These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Barge Fairy Tale

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#2721 - 2012-08-06 16:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lilianna Star
Herr Wilkus wrote:


Aside from your multiple factual errors, you are missing the point.

Ganking was a method - the only method - of punishing players for botting and AFKing in highsec.
This threat - the ONLY threat - miners faced is now getting a major nerf.

Result, bots and AFKers with have it easier than ever.
Some (rich) gankers may continue, but many cannot afford to throw away hundreds of millions for a single popped barge.
And almost nobody ganks targets if it costs more in hulls to kill than the target is worth.

As it is, ice botters just shrug and buy a new Mack. Now they won't even have to do that. And seeing as how Screegs has gone back into hibernation....there will be no way to combat them outside of the petition process.


Okay then, why is this a problem?

It's not taking away any depth since this kind of decision making is still present in low and null sec. It just looks like you're trying to dictate how high sec miners should play.

Your entire argument seems to hinge on the idea that AFKers and botters are scum and should be purged.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2722 - 2012-08-06 16:46:24 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Ugh, this thread is just a whole load of Derp.

Mineral Prices in High Sec =/= Prices in Null Sec.

Ganking =/= profit killing

Not to mention people who AFK mined before will AFK mine after this. Bots botted before this and will after.

Your not actually punishing them, because if they went AFK then they understand there is the risk of loosing there ship and they will be able to replace it, and botters are not actually people so they won't feel punished by a loss. Both parties will just get another hulk.

Unless your worried that the Hulk market will become glutted due to lack of demand, that's legit I guess.

Funny that you also said my post was full of errors because you didn't point a single one.


Thread is a whole load of Derp is a matter of opinion.

Mineral prices in highsec vs nulsec: pretty obvious point.

Ganking <> profit killing: Ganking is generally done for profit - in fact, that is the motive for most of them.
Ganking miners often is/was profitable as well, though profit in the strictest sense (salvage worth more than expenses) isn't always necessary, as long as the target is losing more than you.

And even a casual reading of this thread reveals that many, many miners expect to be able to AFK mine.
They expect to be able to mine without fitting a tank, either. VV posted page after page arguing this.

And botters are actually people. People who are willing to cheat for a profit, whether its hardcore RMT or just casual subsidizing other activities while doing other things.

And yes, we will see a glut of Hulks because I think the 50K EHP AFK-Mackinaw will be the wave of the future. Ganks will be fairly far and few between when gankers realize 2-3 Tornados or a gang of 5+ Catalysts in 0.7-0.8 space is just not cost/time effective for bothering with a 280M ISK ship, AFK or otherwise.
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#2723 - 2012-08-06 16:48:14 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Ugh, this thread is just a whole load of Derp.

Mineral Prices in High Sec =/= Prices in Null Sec.

Ganking =/= profit killing

Not to mention people who AFK mined before will AFK mine after this. Bots botted before this and will after.

Your not actually punishing them, because if they went AFK then they understand there is the risk of loosing there ship and they will be able to replace it, and botters are not actually people so they won't feel punished by a loss. Both parties will just get another hulk.

Unless your worried that the Hulk market will become glutted due to lack of demand, that's legit I guess.

Funny that you also said my post was full of errors because you didn't point a single one.


Thread is a whole load of Derp is a matter of opinion.

Mineral prices in highsec vs nulsec: pretty obvious point.

Ganking <> profit killing: Ganking is generally done for profit - in fact, that is the motive for most of them.
Ganking miners often is/was profitable as well, though profit in the strictest sense (salvage worth more than expenses) isn't always necessary, as long as the target is losing more than you.

And even a casual reading of this thread reveals that many, many miners expect to be able to AFK mine.
They expect to be able to mine without fitting a tank, either. VV posted page after page arguing this.

And botters are actually people. People who are willing to cheat for a profit, whether its hardcore RMT or just casual subsidizing other activities while doing other things.

And yes, we will see a glut of Hulks because I think the 50K EHP AFK-Mackinaw will be the wave of the future. Ganks will be fairly far and few between when gankers realize 2-3 Tornados or a gang of 5+ Catalysts in 0.7-0.8 space is just not cost/time effective for bothering with a 280M ISK ship, AFK or otherwise.







If you think this thread is any indicator of what Miners through out this game will do, you are very deluded.


Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2724 - 2012-08-06 16:52:28 UTC
Previously on “Tanks of Our Hulks: The Mining Barge Buff Story”

***

“…And it is with this that I, CCP Soundwave, decree that from this moment on, no Hulk shall be ganked for profit - ever again!

*Rabble! Rabble! Rabble!*

***

“Did yeah hear Joe, they say not no one ever gonna gank a barge again!”

“Ahhh doe worry lil’ Tommy, CCP wouldn’t ever let us down like dat…”

“Oh yeah, well maybe you should take a look at the forums…”

***

“…Admiral, if they go through with this, Highsec ganking will be dead as we know it.”

“My god, the bots… Jenkins, get me the Mitanni!”

“Aye aye Sir!”

***

“Order! Order! I will have order in my courtroom! Now continue Mr. Munroe…”

“If the people will your honor, Article 21, Section 12 strictly states that “Ganking” and “Griefing” are viewed as distinct and separate entities in the eyes of the EULA. And that…”

*Masked man pulls a gun and fires two shots into the lawyers chest; Hysteric screams ensue.*

***

“Its total anarchy out there Mr. Matanni, we have to get you to the safe house!”

“I will not abandon my people in their time of need! Now more than ever they need the guidance of a strong leader…”

*A brick bounces off the window of the motorcade, leaving fractures in the glass*

“And what if that strong leader isn’t you, sir..?”

“...Then all hope is lost…”

***

And Now...

Hows my posting? Call 1-800-747-7633 to leave feedback.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2725 - 2012-08-06 16:56:51 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:


If you think this thread is any indicator of what Miners through out this game will do, you are very deluded.



Hardly. I am well aware of miner's shortcomings when it comes to fittings, and general game awareness.
There will be a fair number of 'legacy' hulks/Macks out there with Cargo Expanders.

But I expect those numbers to drop quite a bit as the low-hanging fruit is stripped, as even the dullest miner will quickly figure out that the Ore Bay is not effected by Cargo Expanders.

And most of the buff (as I noted in the OP) cleverly was done in a way that makes ganking far more expensive - while not requiring miners to make a single fitting adjustment - or even be aware of the patch at all.
(ie, massive amounts of EHP slapped directly to the hull, rather than a slot/PG/CPU buff...)
Pipa Porto
#2726 - 2012-08-06 19:56:49 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:

If you think this thread is any indicator of what Miners through out this game will do, you are very deluded.


The Bat Country Killboard is an indicator of how many Hulk pilots don't bother to fit a tank while AFK.

My experience has been that I can usually warp to a Hulk, have ~2-3 Cats slowboat into perfect range, target, then countdown so we fire at the same time, all with no reaction whatsoever from the untanked Hulk pilot. (and then sometimes even kill the Pod as well) I assume that means they're AFK.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
pussnheels
Viziam
#2727 - 2012-08-07 07:13:49 UTC
why is the OP still allowed to post his junk
It is obvious he is not capable of anything beyond griefing others with battleclinic fits and then dare to call it PVP

He is the kind of people that is killing this game , not the profesional ganker not the lowsec pirates not the nullsec pvper nor the carebear
People like him who only thoughts of the day is to ruin somebody else his or her playing experience by demanding that it his divine right to do so and his alone

He called us pigs , i call him a egocentric arrogant selfish noob who is unable to learn something more complex than blowing up things that can't shoot back

CCP he is not the majority of your subscribers far from they are a minority only a very small minority but a loud one don't listen to them if it was up to them ythis game would be only a arcade game with only one playstyle and that is to shoot others when they can't shoot back

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2728 - 2012-08-07 07:53:02 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:

If you think this thread is any indicator of what Miners through out this game will do, you are very deluded.

The Bat Country Killboard is an indicator of how many Hulk pilots don't bother to fit a tank while AFK.

My experience has been that I can usually warp to a Hulk, have ~2-3 Cats slowboat into perfect range, target, then countdown so we fire at the same time, all with no reaction whatsoever from the untanked Hulk pilot. (and then sometimes even kill the Pod as well) I assume that means they're AFK.

