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CCP - promoting AFK mining and botting with the new barges.
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Pipa Porto
#381 - 2012-07-27 17:11:09 UTC
Aya Hekki wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
A Tanked Hulk cannot be profitably ganked in HS.


Nobody cares. IF this were true, it's by design. But it's not true. You're a liar, and you know it.

10 T1 fit Catalysts run in the ~30mil ISK range and they would have NO problem destroying ANY hulk with ANY fit in ANY security level. You can reasonably expect that a "tanked hulk" including salvage will drop north of 30mil ISK.

So, therefore, depending on RNG, a tanked Hulk CAN be profitably ganked in HS.


A Hulk drops an average of 15m Isk in salvage and an average of 15m (half of it's 30m in fittings) in loot. That's it.

Yes, if you are lucky, you can get 45m. If you are unlucky you can get 0.

The average is right around 30m.

An average breakeven for 2.5 man hours of work is hardly what I call profitable.


if a person gets even 1 isk/hour for ganking then it still is profitable,
you should be losing isk to kill someone in high sec, ganking shouldn't be a profession, it is done for fun as many stated before.

Edit : of course untanked lol hulk fits is always free to make a profit off of them, those aren't the ones iam talking about.


The cheapest possible gank with TEN people working on it results in a wash as far as profit. And this assumes that the miner is in a .5 system (go to a .7 or .8 and you have a decided loss unless you include 30+ velators).

Realistic ganks with 3-5 people are decidedly a loss for the gankers.

Well guess what, the new buffs let miners fit loltanks (with 2MLUs) to their hulks and still be decidedly unprofitable to gank.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#382 - 2012-07-27 17:20:26 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
The cheapest possible gank with TEN people working on it results in a wash as far as profit. And this assumes that the miner is in a .5 system (go to a .7 or .8 and you have a decided loss unless you include 30+ velators).


T2 fit Catalyst -> 15 Velators

Those Velators do quite a lot more damage (90+30 dps / Velator)
Pipa Porto
#383 - 2012-07-27 17:22:08 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
The cheapest possible gank with TEN people working on it results in a wash as far as profit. And this assumes that the miner is in a .5 system (go to a .7 or .8 and you have a decided loss unless you include 30+ velators).


T2 fit Catalyst -> 15 Velators

Those Velators do quite a lot more damage (90+30 dps / Velator)


T2 drones totally throw out the cost benefit of using Velators.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#384 - 2012-07-27 17:23:33 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Dave stark wrote:


Quote:
Thats what happens when you fail to fit a tank and then fit mods which reduce it.


you say it like it's impossible to gank a tanked hulk.


Bring enough catalysts and you can gank the veldnought.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#385 - 2012-07-27 17:24:01 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
T2 drones totally throw out the cost benefit of using Velators.


30 dps is quite low for two T2 drones... Yeah, T1.
Suqq Madiq
#386 - 2012-07-27 17:30:02 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
A Tanked Hulk cannot be profitably ganked in HS.


Nobody cares. IF this were true, it's by design. But it's not true. You're a liar, and you know it.

10 T1 fit Catalysts run in the ~30mil ISK range and they would have NO problem destroying ANY hulk with ANY fit in ANY security level. You can reasonably expect that a "tanked hulk" including salvage will drop north of 30mil ISK.

So, therefore, depending on RNG, a tanked Hulk CAN be profitably ganked in HS.


Have fun splitting the 2mil isk profit with 9 other people & convincing them that this is the best way to make isk.


It's not the best way to make ISK. It's not designed to be profitable. IF you manage to scrape ANY kind of profit you've done more than you were intended to do. Congrats. GANKING ISN'T A PROFESSION. Get it?
Pipa Porto
#387 - 2012-07-27 17:31:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
T2 drones totally throw out the cost benefit of using Velators.


30 dps is quite low for two T2 drones... Yeah, T1.


Ok, so it's 120 DPS total.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Suqq Madiq
#388 - 2012-07-27 17:32:22 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
An average breakeven for 2.5 man hours of work is hardly what I call profitable.


Too bad. It's not supposed to be profitable. It CAN be done profitably if you chose the right systems to do it in, but profit is not guaranteed, nor should it be.
Aya Hekki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#389 - 2012-07-27 17:32:57 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

The cheapest possible gank with TEN people working on it results in a wash as far as profit. And this assumes that the miner is in a .5 system (go to a .7 or .8 and you have a decided loss unless you include 30+ velators).

Realistic ganks with 3-5 people are decidedly a loss for the gankers.

Well guess what, the new buffs let miners fit loltanks (with 2MLUs) to their hulks and still be decidedly unprofitable to gank.


not true one bit, semi tanked new hulks that favor yield will still be profitable to gank with **** fit cats, just add a couple more.

oh and by the way, whats wrong with being able to fit 2MLUs with a semi decent tank? isnt this how we fit all of our ships?
again , the ones i mean by "lol" fit hulks are the ones that leaves all their med slots Empty.. not the ones that try to balance the fit, those you shouldn't be able to profit off of them in high sec, unless they fit officer modules or something.

Exactly like missioning marauders, why people dont gank the good tank full gank Vargurs in high sec when it is fit with T2 stuff?
obviously it is not profitable, but when someone fits overexpensive **** in his mission runner, it is then a viable gank material. some people still go for normal T2 fit marauders just for the fun and the challenge.

That's what i want the Miner vessels to be like.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#390 - 2012-07-27 17:33:44 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
T2 drones totally throw out the cost benefit of using Velators.


30 dps is quite low for two T2 drones... Yeah, T1.


Ok, so it's 120 DPS total.


15 * 120 = 1800
Pipa Porto
#391 - 2012-07-27 17:34:16 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
A Tanked Hulk cannot be profitably ganked in HS.


Nobody cares. IF this were true, it's by design. But it's not true. You're a liar, and you know it.

10 T1 fit Catalysts run in the ~30mil ISK range and they would have NO problem destroying ANY hulk with ANY fit in ANY security level. You can reasonably expect that a "tanked hulk" including salvage will drop north of 30mil ISK.

So, therefore, depending on RNG, a tanked Hulk CAN be profitably ganked in HS.


Have fun splitting the 2mil isk profit with 9 other people & convincing them that this is the best way to make isk.


It's not the best way to make ISK. It's not designed to be profitable. IF you manage to scrape ANY kind of profit you've done more than you were intended to do. Congrats. GANKING ISN'T A PROFESSION. Get it?


Ganking's been a profession since the m0o camp in 2003.

Usually it's Freighters. Then someone noticed that Hulk pilots tend to be to lazy to fit a tank.

You fit a tank or take active measures to protect your Hulk and you cannot be profitably ganked (except maybe by ~30 velators in a .5 system).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Suqq Madiq
#392 - 2012-07-27 17:38:20 UTC
When GOONS undock a fleet of 500 Drakes to blot out the sun are they thinking "Hmm, I hope I make some profit from this."? No, they don't, nor should they.

When RVB undocks a fleet of 100 Rifters, Merlins and Incursus to hunt each other down are they thinking "Welp, I sure hope I can profit from undocking." No, they don't, nor should they.

When PL drops a fleet of Supercaps into Amamake on an unsuspecting Eve University blob, do they think "Damn, can't wait to farm all that Eve Uni ISK."? No, they don't, nor should they.

That's PVP in EVE. PVP isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances, but if making ISK is among your primary concerns when you engage in PVP you're doing it wrong.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#393 - 2012-07-27 17:39:36 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
GANKING ISN'T A PROFESSION. Get it?


Not only is it a profession but is has been one for 9 years now.
Aya Hekki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#394 - 2012-07-27 17:40:18 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
When GOONS undock a fleet of 500 Drakes to blot out the sun are they thinking "Hmm, I hope I make some profit from this."? No, they don't, nor should they.

When RVB undocks a fleet of 100 Rifters, Merlins and Incursus to hunt each other down are they thinking "Welp, I sure hope I can profit from undocking." No, they don't, nor should they.

When PL drops a fleet of Supercaps into Amamake on an unsuspecting Eve University blob, do they think "Damn, can't wait to farm all that Eve Uni ISK."? No, they don't, nor should they.

That's PVP in EVE. PVP isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances, but if making ISK is among your primary concerns when you engage in PVP you're doing it wrong.


Spot on!!
exactly what I'm trying to say for awhile now .
Suqq Madiq
#395 - 2012-07-27 17:41:24 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ganking's been a profession since the m0o camp in 2003.

Usually it's Freighters. Then someone noticed that Hulk pilots tend to be to lazy to fit a tank.

You fit a tank or take active measures to protect your Hulk and you cannot be profitably ganked (except maybe by ~30 velators in a .5 system).


In case you hadn't noticed, the game has changed a bit since 2003. Ganking isn't a profession. It's a pastime. The game evolved, why can't gankers do the same?

Profitability doesn't matter. Ganking isn't designed to be profitable. CCP Soundwave clued you in days ago. It's a false construct in your own mind. Keep beating that dead horse. You totally don't sound like a broken record.
Pipa Porto
#396 - 2012-07-27 17:43:31 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
That's PVP in EVE. PVP isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances, but if making ISK is among your primary concerns when you engage in PVP you're doing it wrong.


Yes. Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#397 - 2012-07-27 17:44:21 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ganking's been a profession since the m0o camp in 2003.

Usually it's Freighters. Then someone noticed that Hulk pilots tend to be to lazy to fit a tank.

You fit a tank or take active measures to protect your Hulk and you cannot be profitably ganked (except maybe by ~30 velators in a .5 system).


In case you hadn't noticed, the game has changed a bit since 2003. Ganking isn't a profession. It's a pastime. The game evolved, why can't gankers do the same?

Profitability doesn't matter. Ganking isn't designed to be profitable. CCP Soundwave clued you in days ago. It's a false construct in your own mind. Keep beating that dead horse. You totally don't sound like a broken record.


It may not be designed to be profitable, but people sure do go out of their way to make it profitable ganking them.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#398 - 2012-07-27 17:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Suqq Madiq wrote:


In case you hadn't noticed, the game has changed a bit since 2003. Ganking isn't a profession. It's a pastime. The game evolved, why can't gankers do the same?

Profitability doesn't matter. Ganking isn't designed to be profitable. CCP Soundwave clued you in days ago. It's a false construct in your own mind. Keep beating that dead horse. You totally don't sound like a broken record.


People make billion on killing fools who fit less tank than they are worth. We fingured out how to make a profit from ganking barges and made billions on the backs of the stupid.

Ganking will contine so long as people fly stupid. Its not like we were hard to counter...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#399 - 2012-07-27 17:47:37 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Suicide ganking isn't always profitable. It can be, under the right circumstances.


Nerfing Hulk's tank just isn't the way.
Soundwave Plays Diablo
Doomheim
#400 - 2012-07-27 17:47:42 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
Might as well hand them golden tickets because the new barges are exactly the kind of ships AFK miners and botters will appreciate. My question is...

Why are you promoting AFK mining and botting CCP?



No. Disambiguate between afk miners and botters.

AFK miners wont get ****.

CCP sreegs kicks botters asses daily. He is without question my favorite dev next to Soundwave. Witty and does an excellent job. To say they are promoting botting is silly.