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Mining barge changes [now with feedback]
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Dave stark
#241 - 2012-07-26 17:10:42 UTC
utility slots won't happen because strip miners don't take turret or launcher slots. hence any utility slot can and will be filled by an extra strip
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#242 - 2012-07-26 17:13:13 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
utility slots won't happen because strip miners don't take turret or launcher slots. hence any utility slot can and will be filled by an extra strip

They already have some mechanism to limit mining, see the 5 gas miner limit.

Drox
Infinite Force
#243 - 2012-07-26 17:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinite Force
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
utility slots won't happen because strip miners don't take turret or launcher slots. hence any utility slot can and will be filled by an extra strip

They already have some mechanism to limit mining, see the 5 gas miner limit.

Drox

Also, you would need a substantial PG/CPU upgrade to fit a 4th (& 5th) strip miner.

You can fit more than 5 gas miners - it's just that you can only use up to 5 (skill based). Once you can use 5, there's really no reason to use T1 gas miners anymore too.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Dave stark
#244 - 2012-07-26 17:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
utility slots won't happen because strip miners don't take turret or launcher slots. hence any utility slot can and will be filled by an extra strip

They already have some mechanism to limit mining, see the 5 gas miner limit.

Drox


that's a limit on the module, not the ship. hence the hulk would be the only one to have a utility slot. or is it a skill limit?

either way it's not a ship limit.
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#245 - 2012-07-26 17:25:50 UTC
It would be nice to hear some feedback from the dev's regarding the size of the crystals and the small cargo hold that is available to store them, is this intentional, or an oversight?

Senex Legio
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#246 - 2012-07-26 17:34:49 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
utility slots won't happen because strip miners don't take turret or launcher slots. hence any utility slot can and will be filled by an extra strip

They already have some mechanism to limit mining, see the 5 gas miner limit.

Drox


that's a limit on the module, not the ship. hence the hulk would be the only one to have a utility slot. or is it a skill limit?

either way it's not a ship limit.


There are a couple ways to do it:
Add 2 more slots to all of the ships and have built-in limits to the miners that match the current.
OR give all three ships 3 high slots and limit them all to one mining module and duplicate the Skiff's Role bonuses to all the ships.

I'd like the Skiff to be the Cov-Ops/Blockade Runner (Can fit Cov-ops cloak), the Mack to be the Deep Space Transport (Space+warp stab+EHP), and the Hulk to be the Freighter (Max Yield) of Mining ships.

Drox
Dave stark
#247 - 2012-07-26 17:37:31 UTC
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
utility slots won't happen because strip miners don't take turret or launcher slots. hence any utility slot can and will be filled by an extra strip

They already have some mechanism to limit mining, see the 5 gas miner limit.

Drox


that's a limit on the module, not the ship. hence the hulk would be the only one to have a utility slot. or is it a skill limit?

either way it's not a ship limit.


There are a couple ways to do it:
Add 2 more slots to all of the ships and have built-in limits to the miners that match the current.
OR give all three ships 3 high slots and limit them all to one mining module and duplicate the Skiff's Role bonuses to all the ships.

I'd like the Skiff to be the Cov-Ops/Blockade Runner (Can fit Cov-ops cloak), the Mack to be the Deep Space Transport (Space+warp stab+EHP), and the Hulk to be the Freighter (Max Yield) of Mining ships.

Drox


i'd rather they were mining ships, personally.
Murl
The Buffet Assault Group
#248 - 2012-07-26 17:54:29 UTC
Here i was getting so excited about the Mack and it's ore hold...

Come on ccp...give it back....pls Cry
Javajunky
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#249 - 2012-07-26 17:59:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Javajunky
Wow I mention a problem with Cargo Hold and mining crystal and I cannot believe how many people literally came out of the wood work to protest fixing what actually just got broken.

Yes it is fairly reasonable for the Holk to have accomdation for a full set of mining crystals.

it's not like anyone is asking for more... most of us just want what was already there.... Personally when I undock each hulk has a set of crystals, so I undock roughly 18,000 m3 worth of crystals just in my hulks and I carry another 5K in my Rorq that's hauling.

Really why is such a problem? No one has even posited a valid reason why it's unfair to leave an existing condition in game, why is it unreasonable that the top yield ship have the flexibility to retool based on having a full stock of crystals.

Just change them to 5m3 or 10m3 for a T2 problem solved.
Infinite Force
#250 - 2012-07-26 18:12:50 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Droxlyn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
utility slots won't happen because strip miners don't take turret or launcher slots. hence any utility slot can and will be filled by an extra strip

They already have some mechanism to limit mining, see the 5 gas miner limit.

Drox


that's a limit on the module, not the ship. hence the hulk would be the only one to have a utility slot. or is it a skill limit?

either way it's not a ship limit.


There are a couple ways to do it:
Add 2 more slots to all of the ships and have built-in limits to the miners that match the current.
OR give all three ships 3 high slots and limit them all to one mining module and duplicate the Skiff's Role bonuses to all the ships.

I'd like the Skiff to be the Cov-Ops/Blockade Runner (Can fit Cov-ops cloak), the Mack to be the Deep Space Transport (Space+warp stab+EHP), and the Hulk to be the Freighter (Max Yield) of Mining ships.

Drox


i'd rather they were mining ships, personally.

Yes, but Drox has a great 'role' idea there.

Think on this:
- How fun would Ninja mining be in low / null sec for a Fleet of Cloaky skiffs be? Black Op them in and go to work.
- The Mack is already becoming a DST-like miner with its new Ore hold size.
- The Hulk is still the 'max yield'.

While fitting 1 or 3 strips on all the miners might make the artist's life a bit messy, it should make the programming of it all a bit easier.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Infinite Force
#251 - 2012-07-26 18:14:44 UTC
Javajunky wrote:
Wow I mention a problem with Cargo Hold and mining crystal and I cannot believe how many people literally came out of the wood work to protest fixing what actually just got broken.

Yes it is fairly reasonable for the Holk to have accomdation for a full set of mining crystals.

it's not like anyone is asking for more... most of us just want what was already there.... Personally when I undock each hulk has a set of crystals, so I undock roughly 18,000 m3 worth of crystals just in my hulks and I carry another 5K in my Rorq that's hauling.

Really why is such a problem? No one has even posited a valid reason why it's unfair to leave an existing condition in game, why is it unreasonable that the top yield ship have the flexibility to retool based on having a full stock of crystals.

Just change them to 5m3 or 10m3 for a T2 problem solved.

How many hulks are you undocking? I've mined quite a bit in my time, and I never carry more than 5 Ore types (+ spares) in my hold - and usually, just 3 or 4 depending on my mood. No more than about 1,500 m3 (for a hulk).

Any yes, 5m3 / 10m3 for crystals is what should be pushed for.

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Sudhana
Universal Exports
#252 - 2012-07-26 18:49:38 UTC
Whatever Implementation of CCP on mining Barges/Exhumers, Poor miners just have to endure with them.

May I request CCP dev to mine in game as a "normal" character for at least one month - a few hours every day.

Perhaps then you will truly understand the needs of a miner in eve.

May you & your loved ones be well & happy. With respect, Sudhana
Arctos Canis
Ice Wolves
#253 - 2012-07-26 19:39:47 UTC
Sudhana wrote:
Whatever Implementation of CCP on mining Barges/Exhumers, Poor miners just have to endure with them.

May I request CCP dev to mine in game as a "normal" character for at least one month - a few hours every day.

Perhaps then you will truly understand the needs of a miner in eve.


they already understand it :) cuz they are trying to do something about it to make it more comfortable . But the problem is that they don't listen to the miner base players who are already saying what kind off issues we gonna be facing with the upcoming changes. Main issue is hulks hold for crystals which should be addressed the rest can be bered with...
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#254 - 2012-07-26 20:18:35 UTC
With the current bay size on the hulks, I have to plan out which rocks I am going to hit first and make sure I have those crystals in the hold, I have to figure this out for each of my hulks before undocking. If its a long run I usually end up making a trip back to the station to change out the crystals for the new tagets I line up.