Good pods?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2729 - 2012-08-07 07:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
pussnheels wrote:
why is the OP still allowed to post his junk
It is obvious he is not capable of anything beyond griefing others with battleclinic fits and then dare to call it PVP

He is the kind of people that is killing this game , not the profesional ganker not the lowsec pirates not the nullsec pvper nor the carebear
People like him who only thoughts of the day is to ruin somebody else his or her playing experience by demanding that it his divine right to do so and his alone

He called us pigs , i call him a egocentric arrogant selfish noob who is unable to learn something more complex than blowing up things that can't shoot back

CCP he is not the majority of your subscribers far from they are a minority only a very small minority but a loud one don't listen to them if it was up to them ythis game would be only a arcade game with only one playstyle and that is to shoot others when they can't shoot back


yeah he can't do anything complex like mining

let me tell you, figuring out what crystals to load and what rocks to grind out is deep

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Pipa Porto
#2730 - 2012-08-07 07:55:24 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:

If you think this thread is any indicator of what Miners through out this game will do, you are very deluded.

The Bat Country Killboard is an indicator of how many Hulk pilots don't bother to fit a tank while AFK.

My experience has been that I can usually warp to a Hulk, have ~2-3 Cats slowboat into perfect range, target, then countdown so we fire at the same time, all with no reaction whatsoever from the untanked Hulk pilot. (and then sometimes even kill the Pod as well) I assume that means they're AFK.

Good pods?


Eh. I think they may have finally learned that leaving Michi's in an AFK Hulk is stupid.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2731 - 2012-08-07 07:55:26 UTC
Buff pods. Tiericide them and give us different options, as well as more fitting options. I am tired of going AFK and someone pods me.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2732 - 2012-08-07 07:56:06 UTC
rodyas wrote:
I am tired of going AFK and someone pods me.


maybe you shouldn't go AFK

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Pipa Porto
#2733 - 2012-08-07 07:56:58 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Buff pods. Tiericide them and give us different options, as well as more fitting options. I am tired of going AFK and someone pods me.


Don't go AFK in your lifeboat.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2734 - 2012-08-07 08:00:57 UTC
Its entirely the fault that single play pods bring. Only one option, and only one option to fly them. By actually looking at the screen and clicking buttons. I need one with armor/bigger fluid hold to support my body, from the heavy duress AFK puts me in.

Would AFKing in a shuttle help? What do I have to AFK in before I get respect?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Pipa Porto
#2735 - 2012-08-07 08:02:50 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Its entirely the fault that single play pods bring. Only one option, and only one option to fly them. By actually looking at the screen and clicking buttons. I need one with armor/bigger fluid hold to support my body, from the heavy duress AFK puts me in.

Would AFKing in a shuttle help? What do I have to AFK in before I get respect?


AFK in a Damnation.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2736 - 2012-08-07 08:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
pussnheels wrote:
why is the OP still allowed to post his junk
It is obvious he is not capable of anything beyond griefing others with battleclinic fits and then dare to call it PVP



Oh, I don't know about that. Last time I posted about 'griefing' CCP had to emergency patch the game and buff Concord again. But you know, thats what happens when gankers adapt to adverse conditions. Patches and nerfs.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#2737 - 2012-08-07 08:04:20 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
why is the OP still allowed to post his junk
It is obvious he is not capable of anything beyond griefing others with battleclinic fits and then dare to call it PVP

Oh, I don't know about that. Last time I posted about 'griefing' CCP had to emergency patch the game and buff Concord again.

My my, that sounds like a powerful weapon.

Don't use it for evil.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2738 - 2012-08-07 08:05:29 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
why is the OP still allowed to post his junk
Why wouldn't he be?

Quote:
CCP he is not the majority of your subscribers far from
…so tell me, what is the majority of the subscribers, according to you?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2739 - 2012-08-07 08:06:50 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
why is the OP still allowed to post his junk
It is obvious he is not capable of anything beyond griefing others with battleclinic fits and then dare to call it PVP

Oh, I don't know about that. Last time I posted about 'griefing' CCP had to emergency patch the game and buff Concord again.

My my, that sounds like a powerful weapon.

Don't use it for evil.


He already is evil.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2740 - 2012-08-07 08:10:48 UTC
Tippia wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
why is the OP still allowed to post his junk
Why wouldn't he be?

Quote:
CCP he is not the majority of your subscribers far from
…so tell me, what is the majority of the subscribers, according to you?


Carebears, and afk miners, as well as poor people, who wanted technetium. As well as a bunch of people to stupid to use a badly designed feature as well as the feature being equally dumb. Blind leading the blind.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne