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Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#101 - 2012-07-23 17:07:22 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Taranius De Consolville wrote:


Now null sec. Please give me one solid reason and I mean SOLID reason why I should leave high sec and come to Null Sec?


I wish i had a spambot that would just spam "IF YOU NEED TO ASK THAT QUESTION, YOU DON'T BELONG IN NULL SEC" every time someone spouts this particular piece of non-sense.

The OP does, however, illustrate the fundamental psychological difference between the null sec player (a better term would be the all-sec player, as null players play everywhere buy hi-sec types stick to one part of the game). The Hi-sec player asks "why would I?".. The null sec player ask "why would I not?"

I still think the "high sec only, no "pvp" ever, solo casual carebear type is a misfit in this game (why oh why wouldn't you play Star Trek, it's BUILT for you types), but to each his own I guess, I have no problems with people who choose to enjoy only a small, narrow unrepresentative slice of the game as long as they don't complain about the fact that this game doesn't cater to them


I'd LOVE to PVP more. Hell i PVP in other games almost daily (mostly Battlefield 3 these days), and will get Dust as well if it supports mouse and keyboard properly (i suck and consoles..).

There is only a big hindrance for me and many others in EVE when it comes to PVP: it is hard to get into casually, meet some new friends and have fun with them. You have to know alot, play alot and be online on teamspeak, take orders etc.

Most 0.0 PVP impressions i got so far (and some "leet" pirate corps as well) remind me of a friends story of hardcore WOW raiding (and why he left): he got chewed out on voice chat by a 12 year old that was the raid boss, because he didn't take the game seriously enough. My friend is as software consultant with a kid. He has other things that are more fun than being yelled at by a freaking 12 year old for not taking something that's supposed to be fun seriously enough.

I got the same kind of experience from EVE myself from being a part of Veto corp a long time ago, and being 0.0 sov holders as well. Its just NOT worth the hassle, its a game.

Summary: Assholery and Spaceships are Serious Business are the two main obstacles keeping hisec players going into lowsec and 0.0, NOT risk. My opinon.


These are just terrible excuses. RvB, faction warfare and other avenues are avalable for casual pvp.

but EVe is not a CASUAL GAME, it takes time investment for the big stuff, and if you can't do t, that's fine, just stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us who like it as is.

I'm married with kids and have a full time job, because EVE is my hobby, I make time, rather than asking CCP to fix it for me.....


Which part of i used to pvp in lowsec and 0.0 didnt you understand? And just FYI, im joining FW now this week whenever i actually have time to
1. fly my items to where the conflict points are
2. Enlist in the militia (already stripped my pvp char of roles in the corp he was in
3. read up on how FW WORKS.

No matter how casual you think these things are, they take a hell of a lot more attention than just clicking "join friend" in Battlelog for BF3 and do 30-60 minutes of instant action filled pvp (with no loss and no persistency true enough, but still..).

Even casual pvp in this game requires some comittment and planning. And lowsec and 0.0 isnt only about pvp that way, its also about living somewhere else, seing other stuff. If that didnt have much more of a comittment threshold than FW has (from what i understand) im sure more would join them.


Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#102 - 2012-07-23 17:09:07 UTC
AdmiralJohn wrote:
Lilly Tiger wrote:
[Like I said, i was in Veto Corp (low sec pirate corp at that time), and have been in 0.0 Sov "fun" for months. I know what it can be like, for better or worse. I am sure you are correct, but how MANY of the 0.0 people have it like that? My experience was mixed. If we couldn't join up regularly for PVP fleets, we either had to leave or pay. With the logistics that are part of 0.0, thats not what i want to have as part of my online gaming casual fun.


on a side note though, if your corp is so casual and fun in 0.0, do you need people? :)

We are both amateur pvpers (im out of it), miners and explorers (lived in WH space as well).

As far as my experiences go, I've seen it two ways. A number of years ago I flew with a few 0.0 alliances and they were as you described earlier: no fun, lots of yelling FC's, mandatory ops, etc etc. And to be perfectly honest, those alliances (or alliances with a similar structure) still exist.

However, I've recently joined TEST, and it completely blew away all my past preconceptions of what a 0.0 alliance was. It was amazing, people actually having fun and enjoying each other. I've had no mandatory ops, no one yelling at me in fleet, and no one caring if I get my failfit rifter blown up.

I'm always astounded at the vitriol hurdled at the CFC and HBC on this board, because from my perspective they're the only ones doing it right. They specifically seek out newbros, and are a huge source of new players entering the Eve. They make ops fun and enjoyable, to the point where we can get more people in our fleet by simply offering it than other alliances can by making it mandatory. I've received nothing but respect and new friends since joining, and now that I'm here I see how much I missed out on when I was on my own in high and low sec space.

I guess what I'm getting at is that there are plenty of fun and casual 0.0 alliances. I might log on once or twice a week for an hour or two, pick up on some fleet that's going out, and have a good time. Lack of time, ISK, or skill is no excuse for not coming to null sec.


Then that sounds awesome and I want in. (not with this char though). Point the way to the recruitment please :)


oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-07-23 17:23:04 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
instead of replying with the normal " this is one of those threads again"


So say 70 % of the players is Highsec right now.
Would Low or zero still be fun to you if 80 % of all highsec players suddenly would go to low or zero?

how much would low or Zero change ,if CCP made a game mechanic ,where you have no choice then to go outside highsec after a short while.

would that change low or Zero for the better or the worst?







But will this be good for Low or Zero?


Both, because the amount of pilots able to get in and out would bring a whole new level of alliances working together and teamwork based opposition against pirates. It would also open up null/low to newer players simply because of the amount of corps who would head in that direction. More risk vs reward but safer ways in and out.[/quote wrote:



Maybe safer to get in ,but it will still change a lot

If CCP would and could make some sort of mechanic ,that would force people to other worlds in EvE
This invasion could go 2 ways
So ,the question stays ,will it be something everybody wants or will that change low or zero into something else?


answer this pls [/quote]

so?

R.S.I2014
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2012-07-23 17:23:46 UTC
People like different things. Unfortunately, we have some idiots here, who think that everyone should be forced to do what they think is best.

People stay in high sec? So let them live there, whats the problem? Oh right - your are always right and others are wrong - totally forgot that god complex part.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#105 - 2012-07-23 17:39:50 UTC
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Taranius De Consolville wrote:


Now null sec. Please give me one solid reason and I mean SOLID reason why I should leave high sec and come to Null Sec?


I wish i had a spambot that would just spam "IF YOU NEED TO ASK THAT QUESTION, YOU DON'T BELONG IN NULL SEC" every time someone spouts this particular piece of non-sense.

The OP does, however, illustrate the fundamental psychological difference between the null sec player (a better term would be the all-sec player, as null players play everywhere buy hi-sec types stick to one part of the game). The Hi-sec player asks "why would I?".. The null sec player ask "why would I not?"

I still think the "high sec only, no "pvp" ever, solo casual carebear type is a misfit in this game (why oh why wouldn't you play Star Trek, it's BUILT for you types), but to each his own I guess, I have no problems with people who choose to enjoy only a small, narrow unrepresentative slice of the game as long as they don't complain about the fact that this game doesn't cater to them


I'd LOVE to PVP more. Hell i PVP in other games almost daily (mostly Battlefield 3 these days), and will get Dust as well if it supports mouse and keyboard properly (i suck and consoles..).

There is only a big hindrance for me and many others in EVE when it comes to PVP: it is hard to get into casually, meet some new friends and have fun with them. You have to know alot, play alot and be online on teamspeak, take orders etc.

Most 0.0 PVP impressions i got so far (and some "leet" pirate corps as well) remind me of a friends story of hardcore WOW raiding (and why he left): he got chewed out on voice chat by a 12 year old that was the raid boss, because he didn't take the game seriously enough. My friend is as software consultant with a kid. He has other things that are more fun than being yelled at by a freaking 12 year old for not taking something that's supposed to be fun seriously enough.

I got the same kind of experience from EVE myself from being a part of Veto corp a long time ago, and being 0.0 sov holders as well. Its just NOT worth the hassle, its a game.

Summary: Assholery and Spaceships are Serious Business are the two main obstacles keeping hisec players going into lowsec and 0.0, NOT risk. My opinon.


These are just terrible excuses. RvB, faction warfare and other avenues are avalable for casual pvp.

but EVe is not a CASUAL GAME, it takes time investment for the big stuff, and if you can't do t, that's fine, just stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us who like it as is.

I'm married with kids and have a full time job, because EVE is my hobby, I make time, rather than asking CCP to fix it for me.....


Which part of i used to pvp in lowsec and 0.0 didnt you understand? And just FYI, im joining FW now this week whenever i actually have time to
1. fly my items to where the conflict points are
2. Enlist in the militia (already stripped my pvp char of roles in the corp he was in
3. read up on how FW WORKS.

No matter how casual you think these things are, they take a hell of a lot more attention than just clicking "join friend" in Battlelog for BF3 and do 30-60 minutes of instant action filled pvp (with no loss and no persistency true enough, but still..).

Even casual pvp in this game requires some comittment and planning. And lowsec and 0.0 isnt only about pvp that way, its also about living somewhere else, seing other stuff. If that didnt have much more of a comittment threshold than FW has (from what i understand) im sure more would join them.




So play less BF3 and get your in game logistics done? I have a big problem with "entitled" people who thinks things should be made easier for them. EVE is not a casual, instant gratification game even though there are some things (like Faction Warfare) that only have a very little logistical over-head then it's mostly play time.

I'm just not really understanding what it is you want, if you can't invest the time to participate in what you want to, why do you want to at all?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#106 - 2012-07-23 17:56:18 UTC
Taranius De Consolville wrote:

I believe that high sec should be a place to learn, and that low sec should also be the same. But, it is hard to *learn* when the second u enter low sec, your dead. Because a 04 player camps the way in 24/7 lf kills with a cloak on.

If the gate guns on CHOKE POINTS were super hard to tank i.e ud need a bs to tank them with super resists i.e low dmg output it would give us a fighting chance to get in.

But alas they do not and can be tanked in a fast moving frigate


If only that was true. There are very few systems that are camped. Most of the entry points to lowsec are clear as triple platinum-filtered vodka.



.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#107 - 2012-07-23 17:59:34 UTC
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Face it, not many "WOW in space" monkeys last long in this game, they usually fly to another new game sooner rather than later.. It's the second kind of carebears I feel are getting hated unjustly and would potentially be a good pool for the second kind of pvpers there as well, if they weren't being kept away by fear/disgust of the first kind of pvpers..


I don't disagree. My point is that THEY are making YOU look bad, as some people lack the capacity to distinguish between different types of highsec players.

Lilly Tiger wrote:
Just to be clear here: you do understand the difference between
1. casual pvp with something approaching a fair fight (yeah, i said fair fight.. live with it)
and
2. being assraped by a bunch of pvp "vets" at a gate or some such right, with not chance in hell of winning and being ridiculed and laughed at for being angry at losing stuff?


The latter comes along with the former. There will always be people who dogpile onto what you THOUGHT would be a fair fight. I've lost ships to trade hub whores who only know how to fight under the protection of a pile of neutral logi and bump alts. You've got to accept that some people refuse to "fight fair" and get their jollies only fighting battles they know they can't lose. These people are PVP carebears, just as concerned about ship losses as a mission-running faction-fit marauder pilot.

I'm somewhere in between. I don't fight fair: I generally bring something far more powerful than what I intend to kill. But I'm one guy flying a ship available to anyone else. If they choose an inferior ship, that's no fault of mine. Truth is, it's all PVP and you've got to learn to take the good with the bad. You've got to be willing to take the risk of being smashed by a superior force, or else you'll never see the PVP you claim to want.

Ultimately, you have to ask the question of what constitutes a fair fight. Even when you think you've walked into one, there's a good chance the other guys knows something you don't and is about to make you feel really stupid. I've seen fights between two Hurricanes end up so woefully one-sided that the loser cried about it being "unfair" because the other guy used neuts and he didn't. People will say it's unfair if you bring jams or logi to a gang fight, even though they could have done the same. I might have more SP than you, better implants, or just a more competent fit. At what point does it become unfair?

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#108 - 2012-07-23 18:02:15 UTC
Roime wrote:
If only that was true. There are very few systems that are camped. Most of the entry points to lowsec are clear as triple platinum-filtered vodka.

I can't remember the last time I moved through lowsec and met any significant resistance. There are well-known nullsec camps, but most of low is easy to get into.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-07-23 18:38:02 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Roime wrote:
If only that was true. There are very few systems that are camped. Most of the entry points to lowsec are clear as triple platinum-filtered vodka.

I can't remember the last time I moved through lowsec and met any significant resistance. There are well-known nullsec camps, but most of low is easy to get into.

Apparently, this goes especially for Gallente Space. This month, I've gone on 10 roams through local low-sec systems, and only once did I see anything else that wasn't docked up. And that was a Shuttle, which I decided to just let go without attacking it at all. The only real problem is the occasional gate-camping blobs, that prevent would-be low-sec-dwellers from coming into low-sec and becoming established there.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-07-23 19:27:39 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
oldbutfeelingyoung
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
instead of replying with the normal " this is one of those threads again"


So say 70 % of the players is Highsec right now.
Would Low or zero still be fun to you if 80 % of all highsec players suddenly would go to low or zero?

how much would low or Zero change ,if CCP made a game mechanic ,where you have no choice then to go outside highsec after a short while.

would that change low or Zero for the better or the worst?







But will this be good for Low or Zero?


Both, because the amount of pilots able to get in and out would bring a whole new level of alliances working together and teamwork based opposition against pirates. It would also open up null/low to newer players simply because of the amount of corps who would head in that direction. More risk vs reward but safer ways in and out.



Maybe safer to get in ,but it will still change a lot

If CCP would and could make some sort of mechanic ,that would force people to other worlds in EvE
This invasion could go 2 ways
So ,the question stays ,will it be something everybody wants or will that change low or zero into something else?
[/quote wrote:


answer this pls


so?[/quote]

R.S.I2014
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#111 - 2012-07-23 19:32:49 UTC
Hey, OP......dumbass.

Don't erase your original post.
Ask for a lock if you want, but don't confuse everyone reading the thread by retroactively editing your posts.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#112 - 2012-07-23 19:33:22 UTC
Ironically a rather constructive debate is formed AFTER the OP stops posting.

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#113 - 2012-07-23 20:36:41 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Ironically a rather constructive debate is formed AFTER the OP stops posting.


Lol. Funny, but sadly a bit true.
Lilly Tiger
Megalith Heavy Industries
#114 - 2012-07-23 20:50:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


So play less BF3 and get your in game logistics done? I have a big problem with "entitled" people who thinks things should be made easier for them. EVE is not a casual, instant gratification game even though there are some things (like Faction Warfare) that only have a very little logistical over-head then it's mostly play time.

I'm just not really understanding what it is you want, if you can't invest the time to participate in what you want to, why do you want to at all?


you dont get it. Let me try and explain it easier:

point 1: if i have 20-30 minutes before i have to go, i cannot get the logistics done. It requires more time to get that done than a quick jump in of BF3 (for instance). There isnt always an "either/or" choice in the timeframes i have available.

point 2: if i have 60 minutes, i can either use them doing something "tedious" like aforementioned logistics in eve, or i can do something fun like play a instant pvp. People love instant gratification, its why credit companies are in business. I am not an exception to that. So i postpone the "tedious" part, even though the FW afterwards might be more fun in the long run.


Sorry, if that still doesnt get the point across and you still feel that I come off as being entitled etc i have two simple things to say to you: **** you and I'm so happy there is a choice to ignore users on the forum. It will make your willfully misunderstanding of my posts so you can post **** like this disappear for me, and make my days less annoying. Bear


i WANT to be able to play, but i HAVE To be able to jump out if RL interferes (I have a long term sick father, a wedding coming up, 3 dogs and a high pressure job that can contact me mostly anytime). In addition I cannot be expected to have a minimum playtime of x amount of hours x amount of times a week.

I am aware that means i will most likely never be part of 1000 people fighting in 0.0 unless my situation changes, but If EVE doesnt have a niche for me, I would be surprised. There are more gamers like me out there (apart from the sick loved ones i hope) than people seem to realize. Hell many of them play EVE from what i see :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#115 - 2012-07-24 04:32:29 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


These are just terrible excuses. RvB, faction warfare and other avenues are avalable for casual pvp.

but EVe is not a CASUAL GAME, it takes time investment for the big stuff, and if you can't do t, that's fine, just stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us who like it as is.

I'm married with kids and have a full time job, because EVE is my hobby, I make time, rather than asking CCP to fix it for me.....


EVE is the most casual friendly MMO out there. I work 80 hours a week and manage to have a bit of fun in EVE.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#116 - 2012-07-24 06:31:54 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Ironically a rather constructive debate is formed AFTER the OP stops posting.


Seems more standard proceedure, on these forums. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#117 - 2012-07-24 12:34:10 UTC
Lilly Tiger wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


So play less BF3 and get your in game logistics done? I have a big problem with "entitled" people who thinks things should be made easier for them. EVE is not a casual, instant gratification game even though there are some things (like Faction Warfare) that only have a very little logistical over-head then it's mostly play time.

