Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Autocannons are ridiculously easy to fit compared to blasters or pulse lasers.

Minmatar ships have lots of powergrid because of the high PG cost of artillery, but when fitting low cost autocannons, it leaves open an abundant amount of fittings to optimize on tank, propulsion, utility, neuts, etc.

Amarr and Gallente do not have this capability.

The strongest autocannon has lower fitting that middle range pulse lasers and blasters.

Autocannons may do less dps than both, but minmatar ships tend to have double weapon bonuses to compensate for that weakness (double rof and damage bonus).

Autocannons make up for the weaker damage for damage selection. Lasers and Hybrids cannot change their damage types.

For example we have a sleipnir going against and absolution.

The sleipnir has high EM/therm resist while the Absolution has high Exp/Kin resists.

The absolution is stuck with Em/therm and will always be shooting at the sleipnir's highest resists.

The sleipnir can use Phased Plasma or EMP and hit the weakest resists of the Absolution. Doing much more effective dps(the sleipnir already outdpses the Absolution by eft damage alone).

Autocannons gain a massive range bonus from tracking enhancers with 30% falloff bonus.

Pulse lasers have scorch resulting in a long optimal, but very short falloff. The short falloff is a downfall in that pulse will do virtually no damage beyond their optimal.

Autocannons will hit with lesser damage, but regardless hit their target beyond the range of pulse lasers. Barrage 50% falloff bonus on top of 30% tracking enhancer bonus is a big bonus.

So the range difference between Pulses and Autocannons are balanced.

Autocannons have tracking close to blasters, while having many times the range. Pulse lasers suffer from low tracking compared to other short range weapons. Blasters have very short range while only having a small amount more tracking that Autocannons.

Autocannons use no capacitor to fire. Blaster boats and Pulse boats are helpless when neuted.

Last but not least Projectile ammo has a bonus to tracking which is infinitely better than the cap use reduction of hybrid charges and frequency crystals.

TLDR:

Autocannons are superior to other short range guns due to:
-Low fitting costs on minmatar ships with high fitting
-Lower damage weakness negated by minmatar ships with dual weapon dps bonuses
-Selectable Damage Type to do more effective dps than lasers or blasters
-Use no capacitor to fire
-Benefits greatly from tracking enhancers of 30%+ to falloff with 50% bonus with barrage to be able to reach very far
-Very good tracking with good range
-Has ammo has boosts tracking rather than cap usage.

I believe that autocannons should be a model for short range weapons to be balanced around.

Lasers definitely needs a look at after the projectile and hybrid changes.

Blasters could also be given something as well.

When you realize that ACs nearly always engage in their falloff, you'll start understanding the balance.

>double rof

Wait, what?
Show me this ship, please.

Consider that AC can hit (lesser damage, but still damage) targets at ranges that blasters and even pulse cannot.

... with multifreq, maybe. Pulse lasers can hit extreme ranges with other ammo types, whereas ammo barely helps ACs as it benefits optimal instead of falloff.

AC optimal is very close and ships that fit AC are close range brawlers.

If you know the mechanics off falloff, you know this isn't true.

Lets do a comparison.

425mm autocannon II:

2.4km optimal

9.6km falloff


Heavy Pulse Laser II

12km optimal

4km falloff

Max range (range up to where guns start doing no damage)= Optimal + 2x falloff

425mm:

2.4 + 2X(9.6)

2.4+ 19.2 = 21.6

HPL:

12 + 2x(4)

12+8 = 20

425mm will do damage further out than HPL at a small difference, but lets add in some other factors:

Now consider long range short gun ammo and tracking enhancer:

425mm+barrage+TE
2.4(1.15) + 19.2x(1.5x1.3) = 2.76 + 37.44 = 40.2km

HPL+scorch+TE
12(1.15x1.5) + 8x(1.3) = 20.7 + 10.4 =31.1km

As you can see 425mm autocannon will continue to hit and damage the target further out than heavy Pulse laser, heavy pulse laser will do more damage within its range, but 425mm will continue to inflict damage beyond HPL range.

Now consider short range high damage ammo, it becomes interesting:

425mm+emp+TE

2.4(1.15x.5) + 19.2x(1.3)=1.38 + 24.95 = 26.34 km

HPL + Multifreq + TE

12(1.15 x .5) + 8x(1.3) = 6.9 + 10.4 = 17.3 km

Autocannons only receive a very small penalty to using short range ammo compared to Heavy Pulse Laser.

Autocannons using short range ammo will greatly outrange Pulse lasers using short range.


Range is balanced in a sense.

That Tracking Enhancers give +30% falloff is the main reason why autocannons are so effective. With a couple, they are encroaching on Scorch territory in terms of mid range dps. A Tracking Enhancer will boost Barrage dps more than a Gyrostabilizer across most of falloff range. It's just wrong. Lasers have so many downsides to compensate for their good damage projection, and then autocannons get to be almost as good while having every imaginable advantage too! The Tracking Enhancer should be reduced to +15% falloff.

The other thing which in my opinion isn't right is ease of fitting. This is what allows things like Sleipnirs with XL-ASBs, Hurricanes with 2x medium neuts on top of a standard fit, 1600mm Ruptures with MWD that needs no fitting mods, etc. Autocannons aren't that bad anymore to deserve such low fitting requirements.

PS: the Heavy Pulse Laser is not the right turret to compare to a 425mm Autocannon, the Focused Medium Pulse Laser is the closest equivalent.

How do you figure that? What metric are you using to compare the two? Not all races have three of every turret.

I have a question.

Why would an Amarr ship use a TE over a TC?

Generally, if I want range, I would fit a TC with an optimal script. I think that makes the gap much closer.



Also, the damage output at that range for autos would be pitiful.