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Initial mining barge changes are on the test server
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Alexzandvar Douglass
Motiveless Malignity
Deepwater Hooligans
#421 - 2012-08-06 13:24:02 UTC
ITT: People who think that high sec mining will effect low sec prices. Derp.

Why do you think Trit can get so expensive in null? Or Mex? or Pyrite?

It's because builders need a lot of all of those things and they are really, really, hard to move. This change will not suddenly make it profitable to waste hundreds of millions in fuel just to bring down some cheap trit.
Miranda Starborn
Beehive Technologies
#422 - 2012-08-06 15:45:34 UTC
Zack Cordell wrote:
OK, so I built some Ice Harvester Rigs last night on SiSi and took my max yield Ice Miner (with a Yeti IH-1005) and maxed out Orca support into the ice field and tried a variety of ships.


Did you use the Mining Foreman Mindlink as well?
Miranda Starborn
Beehive Technologies
#423 - 2012-08-06 16:27:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Miranda Starborn
Dave stark wrote:
i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's.


If one only looks at game mechanic I would say one cycle would be fair enough, but I see an ergonomic reason for a hulk to be able to fit more than one cycle: with only one cycle to fit the monotonic hand movements will increase with at least a factor of 2 to 3. This will cause an significant increased stress on the mouse hand. I am aware this does not matter if you just mine for an hour or two, but for any extensive mining op this will make a significant difference.
Dave Stark
#424 - 2012-08-06 17:50:13 UTC
Miranda Starborn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i just don't see the point in having an ore bay bigger than 1 cycle if it's not going to be able to fit 2 cycles of ore. there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's.


If one only looks at game mechanic I would say one cycle would be fair enough, but I see an ergonomic reason for a hulk to be able to fit more than one cycle: with only one cycle to fit the monotonic hand movements will increase with at least a factor of 2 to 3. This will cause an significant increased stress on the mouse hand. I am aware this does not matter if you just mine for an hour or two, but for any extensive mining op this will make a significant difference.


if you think moving a cycle of ore every 100-180 seconds is stressful on your hand then... i have no words for that.
Miranda Starborn
Beehive Technologies
#425 - 2012-08-06 20:08:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Miranda Starborn
Dave stark wrote:
if you think moving a cycle of ore every 100-180 seconds is stressful on your hand then... i have no words for that.


Do you know this or do you just "think" it does not induce stress in the hand?
Pipa Porto
#426 - 2012-08-06 20:19:35 UTC
Miranda Starborn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
if you think moving a cycle of ore every 100-180 seconds is stressful on your hand then... i have no words for that.


Have you tried done that for a longer period of time?


Every other PvE activity in EVE requires you to click more often than that. If it's a problem for you, use a Mackinaw.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Miranda Starborn
Beehive Technologies
#427 - 2012-08-06 20:30:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Miranda Starborn
Pipa Porto wrote:
Every other PvE activity in EVE requires you to click more often than that.


It is not about the frequency how often you do it but the monotonic repetitive motions and the duration that matters. And if if you then increase the repetitive motion with a factor of 3 that means you significantly decrease the duration before an inflammatory response occurs.

Pipa Porto wrote:
If it's a problem for you, use a Mackinaw.


The problem is that the hulk is supposed to have a role in fleet operation with these changes, but now you seams to suggest the hulk has no role at all?

And as an addition note, I have already start consider to switch to Mack as ore mining vessel due to this, but thanks for the advice anyway.
Miranda Starborn
Beehive Technologies
#428 - 2012-08-06 21:01:01 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
if you think moving a cycle of ore every 100-180 seconds is stressful on your hand then... i have no words for that.


In your OP you wrote " there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's."

But what reason exist to increase it then?
Zack Cordell
d'Bastard Industries
#429 - 2012-08-06 21:03:32 UTC
Miranda Starborn wrote:
Zack Cordell wrote:
OK, so I built some Ice Harvester Rigs last night on SiSi and took my max yield Ice Miner (with a Yeti IH-1005) and maxed out Orca support into the ice field and tried a variety of ships.


Did you use the Mining Foreman Mindlink as well?


Most certainly did.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#430 - 2012-08-06 21:09:19 UTC
I haven't had time to read the whole thread yet, so I apologize if this question has already been answered, but: is the new ORE mining frigate going to make it into this update?
Dave Stark
#431 - 2012-08-06 21:23:05 UTC
Miranda Starborn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
if you think moving a cycle of ore every 100-180 seconds is stressful on your hand then... i have no words for that.


In your OP you wrote " there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's."

But what reason exist to increase it then?


i did? i'll take your word for that.

just because i said there's no reason why it shouldn't doesn't mean i think it should.
to be honest, the ore bay in the hulk is irrelevant as long as it's over 6k m3 or so to hold one cycle of ore from synced strips.
Amber Solaire
COMA Holdings
Cosmic Maniacs
#432 - 2012-08-06 21:42:28 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
i appreciate they want to keep the cargo space to 8k, which is fine. however i'd like to see them move more space away from the ore bay back to regular cargo. keep the ore bay big enough for 1 fully maxed out cycle then the rest of the space for regular cargo because as another person pointed out; there isn't enough room for a full compliment of crystals, especially with 3 strips.

Ditto

As it is, you can have 10+3 crystals. So, you can have crystals for 3 ores with a spare each and one more extra or crystals for 4 ores and one spare (or singleton ore).

I wonder if they will remove my rigs for me, or if I'll have some extra room?

I've used cargo rigs to get my cargo space over two cycles worth of yield, but the lows are used for MLU2s.

BTW, does the Ore hold mean I can stash my mining barge in the SMB without emptying the ore out? I've managed to sneak extra PI stuff around by putting it in the PI bay of the Primae and carrying it around before.

Drox



try fitting t2 crystalsRoll
Mocktar Olachenko
#433 - 2012-08-06 23:21:03 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
I haven't had time to read the whole thread yet, so I apologize if this question has already been answered, but: is the new ORE mining frigate going to make it into this update?


No, the ORE frigate is slated for the winter expansion for when the current mining frigates get repurposed.
Miranda Starborn
Beehive Technologies
#434 - 2012-08-06 23:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Miranda Starborn
Dave stark wrote:
Miranda Starborn wrote:
In your OP you wrote " there's no reason the hulk shouldn't have an ore bay equal to the skiff's."

But what reason exist to increase it then?


i did? i'll take your word for that.

just because i said there's no rveason why it shouldn't doesn't mean i think it should.
to be honest, the ore bay in the hulk is irrelevant as long as it's over 6k m3 or so to hold one cycle of ore from synced strips.


To be fair your main point in the OP was that either make a cargo bay fit one cycle or two, not something in between as that would not make sense. And then you added above in the end of your comment. That is why I wondered why you thought it would be increased , but I take it from your comment that you just added that line without really consider the implication following from it. However, you now say it is irrelevant what the bay size is. That makes me wonder why you made the OP in the first place then?
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#435 - 2012-08-06 23:59:54 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship... Blink


except if you're not in the support ship's corp you can't access it's corp hangars; nor is this useful if it's providing off-grid boosts due to the dangerous nature of the area you're mining in.

even worse if the support ship is some one's alt and they're focusing on managing other accounts so they can't see your constant nagging for crystal reloads.



Been reading thru the thread and haven't commented yet. But i have to right here.

Before the Hulkagedons I mined 3 Hulks/Bustard (prior to Orca). Orca made my day tbh.

When Hulkagedon became a annual thing, I mined Rokh, APOC, Geddon, with a Orca...You want to complain about managing three hulks? I have to manage 24 Mining Laser 2's (tank fitted ships) and Orca. I wasn't insane enough to fit DCM2's with crystals.

Less accounts, more peeps flying makes life a bit more manageable nowadays.
Pipa Porto
#436 - 2012-08-07 01:10:01 UTC
Miranda Starborn wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Every other PvE activity in EVE requires you to click more often than that.


It is not about the frequency how often you do it but the monotonic repetitive motions and the duration that matters. And if if you then increase the repetitive motion with a factor of 3 that means you significantly decrease the duration before an inflammatory response occurs.


Ever been ratting? Same smell, different color. Any grinding in any MMO is going to have a potential for causing RSI for some people. The cure for that is to not do it if it's causing you injury. (Though, per Wikipedia: "However, the American Society for Surgery of the Hand (ASSH) has issued a statement claiming that the current literature does not support a causal relationship between specific work activities and the development of diseases such as CTS.")

Quote:

Pipa Porto wrote:
If it's a problem for you, use a Mackinaw.


The problem is that the hulk is supposed to have a role in fleet operation with these changes, but now you seams to suggest the hulk has no role at all?

And as an addition note, I have already start consider to switch to Mack as ore mining vessel due to this, but thanks for the advice anyway.


The Role of the Hulk is to mine faster than any other ship if and only if you're willing to put the effort in to allow it to work efficiently.

It fulfills that. If the effort it takes to make it work efficiently is unacceptable to you, use a Mackinaw.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ucankurbaga
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#437 - 2012-08-07 17:37:51 UTC
I haven't had time to check all the threads but I read that Mining barge skill requirements are reduced in developers blog. It says you need Astrogeology III and Mining Barge I. However it doesn't state that you need Industry V. So did they removed the Industry skill requirement from Mining Barges all together?
Infinite Force
#438 - 2012-08-07 17:43:42 UTC
Ucankurbaga wrote:
I haven't had time to check all the threads but I read that Mining barge skill requirements are reduced in developers blog. It says you need Astrogeology III and Mining Barge I. However it doesn't state that you need Industry V. So did they removed the Industry skill requirement from Mining Barges all together?

If they would have made that change, they would have said so.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#439 - 2012-08-07 17:45:04 UTC
industry V is still required

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Pipa Porto
#440 - 2012-08-07 18:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Ucankurbaga wrote:
I haven't had time to check all the threads but I read that Mining barge skill requirements are reduced in developers blog. It says you need Astrogeology III and Mining Barge I. However it doesn't state that you need Industry V. So did they removed the Industry skill requirement from Mining Barges all together?


http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Skills:Mining_Barge

Industry V has never been a pre-req for flying the ship. It's just a pre-req for injecting the Mining Barge skillbook (a subtle, but important difference*).


*This distinction is why, despite needing Advanced Spaceship Command at 5 to inject the Capital Ships skillbook, Carriers don't get the listed benefit from Advanced Spaceship Command. Carriers don't have Adv. Spaceship Command listed as their pre-req, and Adv Spaceship Command only gives a bonus to ships with it as a pre-req.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto