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EVE Online: Inferno 1.2 to be deployed on August 8

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Author
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#381 - 2012-07-27 07:53:47 UTC
Is eve a modern fps now? Is that why every god damn ship is brown? ffs
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#382 - 2012-07-27 08:37:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Adrian Dixon
CCP Arrow wrote:

We will look into this behavior, the assumption was that players that only loot one wreck at a time would want to see that it went into the Cargo hold once the 'Loot All' button was pressed. But if the Ship's Cargo hold is empty however, we have now observed users thinking nothing happened because they see no change in the content area of the Inventory window and sometimes they might not notice the focus change in the Index tree, or simply have the Index tree minimized, so this needs addressing I agree. The action should simply close the cargo window once the cargo container is empty, if the user opened a cargo container directly (as a secondary inventory window).

The only question that remains is, if a user opens up the Inventory from the Neocom, and is using the Index tree, will he also want that window to close when he has pressed 'Loot all' on the last wreck in the index tree?


Adding "Loot All" under the right click menu when right clicking a wreck/can/etc would be great especialy for noctis pilots. This would save even having to open any windows.

EDIT: Looking forward to the patch by the way.
CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#383 - 2012-07-27 10:46:12 UTC
Thanks everyone for your feedback regarding the Shift discussion. As pointed out here, there already is a setting in the Esc Menu related to reverting Shift behavior, so it might make sense to have this behavior tied with that setting. Hopefully those that already use that setting will also want the Inventory Shift function to be reverted.

Jett0 wrote:
Is it possible to base the behavior on whether or not the index tree is expanded? For example, if it's minimized (like when you're looting in space), the button text changes to "Loot / Close." This would allow you to solve both scenarios while being clear on function.


Interesting point, this would solve it very gracefully. I have added it to our Iteration plan, thank you.

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow

Lord Helghast
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#384 - 2012-07-27 11:35:40 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Thanks everyone for your feedback regarding the Shift discussion. As pointed out here, there already is a setting in the Esc Menu related to reverting Shift behavior, so it might make sense to have this behavior tied with that setting. Hopefully those that already use that setting will also want the Inventory Shift function to be reverted.

Jett0 wrote:
Is it possible to base the behavior on whether or not the index tree is expanded? For example, if it's minimized (like when you're looting in space), the button text changes to "Loot / Close." This would allow you to solve both scenarios while being clear on function.


Interesting point, this would solve it very gracefully. I have added it to our Iteration plan, thank you.


See us players can be useful lol
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#385 - 2012-07-27 11:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
CCP Arrow wrote:
Thanks everyone for your feedback regarding the Shift discussion. As pointed out here, there already is a setting in the Esc Menu related to reverting Shift behavior, so it might make sense to have this behavior tied with that setting. Hopefully those that already use that setting will also want the Inventory Shift function to be reverted.

Jett0 wrote:
Is it possible to base the behavior on whether or not the index tree is expanded? For example, if it's minimized (like when you're looting in space), the button text changes to "Loot / Close." This would allow you to solve both scenarios while being clear on function.


Interesting point, this would solve it very gracefully. I have added it to our Iteration plan, thank you.


UH! I hope you do not mean the “Merge “Items” and “Ships” into station panel” checkbox on the General Settings Tab of the ESC Menu.
I know this checkbox. But it is absolute no solution because after checking it - ALL windows are really merged into the station panel. Sad
THIS is absolute not helpful. Helpful would only free moveable windows. Not a collection of tabs within the station panel. Station panel has nothing to do with inventory or windows.

Please do not try to exchange "Unified" with "Merged".

The idea to bound a window to something that not belongs to, would not be an improvement. You should spare your development time and bring just the autoshift to open seperate and independent windows. Never bound a window on something. Just own windows, adjustable in size and position. What?
Reginald Zebranky
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#386 - 2012-07-27 13:18:11 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
[...] because I at least have been making some changes to saved fittings).


Oh God! are the saved-fittings changes coming in this patch?
I love you.
I love you sooooo much!

Any chance the load-saved-fittings bugs have been fixed too?
When modules or drones glitch during fitting-loading it is ever so irritating.

CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#387 - 2012-07-27 14:28:05 UTC
Reginald Zebranky wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
[...] because I at least have been making some changes to saved fittings).


Oh God! are the saved-fittings changes coming in this patch?
I love you.
I love you sooooo much!

Any chance the load-saved-fittings bugs have been fixed too?
When modules or drones glitch during fitting-loading it is ever so irritating.




yes they are! Big smile
do you think I should write a micro dev blog on it next week when I get back from vacation so everybody notices?

I don't know what but you're talking about, unfortunately, but I can take a look on Monday if there's already a bug report on it?

<3 u too random man on the internet Blink

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

CCP Arrow
C C P
C C P Alliance
#388 - 2012-07-27 14:31:06 UTC
Callidus Dux wrote:
I hope you do not mean the “Merge “Items” and “Ships” into station panel” checkbox on the General Settings Tab of the ESC Menu.

No, it's this one:

ESC Menu under "General Settings - Windows"
"Try to Use Existing Info Window if Any (Except if Shift is Pressed)"

We would need to change the description for the setting toggle though, to describe better what it's doing regarding Shift click.

Something along the line of:
"Require SHIFT be pressed to open a new window (applies to Show Info and Inventory folders)"

CCP Arrow   |   Director of User Experience   |   EVE Online   |   @CCP_Arrow

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#389 - 2012-07-27 15:36:19 UTC
Jett0 wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
just dropping this here since it's a unified inventory discussion

http://images.six.betanews.com/screenshots/945901171-1.png


Ha ha. This is like... Unified Everything.

Index > Space > Ships > Current Ship > Modules > High Slots > Weapons > Large Mega Pulse Laser > Action > Fire (Your capacitor is empty)?


basically, imagine having your assets in Amarr open on the left side and your assets in Jita open on the right

you drag one of your stacks in Amarr to the right and it opens a courier contract prompt

~the possibilities~

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#390 - 2012-07-27 15:45:41 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Callidus Dux wrote:
I hope you do not mean the “Merge “Items” and “Ships” into station panel” checkbox on the General Settings Tab of the ESC Menu.

No, it's this one:

ESC Menu under "General Settings - Windows"
"Try to Use Existing Info Window if Any (Except if Shift is Pressed)"

We would need to change the description for the setting toggle though, to describe better what it's doing regarding Shift click.

Something along the line of:
"Require SHIFT be pressed to open a new window (applies to Show Info and Inventory folders)"


Ah! Thank you for your explanation CCP Arrow. Smile
Inspiration
#391 - 2012-07-27 20:58:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
1: The hulk needs a bit bigger ore hold (doesn't have to be much)
2: Change one ore mining amount bonus to a cycle time bonus.
3: Improve the capacitor generation a bit to cushion the extra energy use caused by a faster cycle time.

Especially point 2 will make it more distinct from the other ships in that it takes many smaller bites, instead of a few large chunks. This makes it less prone to ore hold overrun that would otherwise be a serious issue and also enables it to mine activity with less ore yield loss because there is only half a cycle left in a rock.

Obviously, it will chew trough crystals faster, so give it proportionally a bit more cargo hold then the Mackinaw.

Otherwise, as things stand, there hardly ever will be a sane reason to use a Hulk, given the advantages the Mackinaw has over the Hulk.

I am serious!

mkint
#392 - 2012-07-27 21:16:14 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
Callidus Dux wrote:
I hope you do not mean the “Merge “Items” and “Ships” into station panel” checkbox on the General Settings Tab of the ESC Menu.

No, it's this one:

ESC Menu under "General Settings - Windows"
"Try to Use Existing Info Window if Any (Except if Shift is Pressed)"

We would need to change the description for the setting toggle though, to describe better what it's doing regarding Shift click.

Something along the line of:
"Require SHIFT be pressed to open a new window (applies to Show Info and Inventory folders)"

you're doing it again. You're breaking existing functionality for no good reason.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#393 - 2012-07-27 23:21:29 UTC
Udl - CCP continuing to slather makeup on a pig. Static windows for in station operations - that's all that's needed. UdI was trying to solve a problem that actually exists in the Assets UI.
Wiu Ming
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#394 - 2012-07-28 00:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Wiu Ming
CCP Greyscale wrote:

The broader solution to all this is for people to stop imagining they have a perfect grasp of the minutate [sic] of EVE development and holding individual developers personally accountable for development decisions and outcomes. Nobody, from Hellmar and Unifex down, gets to make decisions completely unilaterally...


I'd like to vote for new roles/powers for Punkturis, specifically enabling her to make decisions about EVE completely unilaterally.

Warmest Regards,
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#395 - 2012-07-28 01:00:32 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Otherwise, as things stand, there hardly ever will be a sane reason to use a Hulk, given the advantages the Mackinaw has over the Hulk.


The way a miner friend of mine put it, the Hulk becomes worse for solo mining but better for fleet mining.

mkint wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:
"Require SHIFT be pressed to open a new window (applies to Show Info and Inventory folders)"
you're doing it again. You're breaking existing functionality for no good reason.


Isn't this just extending what that option applies to? What does it break?

CCP Punkturis wrote:
do you think I should write a micro dev blog on it next week when I get back from vacation so everybody notices?


Something that might improve communication is more micro-devblogs. A lot of forum rage could be prevented with this. Even a locked thread saying "No, we haven't forgotten about x" every now and then would help. I think a lot of recent Unified Inventory rage came from the fact that dev blogs were being pushed on it, then suddenly they just stopped. In other words, yes, publish it!

