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Barge Fairy Tale

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Pipa Porto
#2701 - 2012-08-06 04:37:29 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Now if the buffed ship is somehow able to now go about ganking ~profitably~. Like, you know, the Catalyst buff. Maybe some Amarr BC will become the top ganking ship (with lazerzzzz)


In case you didn't know Amarr ships are only good for showing off (statue shooting and such).


Nope.

Quote:

Alavaria Fera wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Balancing Yield with Cargo and EHP? Nope, too hard for miners.
CCP says: we are sick of listening to your whines when you gamble and lose, so we are making those decisions for you.

Oh that's a pity.

Now people won't be cargohold expanding their hulk, but they can still try to cram in the MLUs and use the rig slots for overclocks, right?


In case you didn't know some of the tank setups require ACR rig.


So?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#2702 - 2012-08-06 04:41:26 UTC
rodyas wrote:
And now you are being griefed. Or have been griefed for the last 3.5 years. I don't know why you are complaining, escpecially since the EULA allows you "griefers" to be griefed.



Except that I'm not complaining that I'm being griefed.

I have never once been griefed in this game, nor have I done so to anyone else, nor would I.

Guess what?

Neither have you, unless you can prove that someone is following/harassing you on an extended basis solely for malicious enjoyment, or if an experienced player tried to can-/wreck-bait you in a starter system when you were new.

These are griefing as CCP defines it, and can get a person banned.

What is so hard about this?

The "less-savoury" aspects of EVE play-styles are not griefing, and never were.

Kindly take your other-MMO-informed preconceptions, and put them somewhere far away from this one, please, EVE =/= WoW and clones, nor will it ever.

Next!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#2703 - 2012-08-06 04:52:34 UTC
Quote:
escpecially since the EULA allows you "griefers" to be griefed.


Lets face it, anyone who has both read the EULA AND played the game knows...

1. "Grief Play" is a banable offense.
2. It is at CCP's discretion.
3. CCP bans no one for "grief play"

That being said, eventually there will be a harassment lawsuit because of said policy. While grief play is tolerated, harassment is illegal in most halfway decent places.
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#2704 - 2012-08-06 04:53:11 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
[quote=Pipa Porto]

The sad part?
All this hard work we did, separating the idiots from the clever miners is going right out the window. Some of them were actually learning to make their Exhumers gank-resistant and raking in record ISK.

But now?
All those hard choices? Gone.

Now its 'gee, how much EHP can I squeeze out of this Max-Yield fit?

Balancing Yield with Cargo and EHP? Nope, too hard for miners.
CCP says: we are sick of listening to your whines when you gamble and lose, so we are making those decisions for you.

So CCP makes all miners 'winners' - and crush your income into the mud, as they balance around the lowest common denominator, and AFK mining, 50K EHP Mackinaws flood the zone. Roll


The entire basis for your argument seems to be that they shouldn't be designing mining in high security around the brainless people.

My question is: Why is this a problem?
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#2705 - 2012-08-06 05:12:29 UTC
Lilianna Star wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
[quote=Pipa Porto]

The sad part?
All this hard work we did, separating the idiots from the clever miners is going right out the window. Some of them were actually learning to make their Exhumers gank-resistant and raking in record ISK.

But now?
All those hard choices? Gone.

Now its 'gee, how much EHP can I squeeze out of this Max-Yield fit?

Balancing Yield with Cargo and EHP? Nope, too hard for miners.
CCP says: we are sick of listening to your whines when you gamble and lose, so we are making those decisions for you.

So CCP makes all miners 'winners' - and crush your income into the mud, as they balance around the lowest common denominator, and AFK mining, 50K EHP Mackinaws flood the zone. Roll


The entire basis for your argument seems to be that they shouldn't be designing mining in high security around the brainless people.

My question is: Why is this a problem?


What brainless people?

The only brainless people I have seen in this thread are the ones that think there is some amount of tank one can put on a ship to block any amount of alpha, even though Titans are not even that powerful.
Lilianna Star
Vagrant Empress
#2706 - 2012-08-06 05:15:50 UTC
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:


What brainless people?

The only brainless people I have seen in this thread are the ones that think there is some amount of tank one can put on a ship to block any amount of alpha, even though Titans are not even that powerful.

I don't think anyone is that stupid.

Tank fits are to deter gankers by increasing the cost of said gank.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2707 - 2012-08-06 05:25:19 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
rodyas wrote:
And now you are being griefed. Or have been griefed for the last 3.5 years. I don't know why you are complaining, escpecially since the EULA allows you "griefers" to be griefed.



Except that I'm not complaining that I'm being griefed.

I have never once been griefed in this game, nor have I done so to anyone else, nor would I.

Guess what?

Neither have you, unless you can prove that someone is following/harassing you on an extended basis solely for malicious enjoyment, or if an experienced player tried to can-/wreck-bait you in a starter system when you were new.

These are griefing as CCP defines it, and can get a person banned.

What is so hard about this?

The "less-savoury" aspects of EVE play-styles are not griefing, and never were.

Kindly take your other-MMO-informed preconceptions, and put them somewhere far away from this one, please, EVE =/= WoW and clones, nor will it ever.

Next!


Oh it does seem like we have a vocabulary problem. How smart of you to see it and call it out.

Hm, will be hard to say it now. Lets see, I was equating griefing to ganking, so CCP ganking you when they ignored you and not buffed you at all.

So in a way CCP has been ganking you for 3.5 years. Just how hard it sounded, made me think of griefing, but in the legal sense it is not. So welcome to CCP ignoring you for the next 3.5 years, since that is the EULA at work. (and they are not griefing you)

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#2708 - 2012-08-06 05:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
rodyas wrote:


Oh it does seem like we have a vocabulary problem. How smart of you to see it and call it out.

Hm, will be hard to say it now. Lets see, I was equating griefing to ganking, so CCP ganking you when they ignored you and not buffed you at all.

So in a way CCP has been ganking you for 3.5 years. Just how hard it sounded, made me think of griefing, but in the legal sense it is not. So welcome to CCP ignoring you for the next 3.5 years, since that is the EULA at work. (and they are not griefing you)



Except that ganking isn't griefing.

CCP defines what griefing is, and they have never said "suicide ganking = griefing," in fact just the opposite somewhere, IIRC.

And no, CCP isn't "griefing" us the way you put it, because we will adapt, after some grumbling. That's what proper MMOG sandbox players do. Because, you know, EVE Is Hard (TM), and that's what makes it good.

Except that you lot have just had an easy-button handed to you, which I thought CCP was dealing with (ref.: Blap-Titans nerf, logoff-under-aggro mechanics)?

Something you lot utterly refuse to do, unless you count this now year-plus old Whinge-Baby Jihad(TM) as "adapting." (Hint: It's not.)

As for the gankers?

Bring Kinetics. Lots of it!

E:

Oh, much longer than that, 3.5 years-plus is just my time in EVE.

Long before my time --so grandma tells me, anywayBlink-- you could tank, fight, and destroy CONCORD, although I think that they'd finish you eventually, and escape them through a BLOPs portal (as you can BLOPs bridge from hisec just fine, just not into it.) before CCP hard-coded that out.

It sounds to me like you would have really had something to whinge about then, bru.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2709 - 2012-08-06 05:51:22 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Nope.


Why Amarr ships were only seen in comedy setups in ATX matches?
Every time I see Amarr ship used in large fleets they are shooting their own drones and use 8 different crystals or they are shooting structures (mostly statues).

Pipa Porto wrote:
So?


"Fitting mods and rigs are very bad idea!"
Pipa Porto
#2710 - 2012-08-06 05:55:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Nope.


Why Amarr ships were only seen in comedy setups in ATX matches?
Every time I see Amarr ship used in large fleets they are shooting their own drones and use 8 different crystals or they are shooting structures (mostly statues).

Pipa Porto wrote:
So?


"Fitting mods and rigs are very bad idea!"


Because the AT is a realistic representation of the rest of EVE, which is why you can never have more than one Logistics ship in a fleet normally. Of course.

Hellcats, Slowcats, AHAX. What do these all have in common? They're primarily Amarr fleet comps. What else do they have in common? Dey Gud.

Where did I say fitting mods and rigs are a bad idea?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2711 - 2012-08-06 06:00:47 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
rodyas wrote:


Oh it does seem like we have a vocabulary problem. How smart of you to see it and call it out.

Hm, will be hard to say it now. Lets see, I was equating griefing to ganking, so CCP ganking you when they ignored you and not buffed you at all.

So in a way CCP has been ganking you for 3.5 years. Just how hard it sounded, made me think of griefing, but in the legal sense it is not. So welcome to CCP ignoring you for the next 3.5 years, since that is the EULA at work. (and they are not griefing you)



Except that ganking isn't griefing.

CCP defines what griefing is, and they have never said "suicide ganking = griefing," in fact just the opposite somewhere, IIRC.

And no, CCP isn't "griefing" us the way you put it, because we will adapt, after some grumbling. That's what proper MMOG sandbox players do. Because, you know, EVE Is Hard (TM), and that's what makes it good.

Except that you lot have just had an easy-button handed to you, which I thought CCP was dealing with (ref.: Blap-Titans nerf, logoff-under-aggro mechanics)?

Something you lot utterly refuse to do, unless you count this now year-plus old Whinge-Baby Jihad(TM) as "adapting." (Hint: It's not.)

As for the gankers?

Bring Kinetics. Lots of it!

E:

Oh, much longer than that, 3.5 years-plus is just my time in EVE.

