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ISN vs TVP

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Mexan Caderu
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-11-21 09:55:03 UTC
SkyMarshaller wrote:
Each group will suit different people, so why not debate this sensibly & give people considering venturing into incursions (which after all this debate is all about) proper information with which to make a considered decision.


The gist:
TVP = shield tank / low-medium fitting requirements, known for having HQ fleet running from downtime to downtime
ISN = shield tank / high fitting requirements, known for terminating incursions that still had 1-3 days left to be farmed and contesting various sites for increasing their isk/h, fleet is active a few hrs/day
TDF = armor tank / low-medium fitting requirements, known to be rather inactive, but fleets do eventually form for AS/VG sites
Lv6 & Pheonix, DIn flotten &friends= high fitting requirements, known to frequent AS/VG sites, some will form up HQ fleet when there are enough active pilots. Fleet is active a few hrs/day for any 1 community, less overlap means there is usually something up during the 23h day.
BTL = dead




Legend:
HQ= Headquarter site, 40 man fleet
AS= Assault site, 20 man fleet
VG= Vanguard site, 10 man fleet
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#42 - 2012-11-21 11:04:02 UTC
"Why can't they go somewhere else?"

Why should they? No one has monopoly over incursions, and in the end the strong survive. They marked their current site with a can so they could identify it when they were done contesting another? That's just game mechanics and competitive gameplay.

Almost didn't think I'd use these words in EVE, but welcome to competitive PvE. You have two choices if ISN fleets are constantly rolling you in sites, improve or accept it happens. Whining on a forum isn't going to change anything.


Too much goddamn entitlement in this thread, it's a FFA, and not everyone has to play by your idea of the rules in the sandbox.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.
Zwo Zateki
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-11-21 15:12:44 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
"Why can't they go somewhere else?"

Why should they? No one has monopoly over incursions, and in the end the strong survive. They marked their current site with a can so they could identify it when they were done contesting another? That's just game mechanics and competitive gameplay.

Almost didn't think I'd use these words in EVE, but welcome to competitive PvE. You have two choices if ISN fleets are constantly rolling you in sites, improve or accept it happens. Whining on a forum isn't going to change anything.


Too much goddamn entitlement in this thread, it's a FFA, and not everyone has to play by your idea of the rules in the sandbox.

Yep, when ISN shiny fleet follows TVP into every single site, the latter just blob and kick ISN out of the system :P

http://cvmkr.com/R4JG
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#44 - 2012-11-21 16:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Zwo Zateki wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
"Why can't they go somewhere else?"

Why should they? No one has monopoly over incursions, and in the end the strong survive. They marked their current site with a can so they could identify it when they were done contesting another? That's just game mechanics and competitive gameplay.

Almost didn't think I'd use these words in EVE, but welcome to competitive PvE. You have two choices if ISN fleets are constantly rolling you in sites, improve or accept it happens. Whining on a forum isn't going to change anything.


Too much goddamn entitlement in this thread, it's a FFA, and not everyone has to play by your idea of the rules in the sandbox.

Yep, when ISN shiny fleet follows TVP into every single site, the latter just blob and kick ISN out of the system :P


Great thought, but reality doesn't seem to not be your strong point.

The 'blob' your talking about. That worked out really well for them last time, right? They won the contest but did not get paid as they had over 60 people on grid to beat our 40.

As of the time of this post Zwo ISN has never left a system due to contesting, and we have not seen this 'blob' that your speak of. Are you sure that's the 'story' you want to go with?

I am still not sure why all the hostility and hatred you have for ISN, you flew with us for a couple months if i remember correctly and during that time you were one of our biggest supporters. Or was that just a lie as well?

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
Lancastor Dex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-11-21 16:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lancastor Dex
I love the innocent start of this thread and slow inevitable blood&guts end of itSmile
My post will follow pretty much same direction.

Most was already said.

TVP(and TDF) is basicaly enterance level incursion community and definitely a good place to start.

ISN on the other hand has higher standards like T2 gunz and rigs and for most part faction battleships/logi + skill at lvl 5.

Main concern of ISN is to make ISK as effectively and fast as possible. Winning a contest goes big way towards this goal, not ot mention it adds a FUN and competition factor to otherwise dull routine.
So Zwo Zateki that is the real reason why we are following your fleets everywhere. (No its not because of your charm, sryCry...)
If you do not like it - DEAL WITH IT!

I see a lot of posts about how ISN kills moms prematurely. Its funny how all the posts are comming from 2 or 3 people. Did you get paid to do it or you are really that shortsighted and delusional? Amount of desinformation you spread around is rly commendable.
Case in point was mom contest cca 2 weeks ago. ISN was slowly forming HQ running fleet, when i saw very amusing intel in TVP channel "ISN has formed 2 HQ fleets and plan to kill mom prematurely". With cca 30 ppl in fleet at that time it made us laugh.
TVP response was even better. They made joint 70 man "response" fleet with TDF and hit the mom site. Being a willing contenders we went in with 45 ppl and won the contest.
This is pretty much the scenario for every mom contest.

Personaly i don't remeber when we warped into mom site before TVP/TDF fleets. And of course when they go in, a spirit of good contest dictates that ISN must respond.

Original idea of Incursions was for them to be a bridge between PVE and PVP and when you look at it this way, contesting sites is just the thing. It is sort of Fleet vs Fleet combat.

I dont want TVP to sound as a bad guys. They have my BIG thanx a respect for training incursion newbies and they are doing a good job. However less drama, shortsightidness and false propaganda wouldn't hurt.

CU in next contestCool
Coffeinum
#46 - 2012-11-22 16:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Coffeinum
Lancastor Dex wrote:
I love the innocent start of this thread and slow inevitable blood&guts end of itSmile
My post will follow pretty much same direction.

Most was already said.

TVP(and TDF) is basicaly enterance level incursion community and definitely a good place to start.

ISN on the other hand has higher standards like T2 gunz and rigs and for most part faction battleships/logi + skill at lvl 5.

Main concern of ISN is to make ISK as effectively and fast as possible. Winning a contest goes big way towards this goal, not ot mention it adds a FUN and competition factor to otherwise dull routine.
So Zwo Zateki that is the real reason why we are following your fleets everywhere. (No its not because of your charm, sryCry...)
If you do not like it - DEAL WITH IT!

I see a lot of posts about how ISN kills moms prematurely. Its funny how all the posts are comming from 2 or 3 people. Did you get paid to do it or you are really that shortsighted and delusional? Amount of desinformation you spread around is rly commendable.
Case in point was mom contest cca 2 weeks ago. ISN was slowly forming HQ running fleet, when i saw very amusing intel in TVP channel "ISN has formed 2 HQ fleets and plan to kill mom prematurely". With cca 30 ppl in fleet at that time it made us laugh.
TVP response was even better. They made joint 70 man "response" fleet with TDF and hit the mom site. Being a willing contenders we went in with 45 ppl and won the contest.
This is pretty much the scenario for every mom contest.

Personaly i don't remeber when we warped into mom site before TVP/TDF fleets. And of course when they go in, a spirit of good contest dictates that ISN must respond.

Original idea of Incursions was for them to be a bridge between PVE and PVP and when you look at it this way, contesting sites is just the thing. It is sort of Fleet vs Fleet combat.

I dont want TVP to sound as a bad guys. They have my BIG thanx a respect for training incursion newbies and they are doing a good job. However less drama, shortsightidness and false propaganda wouldn't hurt.

CU in next contestCool

the thing is, do you have any idea why they started HQs in the first place, do you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZk_qfvc9ac (change resolution till it works)

A) you can't survive in an incursion system by yourself
B) you can't win contests against equally fitted fleets
C) go run NCNs
Nadia Gallen
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#47 - 2012-11-22 19:03:23 UTC
As they said, well played ^^

I do love that movie though... EVERYONE!!!! I might even put Leon on tonight, make popcorns... gonna be sweet!
Nituspar
Shiva
Northern Coalition.
#48 - 2012-11-22 20:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Nituspar
Quote:
the thing is, do you have any idea why they started HQs in the first place, do you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZk_qfvc9ac (change resolution till it works)


Interesting, here i thought we started doing HQ's beacuse of the huge member-demand for them and us starting to have the numbers for it. I do however love how ISN losing two contests becomes a huge thing worth making a video about for another community, it just shows how far we've gotten over the last year Blink

Btw, if you're this confident in your fleets, why has DIN been doing their best to avoid us us in hq's? Charadrass actually chickened out and warped off from the first pocket of a TPPH we came into late to contest the last time our fleets met.

Quote:
A) you can't survive in an incursion system by yourself


We've cleared incursions on our own plenty of times now, last one was actually done as a birthday gift to goldiiee. Lone incursions don't however bring contests which our members look forward to and are nice for both isk and breaking the monotony of farming sites.

Quote:
B) you can't win contests against equally fitted fleets


This is a pretty funny statement as DIN's, as most other incursion communities' current fits are actually carbon-copied from the fits ISN researched to be better than what the majority used before ISN was around.

As for contests we've won plenty, and lost some as well in the process. As long as the long-term numbers favour us by a large enough margin I don't see there being anything to worry about. This is the case when it comes to DIN as well, and why we don't exactly worry or acknowledge your community as any kind of a problem to us, similar to TVP.

Quote:
C) go run NCNs

Boring sites, even though we did manage to get them down to 11-12 minutes.
Tonali
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2012-11-23 04:26:48 UTC
Quote:
A) you can't survive in an incursion system by yourself


Liberation of Reya complete
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2012.09.08 01:13

Maraudian



Reya has been freed from the invading Sansha forces. Your efforts in this matter have not gone unnoticed and we are awarding you loyalty points. More details can be found in the Journal.



In addition, we wish to honor the following pilots, whose individual contribution exceeded everyone else:



1 0bscurum Skord 110821
2 Yeyra 110821
3 Maraudian 110821
4 KarlSteiner 110821
5 drifter1357 110821
6 Chandra K'ailar 103665
7 Judge Ment 98416
8 4Manimal 92045
9 dark102042 Arzi 86866



CONCORD

-- No one fully reads the thread they post in before hand?
Ahvram
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-11-26 14:40:18 UTC
Maraudian wrote:
Quote:
Liberation of Reya complete
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2012.09.08 01:13

Maraudian



Reya has been freed from the invading Sansha forces. Your efforts in this matter have not gone unnoticed and we are awarding you loyalty points. More details can be found in the Journal.



In addition, we wish to honor the following pilots, whose individual contribution exceeded everyone else:



1 0bscurum Skord 110821
2 Yeyra 110821
3 Maraudian 110821
4 KarlSteiner 110821
5 drifter1357 110821
6 Chandra K'ailar 103665
7 Judge Ment 98416
8 4Manimal 92045
9 dark102042 Arzi 86866



CONCORD


All ISN? :)


So you guys ran one incursion for a day! When you start popping Concord list up with 400k+ LP per pilot and they are all ISN ill be impressed. O wait TVP and its sister communities do that nearly every incursion..... But ISN makes more money... Dont be fooled. They cant keep fleets going enough to compete with the legit upfront incursion communities. They want to keep themselves seperate from TVP because its easy to have someone else do the work for you then claim your the best.

This is EVE if you cant be the best Grief the best and feel special about it.
Kodavor
Iz Doge Korp .
#51 - 2012-11-26 17:11:18 UTC
You , folk , amuse me . Please continue .
goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#52 - 2012-11-27 00:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldiiee
Ahvram wrote:
[quote=Maraudian][quote]So you guys ran one incursion for a day! When you start popping Concord list up with 400k+ LP per pilot and they are all ISN ill be impressed. O wait TVP and its sister communities do that nearly every incursion..... But ISN makes more money... Dont be fooled. They cant keep fleets going enough to compete with the legit upfront incursion communities. They want to keep themselves seperate from TVP because its easy to have someone else do the work for you then claim your the best.

This is EVE if you cant be the best Grief the best and feel special about it.



Took some time to decide if this even deserved an answer, still not sure but I figure I should at least correct some mistakes.

The incursion listed above was one we went to when it was in withdrawl. We arrived at 100% constellation control and ground down the control, spawned the kundalini, and popped the MOM in about 4 or 5 hours. It was my birthday so I remember it well.

As I look back at emails from completed Incursions I find at least one ISN member on virtually every top ten mail. So do ISN members make more ISK than TVP members? As a matter of pure ISK as a component of time, then yes. As a matter of total ISK in the pocket, probably not.

To explain in simpler terms if I spend 4 hours on in an ISN fleet I will make a minimum of 400 million ISK. If I spend 6 hours on I am usually awarded with 700 million ISK. As I personally like to play a little every day but only fleet up every other day I tend to add 1 to 2 billion to my wallet every week.

As you pointed out TVP has members on this list every time, I am not aware of how many hours these people had to spend in game doing Warp,Activate,f1,f1,f1,f1,f1,Warp, repeat ad infinitum, to get on that list, but I can extrapolate from the amount of time it takes for TVP to complete a site, and do the math. Averaging it out and leaving the boring math stuff on a scratch pad I am getting 33 hours in optimal fleet without breaks. The same amount of lP converted to time in an ISN fleet is 14 hours in optimal fleet without breaks.

So the next time you think contesting is griefing remember these numbers and think of the time we spend actually playing the game and not Warp,Activate,f1,f1,f1,f1,f1,……….

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.
LYGIA
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#53 - 2013-01-09 00:42:01 UTC
Good Information for Incursion ;)
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2013-01-09 10:37:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Tonali wrote:
1 0bscurum Skord 110821
2 Yeyra 110821
3 Maraudian 110821
4 KarlSteiner 110821
5 drifter1357 110821
6 Chandra K'ailar 103665
7 Judge Ment 98416
8 4Manimal 92045
9 dark102042 Arzi 86866

Before this recent drama started, those top numbers were around 400k LP each.
Makes me wonder what happened recently, really. I used to run incursions with a small community a couple of months ago and every one lasted almost a week. Today it almost looks like by the time our lads reach new incursion, it is popped Big smile

Someone really likes traveling and waiting for low/null sec incursions to expire.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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