I notice Team Avatar are still waiting for theirs to be approved by CCP Unifex. Granted, vacations/sickness will slow things down, but wouldn't it be better if approval was only required by team leads (assuming that's not how it's done currently)?

Occasionally plays sober

darmwand
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#396 - 2012-07-28 02:11:14 UTC
CCP Arrow wrote:
"Require SHIFT be pressed to open a new window (applies to Show Info and Inventory folders)"


Just make sure that it doesn't apply to guns, too...

"The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp."

Jonuts
The Arrow Project
#397 - 2012-07-28 03:02:42 UTC
Jett0 wrote:

Something that might improve communication is more micro-devblogs. A lot of forum rage could be prevented with this. Even a locked thread saying "No, we haven't forgotten about x" every now and then would help. I think a lot of recent Unified Inventory rage came from the fact that dev blogs were being pushed on it, then suddenly they just stopped. In other words, yes, publish it!

I notice Team Avatar are still waiting for theirs to be approved by CCP Unifex. Granted, vacations/sickness will slow things down, but wouldn't it be better if approval was only required by team leads (assuming that's not how it's done currently)?


No. Even when they blogged about it, we still raged at them. Doubt that's gonna change. The rage has quite a great deal to do with the off hand way that every concern about it was waved off as us "not giving it a chance". Go look up the original thread. It starts out with a bunch of "Wow! That's cool!". Then the day it's released on the test server, you see a bunch of "Holy ****! What is this abomination!?!?"

Of course, being on the test server, people expect garbage, and thus, it wasn't really rage, just pointing out that it sucked. Following that was a great deal of suggestions that would have made the system workable (ignoring the lag issues). Then one of the dev's posts in the thread "Goes live on Inferno next week!" and the rest of the thread is everyone who tested it BEGGING CCP to not release it because it wasn't ready. THAT is why there is such a level of hatred. They didn't bother to fix it when they knew it was a broken pile of ****.

Also, really doesn't help that the most requested features are simply a return of lost shortcuts. That **** should have been hotfixed in same ******* day. It's a god damn short cut. Is your code REALLY that ****** up that you can't bring back shortcuts in the right click menu and neocom? Why the insistence that we use the damn tree to navigate when using the neocom shortcuts and right click menu are more natural AND what the player base is used to? You even bury the damn neocom shortcuts so you don't confuse the new players, and the rest of us will just simply remove the Inventory from our neocom, and put back item hangar/ship hanger and whatever else we want.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#398 - 2012-07-28 04:00:37 UTC
Jonuts wrote:
Some good things, with asterisks!


To clarify, I'll emphasize the word "recently." There was the initial rage, which died down a bit as they pushed the weekly update devblogs. Then they stopped, and a few wondered if they were "done" with Unified Inventory. My point is, if the devs don't have time for a full devblog, even a small one would be nice to let us know important features and fixes are being worked on.

For example, you know what I'd like to see? A post/blog with "Yes, we're still looking at making low-sec/mercenaries/piracy awesome like you wanted, but other things have priority right now. No idea when we'll come back to it."

Your points about the test server feedback are entirely valid, but that's a different issue. If the hand-wave attitude you mention is true, that tells me they need to make Singularity easier to access and get more players on it. You might counter that with "or they could just listen to the feedback in the first place," but I have a feeling they've had players complain about test features before that released just fine (no proof, mind you, just MMO communities in general).

Lots of feedback from a few players at best proves that a few players are very passionate about that feature/change. Trying to take that feedback and turn it into a cross-section of the entire population is a practice that forms entire university majors.

When they make mistakes like this, I just remind myself that Incarna gave us Crucible. Big smile

Occasionally plays sober

mkint
#399 - 2012-07-28 06:53:34 UTC
Jett0 wrote:

mkint wrote:
CCP Arrow wrote:
"Require SHIFT be pressed to open a new window (applies to Show Info and Inventory folders)"
you're doing it again. You're breaking existing functionality for no good reason.


Isn't this just extending what that option applies to? What does it break?


Having 1 checkbox for 2 things that are completely unrelated? How is that extending anything?

This is another example of why this particular dev shouldn't be allowed to touch UI stuff. He has no concept of usability and workflow. Has he even ever played EVE? You know, just to see what all the hubbub is about?

Do you use your show-info windows the same way you use inventory windows?
Do you use your inventory windows the same way you use show-info windows?

Why in the ever loving hell should they be forced to behave the same way, when they don't have a goddamned thing to do with one another? 1 checkbox? Are you freakin' kidding me?

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Inspiration
#400 - 2012-07-28 10:24:25 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dosnix
*snip*
Post Constructive Feedback in the right Forum or do not post.

Fixed your insulting and off topic post
ISD Dosnix

I am serious!