Long before my time --so grandma tells me, anywayBlink-- you could tank, fight, and destroy CONCORD, although I think that they'd finish you eventually, and escape them through a BLOPs portal (as you can BLOPs bridge from hisec just fine, just not into it.) before CCP hard-coded that out.

It sounds to me like you would have really had something to whinge about then, bru.



eh, I 'll take it. The mining barge buff. Sounds better then what you have to do.

Also us just agreeing on vocabulary mistakes, doesn't makes us brus. That takes time, effort, and alot of AFK mining together to make us brus.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2712 - 2012-08-06 06:02:22 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Hellcats


Maels...

Pipa Porto wrote:
AHAX


Ishtars and armor Lokis...
Pipa Porto
#2713 - 2012-08-06 06:08:52 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Hellcats


Maels...

Pipa Porto wrote:
AHAX


Ishtars and armor Lokis...


Ah, no.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#2714 - 2012-08-06 15:13:19 UTC
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
have been taking nerf after nerf after nerf in just my 3.5 years playing, with no sign of let-up anytime soon, with no corresponding buffs.

*cough* crucible changes *cough*
Destroyers had their ROF penalty removed, hybrids got something of a buff and tier 3's came out so your saying that didn't happen? :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2715 - 2012-08-06 15:14:38 UTC
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
have been taking nerf after nerf after nerf in just my 3.5 years playing, with no sign of let-up anytime soon, with no corresponding buffs.

*cough* crucible changes *cough*
Destroyers had their ROF penalty removed, hybrids got something of a buff and tier 3's came out so your saying that didn't happen? :)


Shh, dont show him how adaptable we are.
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#2716 - 2012-08-06 15:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Blastcaps Madullier
Lilianna Star wrote:
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:


What brainless people?

The only brainless people I have seen in this thread are the ones that think there is some amount of tank one can put on a ship to block any amount of alpha, even though Titans are not even that powerful.

I don't think anyone is that stupid.

Tank fits are to deter gankers by increasing the cost of said gank.


Though on occasions they wont care about profit and go for a straight up gank "for fun" like using a Tier 3 BC to burn down a hulk
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#2717 - 2012-08-06 15:23:31 UTC
Ugh, this thread is just a whole load of Derp.

Mineral Prices in High Sec =/= Prices in Null Sec.

Ganking =/= profit killing

Not to mention people who AFK mined before will AFK mine after this. Bots botted before this and will after.

And the sky will be blue, grass will grow, and life will go on.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#2718 - 2012-08-06 15:52:52 UTC
So why is all the focus on the t2 ships?
Is it that the t1s are not worried about or something?
Also from the gankers camp this is my feeling
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg602/NEONOVUS/1343600928428.jpg
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2719 - 2012-08-06 16:06:38 UTC
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Ugh, this thread is just a whole load of Derp.

Mineral Prices in High Sec =/= Prices in Null Sec.

Ganking =/= profit killing

Not to mention people who AFK mined before will AFK mine after this. Bots botted before this and will after.

And the sky will be blue, grass will grow, and life will go on.


Aside from your multiple factual errors, you are missing the point.

Ganking was a method - the only method - of punishing players for botting and AFKing in highsec.
This threat - the ONLY threat - miners faced is now getting a major nerf.

Result, bots and AFKers with have it easier than ever.
Some (rich) gankers may continue, but many cannot afford to throw away hundreds of millions for a single popped barge.
And almost nobody ganks targets if it costs more in hulls to kill than the target is worth.

As it is, ice botters just shrug and buy a new Mack. Now they won't even have to do that. And seeing as how Screegs has gone back into hibernation....there will be no way to combat them outside of the petition process.
Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#2720 - 2012-08-06 16:11:55 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:
Ugh, this thread is just a whole load of Derp.

Mineral Prices in High Sec =/= Prices in Null Sec.

Ganking =/= profit killing

Not to mention people who AFK mined before will AFK mine after this. Bots botted before this and will after.

And the sky will be blue, grass will grow, and life will go on.


Aside from your multiple factual errors, you are missing the point.

Ganking was a method - the only method - of punishing players for botting and AFKing in highsec.
This threat - the ONLY threat - miners faced is now getting a major nerf.

Result, bots and AFKers with have it easier than ever.
Some (rich) gankers may continue, but many cannot afford to throw away hundreds of millions for a single popped barge.
And almost nobody ganks targets if it costs more in hulls to kill than the target is worth.

As it is, ice botters just shrug and buy a new Mack. Now they won't even have to do that. And seeing as how Screegs has gone back into hibernation....there will be no way to combat them outside of the petition process.


Your not actually punishing them, because if they went AFK then they understand there is the risk of loosing there ship and they will be able to replace it, and botters are not actually people so they won't feel punished by a loss. Both parties will just get another hulk.

Unless your worried that the Hulk market will become glutted due to lack of demand, that's legit I guess.

Funny that you also said my post was full of errors because you didn't point a single one.