I'm just not really understanding what it is you want, if you can't invest the time to participate in what you want to, why do you want to at all?


you dont get it. Let me try and explain it easier:

point 1: if i have 20-30 minutes before i have to go, i cannot get the logistics done. It requires more time to get that done than a quick jump in of BF3 (for instance). There isnt always an "either/or" choice in the timeframes i have available.

point 2: if i have 60 minutes, i can either use them doing something "tedious" like aforementioned logistics in eve, or i can do something fun like play a instant pvp. People love instant gratification, its why credit companies are in business. I am not an exception to that. So i postpone the "tedious" part, even though the FW afterwards might be more fun in the long run.


I'm sorry, you are simply in the wrong game, because in addition to wanting instant gratification, you can't figure out that "hey, I only have 20-30 minutes, maybe I move a ship or to to the militia staging point, then come back tommorw and play a bit" would be a good strategy....

Quote:

Sorry, if that still doesnt get the point across and you still feel that I come off as being entitled etc i have two simple things to say to you: **** you and I'm so happy there is a choice to ignore users on the forum. It will make your willfully misunderstanding of my posts so you can post **** like this disappear for me, and make my days less annoying. Bear


What exactly did I "wilfully misunderstand"? You want the game to give you instant gratification. This is not what EVE is about.

There are so many like you around these forums. Anyone with 2 braincells to rub together an see what EVE is, and yet these instant gratification, solo, casual, never leave the npc corp because EVe is hard, PVE only ect ect types just can't get that, while EVe will "allow" anyone to play, it's geared to a certain type of gameplay, which is NOT solo, casual.

It's like playing soccer and being mad that this stupid refs won't let you use your hands.

No one ever answers this question, but I'll ask again. Why aren't people liek you playing Star Trek online? Why not play something BUILT for the solo, casual, instant gratification pve crowd rather than ask for changes to EVe that would screw it up for those who like it as is?

Smells like a massive sense of entitlement to me.....



Quote:

i WANT to be able to play, but i HAVE To be able to jump out if RL interferes (I have a long term sick father, a wedding coming up, 3 dogs and a high pressure job that can contact me mostly anytime). In addition I cannot be expected to have a minimum playtime of x amount of hours x amount of times a week. [./quote]

EVe takes planning, if you are unwilling to plan you are unable to play.

[quote]
I am aware that means i will most likely never be part of 1000 people fighting in 0.0 unless my situation changes, but If EVE doesnt have a niche for me, I would be surprised. There are more gamers like me out there (apart from the sick loved ones i hope) than people seem to realize. Hell many of them play EVE from what i see :)


This is the same old appeal to CCPs wallet claptrap that people always use. CCP could choose to cater to you types, which would destroy EVE as we know it, or they can stick to the same guns they've stuck to for almost 10 years and kepp the game worlds one real and true "harsh universe" alive.

There are plenty of games for people like you (most video games in fact). Can people like me have ONE unforgiving hardcore game without you carebears running up and asking for I-Win buttons and instant gratification?
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2012-07-24 18:55:02 UTC
Patrakele wrote:
People like different things. Unfortunately, we have some idiots here, who think that everyone should be forced to do what they think is best.

People stay in high sec? So let them live there, whats the problem? Oh right - your are always right and others are wrong - totally forgot that god complex part.


"But, but, Eve is sandbox which means they have to play according to what my narrow definition of "sandbox" means or they aren't don't sandbox right!"

Bring your possibles.
oldbutfeelingyoung
Perkone
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-07-24 19:24:51 UTC
Gaellia Bonaventure wrote:
Patrakele wrote:
People like different things. Unfortunately, we have some idiots here, who think that everyone should be forced to do what they think is best.

People stay in high sec? So let them live there, whats the problem? Oh right - your are always right and others are wrong - totally forgot that god complex part.


"But, but, Eve is sandbox which means they have to play according to what my narrow definition of "sandbox" means or they aren't don't sandbox right!"



but ,but ,what about my sandcastle ,you didn,t build the same one as me,now what?????

R.S.I2014
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2012-07-24 19:55:57 UTC
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:
Gaellia Bonaventure wrote:
Patrakele wrote:
People like different things. Unfortunately, we have some idiots here, who think that everyone should be forced to do what they think is best.

People stay in high sec? So let them live there, whats the problem? Oh right - your are always right and others are wrong - totally forgot that god complex part.


"But, but, Eve is sandbox which means they have to play according to what my narrow definition of "sandbox" means or they aren't don't sandbox right!"



but ,but ,what about my sandcastle ,you didn,t build the same one as me,now what?????


Obviously your sand castle is not meeting the ultimate template and shall be cleansed.

The guys who want to force everyone to play it their way would have loved the Spanish Inquisition...