It would be nice to be able to just lug around a full set of crystals, and it would eliminate some of the clutter in my station if I could just leave all the crystals in the hulk.

So make the crystals small and be done with it. 8)

Senex Legio
Noslen Nosilla
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate
United Interests
#255 - 2012-07-26 20:34:32 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
500m3 is all you need for crystals. That will give you enough space for 10 T2 crystals, or 16 T1. T2 crystals in a Hulk/Covetor can be configured for 3 sets plus 1 spare crystal of your most important type, or two sets plus two spare of each set. T1 crystals can have 4 sets with a spare for each, or three sets with a full replacement for one set and two spare crystals for the other two sets.

This bullspit about, "I NEED A FULL SET OF EVERY ORE TYPE CRYSTAL IN MY HOLD OMG!!!!!1" is hogwash. Any competent miner is only going to go after a few ore types ( the ones that have high ISK/m3 ) anyway. Miner/Producers, are going to mine the highest ISK/m3 ore they can and sell what they don't use to buy the minerals that they do need, so again limiting the range of ores to just a few which can be easily covered by a limited crystal set in a 500m3 cargo hold.


any competent miner [in a hulk] will be in a fleet stripping belts of everything, there's at least 4 ores per belt in high sec alone, then when we get to grav sites etc that goes up. in 0.0 you WILL mine everything including the hideous spodumain in order to cycle the grav site.

so yes, you do need a full set of crystals in a hulk, pehaps not in a mack or skiff, but you do in a hulk.


Psst, I bolded the part YOU DIDN'T READ. That takes care of the highsec belts. As for 0.0, haulers can shuttle crystals as needed from a Roqal or Orca that is safely in a POS, or if you want to John Wayne it, the rat tank can shuttle the crystals from the Orca or Roqal in the gravametric site (never EVER have them in the site, ever, unless you want to show people a hilarious lossmail.)



Actually you can only carry 9 T2 crystals in your Hulk cargohold if you have 10 in your carghold you can't change a crystal because your cargohold is full...go ahead try it I'll wait.

Be polite.

Be professional.

But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#256 - 2012-07-26 22:28:49 UTC
man those mining crystals REALLY need their size cut.. badly.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2012-07-26 22:36:07 UTC
On a different topic I would like to the the Retriever and Mackinaw have a bonus to survey scanners scan range (25-50% per level), being they are for independent mining this kind of bonus would be a benefit to the ship.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Dave stark
#258 - 2012-07-26 23:15:30 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
On a different topic I would like to the the Retriever and Mackinaw have a bonus to survey scanners scan range (25-50% per level), being they are for independent mining this kind of bonus would be a benefit to the ship.


not really, when you've only got 15km range any thing past 15k is irrelevant.
Infinite Force
#259 - 2012-07-26 23:20:37 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
On a different topic I would like to the the Retriever and Mackinaw have a bonus to survey scanners scan range (25-50% per level), being they are for independent mining this kind of bonus would be a benefit to the ship.


not really, when you've only got 15km range any thing past 15k is irrelevant.

Only if solo. With a maxed booster, you're getting 25+ (I think 29 is absolute max with the right implants).

HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud

http://tinyurl.com/95zmyzw - The only way to go!
Dave stark
#260 - 2012-07-26 23:22:05 UTC
Infinite Force wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
On a different topic I would like to the the Retriever and Mackinaw have a bonus to survey scanners scan range (25-50% per level), being they are for independent mining this kind of bonus would be a benefit to the ship.


not really, when you've only got 15km range any thing past 15k is irrelevant.

Only if solo. With a maxed booster, you're getting 25+ (I think 29 is absolute max with the right implants).


then fit a t2 scanner :)