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Barge Fairy Tale

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Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2621 - 2012-08-02 21:22:39 UTC
highsec mining is low reward, imo it deserves to be low risk. I feel like a small fitting increase and/or slight EHP buff would do, imo it is just silly that a hulk can die to a solo destroyer. okay okay tbh I don't really have much pity for people that don't train any core skills and fit 2 expanders and 2 cargo optimizers. but I just don't buy that the only viable highsec mining fit is nothing but buffer/fitting mods.

and yes a t3 with no tank (and/or gaping resist hole) can die to 1-2 tornado volleys rather easily, but their options for tanking are so much greater than on a hulk.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Dave Stark
#2622 - 2012-08-02 21:27:56 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
highsec mining is low reward, imo it deserves to be low risk. I feel like a small fitting increase and/or slight EHP buff would do, imo it is just silly that a hulk can die to a solo destroyer. okay okay tbh I don't really have much pity for people that don't train any core skills and fit 2 expanders and 2 cargo optimizers. but I just don't buy that the only viable highsec mining fit is nothing but buffer/fitting mods.

and yes a t3 with no tank (and/or gaping resist hole) can die to 1-2 tornado volleys rather easily, but their options for tanking are so much greater than on a hulk.


3rd most profitable ore is a high sec ore. if high sec mining is low reward that just means mining is low reward. not really relevant but i thought it needed pointing out.
Hypercake Mix
#2623 - 2012-08-02 21:36:02 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
okay okay tbh I don't really have much pity for people that don't train any core skills and fit 2 expanders and 2 cargo optimizers.

A new player with a set interest in mining approaches your mining corp. Do you tell him that he needs to make a choice between being useless or being a liability for a month?

I know it's an extreme case, but it sucks when you can't convince people to keep playing EVE for these reasons.
MIrple
Black Sheep Down
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2624 - 2012-08-02 21:44:45 UTC
Hypercake Mix wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
okay okay tbh I don't really have much pity for people that don't train any core skills and fit 2 expanders and 2 cargo optimizers.

A new player with a set interest in mining approaches your mining corp. Do you tell him that he needs to make a choice between being useless or being a liability for a month?

I know it's an extreme case, but it sucks when you can't convince people to keep playing EVE for these reasons.


they can fly a covetor until there secondary skills are up to par. There are always other options for players. Hulk and Exumers are the end of the road mining ships. You are not supposed to fly them in a few weeks
Hypercake Mix
#2625 - 2012-08-02 21:56:20 UTC
MIrple wrote:
they can fly a covetor until there secondary skills are up to par. There are always other options for players. Hulk and Exumers are the end of the road mining ships. You are not supposed to fly them in a few weeks

It was an example of the past.
Pipa Porto
#2626 - 2012-08-02 22:05:10 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
highsec mining is low reward, imo it deserves to be low risk. I feel like a small fitting increase and/or slight EHP buff would do, imo it is just silly that a hulk can die to a solo destroyer. okay okay tbh I don't really have much pity for people that don't train any core skills and fit 2 expanders and 2 cargo optimizers. but I just don't buy that the only viable highsec mining fit is nothing but buffer/fitting mods.

and yes a t3 with no tank (and/or gaping resist hole) can die to 1-2 tornado volleys rather easily, but their options for tanking are so much greater than on a hulk.


Then use the Skiff. It's lower yield (ISK Reward) than the Hulk, and lower cargo (Convenience Reward) than the Mackinaw.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#2627 - 2012-08-02 22:15:25 UTC
Omg they surgically removed the best part of the OP. it isn't even a fairy tale any more. Of course I wasn't literally calling miners "pigs" it was an analogy!!! Now I want to blow my head off too, just like Jim Era.
Hypercake Mix
#2628 - 2012-08-02 22:23:06 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Omg they surgically removed the best part of the OP. it isn't even a fairy tale any more. Of course I wasn't literally calling miners "pigs" it was an analogy!!! Now I want to blow my head off too, just like Jim Era.

Hmm... the first post is kind of lacking now. What?
Knight Cabbage
Doomheim
#2629 - 2012-08-02 22:57:06 UTC
Dave stark wrote:

3rd most profitable ore is a high sec ore. if high sec mining is low reward that just means mining is low reward. not really relevant but i thought it needed pointing out.


I doubt it would be smart to balance the mining ships around skewed minerals market. If ore in high is more profitable than in low/null then the economy needs a fix not the EHP of mining barges.
Dave Stark
#2630 - 2012-08-02 23:01:56 UTC
Knight Cabbage wrote:
Dave stark wrote:

3rd most profitable ore is a high sec ore. if high sec mining is low reward that just means mining is low reward. not really relevant but i thought it needed pointing out.


I doubt it would be smart to balance the mining ships around skewed minerals market. If ore in high is more profitable than in low/null then the economy needs a fix not the EHP of mining barges.


even without a skewed mineral market, the different secs need looking at in regards to mining.

right now there's absolutely no reason to mine in low sec what so ever. the minerals in low sec are worth the least [granted more of an economy issue than anything else] however it's also the most dangerous. afaik low sec does not have industry indexes like the null sec systems so there's no guaranteed grav sites which are safer to mine in because they have to be scanned down, nor can you put bubbles on gates to give you extra time to get to safety when there's a +1 in local, nor do you have concord around to protect you.

in short low sec is a high risk practically bugger all reward place to mine and that needs looking at imo.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#2631 - 2012-08-03 01:00:51 UTC
'CSM Meeting Minutes' wrote:
Before moving on CCP Ytterbium asked if there were any concerns, and Two step did raise one: the HP of Barges. With Destroyers being buffed, Two step was worried that it would make Barges more vulnerable to small ships. Two step said that Tornados suiciding Barges was acceptable, but buffed Destroyers doing the same would be bad.

CCP Soundwave and CCP Ytterbium both agreed that an HP buff for Barges was well within reason.

CCP Soundwave: “I like suicide ganking, but I don’t like the risk-reward where it is now. You should be able to kill anyone anywhere, but not that cheap.”


If you like it or don't like it you can thank Two Step for bringing it up TwistedTwisted

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2632 - 2012-08-03 03:55:36 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Omg they surgically removed the best part of the OP. it isn't even a fairy tale any more. Of course I wasn't literally calling miners "pigs" it was an analogy!!! Now I want to blow my head off too, just like Jim Era.


“Is CCP trying to save stupid pigs from themselves?” We are attempting to give the pigs in question a chance to react and chose a path other that the one leading to the slaughterhouse. It doesn’t change the fact the slaughterhouse still exists, that there still a path to it, and that this path is very easy to fall into, even after the changes.

At least one last shred of magical fairy tale survived the fairy tale like purging of the ISD. And now to say something productive.

I kind of wish fitting options were discussed with the barges a bit perhaps. It seems they filled the roles nicely, maybe it won't be too bad though. I would almost prefere ike hybrid modules. A DCU that also gives ike 2-3% mining amount bonus. Sometimes you go full tank, and no one ganks, makes me feel dumb.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2633 - 2012-08-03 04:05:01 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
highsec mining is low reward, imo it deserves to be low risk. I feel like a small fitting increase and/or slight EHP buff would do, imo it is just silly that a hulk can die to a solo destroyer. okay okay tbh I don't really have much pity for people that don't train any core skills and fit 2 expanders and 2 cargo optimizers. but I just don't buy that the only viable highsec mining fit is nothing but buffer/fitting mods.

and yes a t3 with no tank (and/or gaping resist hole) can die to 1-2 tornado volleys rather easily, but their options for tanking are so much greater than on a hulk.


3rd most profitable ore is a high sec ore. if high sec mining is low reward that just means mining is low reward. not really relevant but i thought it needed pointing out.


for now thanks to hulkageddon plus drone poo nerf, but that should correct itself once the barge buff goes live. and yes historically mining has been pretty awful.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2634 - 2012-08-03 04:10:01 UTC
Hypercake Mix wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
okay okay tbh I don't really have much pity for people that don't train any core skills and fit 2 expanders and 2 cargo optimizers.

A new player with a set interest in mining approaches your mining corp. Do you tell him that he needs to make a choice between being useless or being a liability for a month?

I know it's an extreme case, but it sucks when you can't convince people to keep playing EVE for these reasons.


I'd accept them and pod them as my mining corp is just a front for killing noobs obviously Roll

slightly more seriously: at the very least they can fly cheaper ships or fit a buffer, if they just straight up powered through the prereqs for a hulk. and if they said hey I'm 2 weeks old and can fly a battleship I wouldn't want them in my pvp corp either

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2635 - 2012-08-03 04:21:52 UTC
^ What about a new player, you want him to have core skills as well as mining skills, before he can mine with you.

You tell him to set skill queue for two months, with out playing the game.

Tell him to join later, and let him mine noobily and get ganked easily.

Tell him, yes this game does suck, and you should just skill queue and mostly chat.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
pussnheels
Viziam
#2636 - 2012-08-03 04:46:00 UTC
some of you gankers really are acting as pathetic crybabies
you are acting like this is the end of the universe , all because now you have to work a bit harder to gank your favorite victims
Screaming loud that this is the end of all pvp and that it will crash the economy and promote AFK mining... bah bupkes i say

I am still waiting for a solid answer why people should not be allowed to AFK mine if they wanted to , none of you have answered that
These changes doesn't only affect highsec mining , it will probably turn out to be a huge boost for low sec and especially null sec mining especially with the new skiff stats
and anything that promotes more variation in how people play in nullsec is positive news for all

bet there will be still alot of people mining untanked even in the buffed up ships with a false sense of security
So yes i do not even understand what the problem is besides you guys had your new toy tier 3 BC s last winter, now it is the miners turn
or do you really think that this game is only about ganking exhumers some of you seems to think so

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Pipa Porto
#2637 - 2012-08-03 05:06:11 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ What about a new player, you want him to have core skills as well as mining skills, before he can mine with you.

You tell him to set skill queue for two months, with out playing the game.

Tell him to join later, and let him mine noobily and get ganked easily.

Tell him, yes this game does suck, and you should just skill queue and mostly chat.


Tell him "Grab a Procurer or Skiff while you train up for effective use of the Hulk"

You'll be able to get great EHP out of either a procurer or skiff without much more than Tactical Shield Manipulation 1.

Or grab the Ore Frigate.

Miners are the only group in EVE who seem to take it as a requirement for mining at all that you be perfectly efficient in maximizing your income.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#2638 - 2012-08-03 05:11:25 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
I am still waiting for a solid answer why people should not be allowed to AFK mine if they wanted to , none of you have answered that


There is no reason at all why people should not be allowed to AFK mine if they want to. Luckily, nobody's disallowing them from AFK mining if they want to.

What's happening is that miners are unable to AFK mine safely, and that's simply because the game does not allow anyone to do anything with perfect safety, and being AFK means they have put themselves in a position where they are unable to react to mitigate or avoid threats to their safety, so those threats become easily realized, and BOOM.

The Miners seem to be unable to accept that EVE is not a safe place, so they get upset when their unattended, untanked, 300m piece of equipment gets blown up.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#2639 - 2012-08-03 05:26:26 UTC  |  Edited by: rodyas
Pipa Porto wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ What about a new player, you want him to have core skills as well as mining skills, before he can mine with you.

You tell him to set skill queue for two months, with out playing the game.

Tell him to join later, and let him mine noobily and get ganked easily.

Tell him, yes this game does suck, and you should just skill queue and mostly chat.


Tell him "Grab a Procurer or Skiff while you train up for effective use of the Hulk"

You'll be able to get great EHP out of either a procurer or skiff without much more than Tactical Shield Manipulation 1.

Or grab the Ore Frigate.

Miners are the only group in EVE who seem to take it as a requirement for mining at all that you be perfectly efficient in maximizing your income.


Yeah I forgot about the new mining barges. Mostly asked that question with the older barges in mind. I do see though, that the procurer would be a nice cocoon, for a new player to develop in. Much like a drake I suppose. Especially, with the mining yeild buff. Lots of armor and mining amount for a new player to have, while training other support skills.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Pipa Porto
#2640 - 2012-08-03 06:45:02 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ What about a new player, you want him to have core skills as well as mining skills, before he can mine with you.

You tell him to set skill queue for two months, with out playing the game.

Tell him to join later, and let him mine noobily and get ganked easily.

Tell him, yes this game does suck, and you should just skill queue and mostly chat.


Tell him "Grab a Procurer or Skiff while you train up for effective use of the Hulk"

You'll be able to get great EHP out of either a procurer or skiff without much more than Tactical Shield Manipulation 1.

Or grab the Ore Frigate.

Miners are the only group in EVE who seem to take it as a requirement for mining at all that you be perfectly efficient in maximizing your income.


Yeah I forgot about the new mining barges. Mostly asked that question with the older barges in mind. I do see though, that the procurer would be a nice cocoon, for a new player to develop in. Much like a drake I suppose. Especially, with the mining yeild buff. Lots of armor and mining amount for a new player to have, while training other support skills.


For the current TQ barges, suggest that they use the Retriever and teach them how to effectively pay attention to their surroundings/mine aligned.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto