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I see, youre proposing that ring mining will supplant moon harvesting completely . . . Im not sure that the math works out on that properly. Assuming that you only get one material at a time when mining/harvesting from the moons, depending on how they did it, you would either see T2 go to 0 or see it jump WAY up in price.

Assuming that miners would simply go over to something else (like back to mining ABCM ores) in 0.0 if it would make them more isk, which i assume is a pretty safe assumption, then we can set a base isk/hour at around 27 million (even given the awful prices of zydrine and megacyte)

To compete with that, you'd have to get 325 technetium per hour. This means that if there are 8 people ring mining for each technetium moon that used to exist, they only need to mine for 1 hour each to keep the current supply of tech in the game.

Id say thats a conservative estimate because, with as many people as the goons have, there will be TONS of ring miners.

ofc, this is all assumptions, but I would say none of the intuitive leaps I took are outrageous; I did the same kind of math with gas cloud harvesting, and I found that I was within 20% of the price.

Yea, what about this?

100 Scandium + 100 Chromium -> 1 Unrefined Solerium -> 20 Solerium + 90 Chromium
100 Scandium + 100 Cadmium -> 1 Unrefined Caesarium Cadmide -> 20 Caesarium Cadmide + 90 Cadmium

One of those Scandiums should be a Tungsten! Every other R8 is repeated only twice. Scandium is repeated 3 times and Tungsten is repeated once.

Policy can have unintended consequences.


Going to use Goons as an example. For PVPrs what could be better than having your ships replaced when they go boom. you log in, go fight, loose a ship and get it replaced. Except there is a down side for the alliance.


So here we go. The rest of us do some PVE activity to pay for our PVP. It might be ratting, might be some sort of resource collection. For the Goon rank and file this does not necessarily happen which of course means a shortage of material with which to wage war in your area. Its not like its not there. SImply put there are better ways to spend ones time doing the things you really like doing. (which may keep some in the game when they would otherwise quit) It does though lead to not having enough Veld to make those supercarriers.. or drakes So you import.

What hits the press is that NS has to do all this importing of basic raw material and it just isn't fair. Well, in part policy is driving it. Your players do not have to PVE to replace their drake, or even tengue.

There is alot of work that should be done to help 0.0 be better for alliance warfare, but sometimes alliance policy can or could be having an unforseen impact and should be looked at first.


Yes to fixing tax methods and policy. I want it for my WH corp as well. its a big paperwork headache.
Yes to fixing pos's so they are easier to work and more production can be done.

Yes to giving a few incentives to everyone that lives on the edge, LS, NS, and WH space, but do not gimp HS to do it. Players in HS like thier HS and play the game their way. The rest of us play the game we like. My game is not yours. It is why this is such a great sandbox.



And yes, I want to ring mine so please do not leave it out of WHs. We like our home as much as NS likes theirs. Not that we will ever do alot of it. :)



every policy has good points and bad points.

Exactly. Supply and demand works that way. If t2 cruisers are cheap, people will fly them. Perhaps not all of them all the time, but there are plenty of them that are fine ships and if t2 cruisers were the equivalent cost to battlecruisers, I bet ya that people will roam in them. They are tougher and better used with logistics and have small sig and are generally faster than their BC counter parts. That sounds roamtastic no ? As it stands, there is little reason to use HACs over BCs purely because of risk vs reward. People do care about their killboards and particularly they care about not bankrupting their members. The minor disadvantages of using BC hulls is more than made up by their cheapness. If you whelp all your canes, you lose like 50mil per guy. No big deal. If you whelp HACs its a minimum of 200mil lost.

As should be evident from the old insurance estimates on t2 cruisers, they were supposed to cost like 30-40mil each (in 2008 isk, when a billion was a serious achievement) with performance balanced to that price window, then the prices never ever ever ever got there. Blueprints limited them, and t2 goo, and then alchemy wasn't great, then invention guys could barely break even, even with max skills. EVERYTHING done to t2 manufacturing so not been enough.

Rather than nerfing the bejesus out of BCs, or boosting HACs (or otherwise directly adressing the whole 'Why should I bother training HACs when BCs do the job with practically no skills' issue) it looks like CCP is going to take another swipe at getting the economy balanced so their current performance window is balanced by their cost. Particularly now that t3 ships are de rigeur for srspvp, t2 ships need to get cheap or just be totally forgotten.

Exactly, right now, cost is a consideration, and if you're rich and well skilled, you can field the AHAC gang and do amazing things; if the cost went to 50 million, NOBODY would fly battlecruisers anymore because cost is no longer a consideration.

See the problem with eliminating large swaths of the game content?



No, insurance wasnt meant to cover the cost of T2, when you lost a T2 ship, it was supposed to be expensive because T2 was supposed to be a luxury not something evernyone has which is what would happen if they made ring mining profitable enough


Great, and when the T2 ships get cheap it will be the T1 ships that get totally forgotten . . . fantastic!

Oh I dont really think they'll completely supplant moons with rings, and as the poster below me pointed out up there, they dont need to.

I was just saying, they have a real opportunity to ruin eve if they do it even a little wrong.

Because people like you make it a necessity to force you to PVP.

you cant moon mine in high sec for the same reason you cant moon mine in WH space; its even worse in high sec. Without cap ships, POS defenses are lethal to battleship fleets if well manned, and basically impenetrable if defended by a fleet.

This means that any moons worth taking would be first come first serve, and the corps that got them would never lose them.

Have you considered buying cheaper ships? This is EvE there should not be free rides.