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Initial mining barge changes are on the test server
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Pipa Porto
#281 - 2012-07-28 11:01:19 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
The Hulk should be vulnerable to gankers unless actively flown. It should not be able to tank a gank. That's the Skiff's job.


i'd say that depends entirely upon what's trying to gank it.
a 'nado, or a battleship? sure exhumer wrecks everywhere!
some thing i was given for free in the tutorial? no, not a chance.


You got a T2 fit Catalyst in your tutorial?

It should be profitable to gank a Hulk. Otherwise the tanky ship is worthless.

Bring back insurance and we'll be doing it in Cruisers and BCs. Until then, it's Dessies all the way.


it shouldn't be profitable to gank a hulk; ccp said so.
the size of the ship isn't really the issue, it's the loss incurred by the ganker. in empire space the ganker's loss should be greater than their gain, that's why an exhumer should be able to repel a destroyer. null sec and low sec are for profitable ganks.

nothing is stopping you destroying an exhumer with a bigger ship. of course i'll wager when the profit dries up so does people's motivation to gank.


CCP Soundwave wrote a screamer, didn't he.

The changes are supposed to give the Miners a choice.

CHOOSE to fly a Hulk for Max Yield and accept that you need to use active protection measures to be safe (like an active tanked Tengu, which has less EHP than a Hulk ever had).
CHOOSE to fly a Skiff for Safety and accept a slightly lower yield.

If the Hulk can fit for yield and enough tank that you're not going to be profitably ganked, why would Skiffs get used at all?

There is no reason cost of a ship to have relevance on its survivability, and trying to make it relevant is a terrible idea. CCP should have learned that lesson a long time ago.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#282 - 2012-07-28 11:04:54 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
If the Hulk can fit for yield and enough tank that you're not going to be profitably ganked, why would Skiffs get used at all?.


you're assuming mining only happens in empire space.
Pipa Porto
#283 - 2012-07-28 11:07:45 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If the Hulk can fit for yield and enough tank that you're not going to be profitably ganked, why would Skiffs get used at all?.


you're assuming mining only happens in empire space.


Yeah, in Low/Null/WH, the EHP of a tackled ship that can't shoot back is so very, very important.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#284 - 2012-07-28 11:10:01 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If the Hulk can fit for yield and enough tank that you're not going to be profitably ganked, why would Skiffs get used at all?.


you're assuming mining only happens in empire space.


Yeah, in Low/Null/WH, the EHP of a tackled ship that can't shoot back is so very, very important.


aaand that's why they shouldn't have removed the warp stab bonus
Pipa Porto
#285 - 2012-07-28 11:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If the Hulk can fit for yield and enough tank that you're not going to be profitably ganked, why would Skiffs get used at all?.


you're assuming mining only happens in empire space.


Yeah, in Low/Null/WH, the EHP of a tackled ship that can't shoot back is so very, very important.


aaand that's why they shouldn't have removed the warp stab bonus


aaand how would that affect the value of the Skiff's EHP in Low/Null/WH?

EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#286 - 2012-07-28 11:24:07 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.


Yeah, viable gank target...
Pipa Porto
#287 - 2012-07-28 11:28:32 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.


Yeah, viable gank target...


Where did I say the Skiff should be a viable gank target?

At this point you're not even pretending to try to add to the conversation.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Dave Stark
#288 - 2012-07-28 11:30:49 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If the Hulk can fit for yield and enough tank that you're not going to be profitably ganked, why would Skiffs get used at all?.


you're assuming mining only happens in empire space.


Yeah, in Low/Null/WH, the EHP of a tackled ship that can't shoot back is so very, very important.


aaand that's why they shouldn't have removed the warp stab bonus


aaand how would that affect the value of the Skiff's EHP in Low/Null/WH?

EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.


because it's ehp actually matters if it can avoid being tackled due to wcs...
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#289 - 2012-07-28 11:33:09 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.


Yeah, viable gank target...


Where did I say the Skiff should be a viable gank target?

At this point you're not even pretending to try to add to the conversation.


It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.
Pipa Porto
#290 - 2012-07-28 11:34:39 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

aaand how would that affect the value of the Skiff's EHP in Low/Null/WH?

EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.


because it's ehp actually matters if it can avoid being tackled due to wcs...


No, it's align time does. It's either going to escape, so any EHP past a few volleys of the light tackle isn't relevant, or it's going to get tackled by the rest of the gang, and going to die anyway.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#291 - 2012-07-28 12:13:34 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.


Yeah, viable gank target...


Where did I say the Skiff should be a viable gank target?

At this point you're not even pretending to try to add to the conversation.


It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.


Bitter miner is bitter.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Pipa Porto
#292 - 2012-07-28 12:17:10 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.


Yeah, viable gank target...


Where did I say the Skiff should be a viable gank target?

At this point you're not even pretending to try to add to the conversation.


It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.


Where did I say any of that? Link where I said I'd unsub.

I'm in SniggWaffe down in Delve (FWST-8 II - Blood Raiders Logistic Support). How often do you think I get easy targets there?

Ganking's a little side project that I do on occasion because I find it amusing.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#293 - 2012-07-28 12:56:29 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
EDIT: I want all 3 to be useful in all areas of space. I'm fine giving the Skiff a WCS bonus, but I want it to be a viable HS ship as well.


Yeah, viable gank target...


Where did I say the Skiff should be a viable gank target?

At this point you're not even pretending to try to add to the conversation.


It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.


Where did I say any of that? Link where I said I'd unsub.

I'm in SniggWaffe down in Delve (FWST-8 II - Blood Raiders Logistic Support). How often do you think I get easy targets there?

Ganking's a little side project that I do on occasion because I find it amusing.


That's Goons space. People are always looking ways to get something from Goons. Especially sov.
Pipa Porto
#294 - 2012-07-28 12:59:22 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:

It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.


Where did I say any of that? Link where I said I'd unsub.

I'm in SniggWaffe down in Delve (FWST-8 II - Blood Raiders Logistic Support). How often do you think I get easy targets there?

Ganking's a little side project that I do on occasion because I find it amusing.


That's Goons space. People are always looking ways to get something from Goons. Especially sov.


Link where I said I'd unsub.

So now the Blood Raiders NPC Corp are part of the CFC? Really?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#295 - 2012-07-28 13:01:31 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
So now the Blood Raiders NPC Corp are part of the CFC? Really?


Yes. And in case you didn't know Goons invaded Delve during ATX.
Pipa Porto
#296 - 2012-07-28 13:08:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
So now the Blood Raiders NPC Corp are part of the CFC? Really?


Yes. And in case you didn't know Goons invaded Delve during ATX.


So the Blood Raiders NPC Corp are part of the CFC... OK.

By the way, Look at DOTLAN. GSF doesn't hold any Sov in Delve.

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.


Link Where I said I'd Unsub.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#297 - 2012-07-28 13:30:12 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
By the way, Look at DOTLAN. GSF doesn't hold any Sov in Delve.


TEST = GSF
Pipa Porto
#298 - 2012-07-28 13:34:43 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
By the way, Look at DOTLAN. GSF doesn't hold any Sov in Delve.


TEST = GSF


Nope. And when did the Blood Raiders join the CFC, as you claim?

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.


Link Where I said I'd Unsub.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#299 - 2012-07-28 13:39:38 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
By the way, Look at DOTLAN. GSF doesn't hold any Sov in Delve.


TEST = GSF


Nope. And when did the Blood Raiders join the CFC, as you claim?


During ATX. They had to otherwise Goons would have killed them.
Pipa Porto
#300 - 2012-07-28 13:56:29 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
By the way, Look at DOTLAN. GSF doesn't hold any Sov in Delve.


TEST = GSF


Nope. And when did the Blood Raiders join the CFC, as you claim?


During ATX. They had to otherwise Goons would have killed them.


You don't know who the Blood Raiders are, do you?

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It's all you do in EVE. Only part of EVE that keeps you playing. You will unsub if you don't get your daily easy targets.


Link Where I said I'd Unsub.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto