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New dev blog: Tech is fine l2p

First post First post
Author
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#701 - 2012-07-24 20:02:02 UTC
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:
Wibla wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
When do we start discussing the complete T2 overhaul? You know, the only way to fix this that doesn't result in all moon minerals being worth fuel cost.


About 3 months too late to make a difference, seeing as EVE just got a lot more boring.

Removing the main conflict driver in 0.0 and effectively neutering suicide ganking of miners in highsec.

Adding insult to injury, the people who really benefit from the barge/exhumer changes are botters... Roll


Neutering Ganking suicide miners = lot more boring? What is more boring than an easy gank against an undefended and untanked hulk? I guess if griefing is what you enjoy that it might become less boring for you.. But I'd much rather engage in real PVP than suicide ganking. Having somebody shoot back is far more fun. Unless you're afraid of opposition.


Any easy gank against an undefended target is what everyone in this game craves, they just like to call it "small gang PvP" whereas we simply call it was it really is.

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

Jeremy Soikutsu
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#702 - 2012-07-24 20:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremy Soikutsu
Wibla wrote:
and effectively neutering suicide ganking of miners in highsec.

Oh shut the **** up. There will still be plenty of untanked and Hulk miners in high, max yield is still the name of the game to a lot of people. Maybe you have to use a couple more Cats or a Tornado, but you'll still come out ahead.

"Of course you would choose the fun, but you don't lead a relevant entity which has allies." - Colonel Xaven

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#703 - 2012-07-24 20:04:22 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
and effectively neutering suicide ganking of miners in highsec.

Oh shut the **** up. There will still be plenty of untanked and Hulk miners in high, max yield is still the name of the game to a lot of people. Maybe you have to use a couple more Cats or a Tornado, but you'll still come out ahead.

afk miners are stupidly well tanked by default
Artemis Picoazaksat
Void Bureau
#704 - 2012-07-24 20:55:34 UTC
Unless this implements in exactly THIS way I will never be happy! X

So shall it be written, so shall it be done!
Dramaticus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#705 - 2012-07-24 21:17:46 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
and effectively neutering suicide ganking of miners in highsec.

Oh shut the **** up. There will still be plenty of untanked and Hulk miners in high, max yield is still the name of the game to a lot of people. Maybe you have to use a couple more Cats or a Tornado, but you'll still come out ahead.


I also didn't write what you're quoting so yeah you're being a bit of a moron

The 'do-nothing' member of the GoonSwarm Economic Warfare Cabal

The edge is REALLY hard to see at times but it DOES exist and in this case we were looking at a situation where a new feature created for all of our customers was being virtually curbstomped by five of them

Sigras
Conglomo
#706 - 2012-07-24 22:29:16 UTC
Wibla wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
When do we start discussing the complete T2 overhaul? You know, the only way to fix this that doesn't result in all moon minerals being worth fuel cost.


About 3 months too late to make a difference, seeing as EVE just got a lot more boring.

Removing the main conflict driver in 0.0 and effectively neutering suicide ganking of miners in highsec.

Adding insult to injury, the people who really benefit from the barge/exhumer changes are botters... Roll


yeah because XDeath got wiped out so Solar could profit from all their tech moons Roll

And Im sure all that Tech in Delve is really what motivated TEST to invade. Roll

Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#707 - 2012-07-24 22:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hi everyone. I wanted to thank all of you who are giving feedback on these changes. I'm reading every single post here and every blog I can find on the topic.

Special thanks to Akita T and everyone else who have posted their calculations on the potential results of these changes on the market. No better way to get my math double checked than to have experienced market gurus posting theirs.

We've now announced the release date for Inferno 1.2 so I can go ahead and let you all know that this first round of changes goes live on August 8th.

Happy posting!


Thanks for listening, and for being willing to modify your plans based on player feedback.

Not sure if this will be viable, but have you considered adding multiple alchemy formulas for the same end material? That would make it somewhat more difficult for current Technetium holders to manipulate the market, and would thereby make Alchemy a somewhat more viable "safety valve." At the moment, folk like Goonswarm have literally trillions of ISK to spend on market manipulation, which means they can render alchemy unprofitable at will for the next few years. Although their current Technetium income won't be going anywhere anytime soon, unless Ring Mining or other similar feature is much further along than most of us suspect.

Along that line of thought, if a proper fix to the Technetium debacle isn't going to be ready by Winter 2012, it may make sense to simply redistribute moons randomly. Assuming competent back-end code that doesn't require ten thousand man-hours to modify.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#708 - 2012-07-25 00:38:03 UTC
Jeremy Soikutsu wrote:
Dramaticus wrote:
and effectively neutering suicide ganking of miners in highsec.

Oh shut the **** up. There will still be plenty of untanked and Hulk miners in high, max yield is still the name of the game to a lot of people. Maybe you have to use a couple more Cats or a Tornado, but you'll still come out ahead.


You can achieve maximum yield in a hulk and still have 27k EHP now if you're not dumb and go with a proper passive fit (instead of some crappy active tank). That makes you immune to 4-5 catalysts worth of damage, at least.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#709 - 2012-07-25 00:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Promiscuous Female
yeah

packaging a tech nerf with a suicide gank nerf amplifies the effect of both in hilarious ways now that technetium and plat tech are essentially chained to isotope prices thanks to driving the cost of the former to fuel cost

so, essentially, we here at GBS Logisitcs and Fives Support thank you for giving CCP SREEGS more work to do now that you've made it risk-free to operate an ice mining bot in highsec
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#710 - 2012-07-25 00:45:19 UTC
not to mention the removal of the only conflict driver in 0.0
Sigras
Conglomo
#711 - 2012-07-25 01:40:49 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
not to mention the removal of the only conflict driver in 0.0

yeah because XDeath got wiped out so Solar could profit from all their tech moons Roll

And Im sure all that Tech in Delve is really what motivated TEST to invade. Roll

Thats probably why -A- is going to attack them in fact.Roll

/sarcasm

honestly guys, if you think moons are the only conflict driver anywhere you should really take another look at human nature.
steave435
Perkone
Caldari State
#712 - 2012-07-25 02:32:10 UTC  |  Edited by: steave435
Airto TLA wrote:
The moon minerals always have a value, even if their net extraction cost is negative


Normally you'd be right, but in this case we're talking about a mineral so worthless that it's not even worth hauling. A JF full of it would still only give you 175m at 500/unit, and since there's so much cobalt around that you'd be very stupid to not put your reaction tower on one, there won't be any increase in demand for it. No one running the reactions will have a need to buy it since they get it from the moon, and you won't need any more cobalt for the other reactions then you did before, thus no change in price after the speculation settle down.
If I had a stack of cobalt somewhere, I would literally trash it instead of hauling it.
Lee Thrace
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#713 - 2012-07-25 02:33:58 UTC
Take your time and do it right? You've already taken too long, and by the time you're done the amount of iso accrued by those who held the moons while you were farting on your hands is going to put them on an unfair tactical footing making null sec a de facto player run empire.



Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#714 - 2012-07-25 02:34:43 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
not to mention the removal of the only conflict driver in 0.0

yeah because XDeath got wiped out so Solar could profit from all their tech moons Roll

And Im sure all that Tech in Delve is really what motivated TEST to invade. Roll

Thats probably why -A- is going to attack them in fact.Roll

/sarcasm

honestly guys, if you think moons are the only conflict driver anywhere you should really take another look at human nature.

this just in, pubbie renter shirtlord thinks he knows 0.0 politics

i'm surprised you are even allowed to post on eveo with your main
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#715 - 2012-07-25 02:35:31 UTC
Funny, and here I thought the point of nullsec WAS to be a player-run empire.

Granted, with lots of death happening, but still a player-run empire.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Sigras
Conglomo
#716 - 2012-07-25 02:41:43 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Promiscuous Female wrote:
not to mention the removal of the only conflict driver in 0.0

yeah because XDeath got wiped out so Solar could profit from all their tech moons Roll

And Im sure all that Tech in Delve is really what motivated TEST to invade. Roll

Thats probably why -A- is going to attack them in fact.Roll

/sarcasm

honestly guys, if you think moons are the only conflict driver anywhere you should really take another look at human nature.

this just in, pubbie renter shirtlord thinks he knows 0.0 politics

i'm surprised you are even allowed to post on eveo with your main

This just in, good arguments include rebuttal

if you think im wrong prove it.

and yes, they let me post with my main because im not an idiot . . . i guess your alliance doesnt have a similar restriction.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#717 - 2012-07-25 02:50:47 UTC
solar and xdeath was sparked by tech drama in geminate

CFC smackdown of d/q/pb was to neuter a growing coalition of shirtlords who had recently been in the north aiding raidendot in their abortive attempts at stealing our tech

got any other conflicts in the last year for me to explain or is this enough
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#718 - 2012-07-25 02:51:31 UTC
3 reasons to hold space prior to patch:
1) Moons.
2) Build supercaps.
3) **** off someone who wanted the space you just took away from them.

Post patch:
1) Build supercaps
2) **** off someone who wanted the space you took away from them.

Ahh, progress.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Sigras
Conglomo
#719 - 2012-07-25 03:03:24 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
solar and xdeath was sparked by tech drama in geminate

CFC smackdown of d/q/pb was to neuter a growing coalition of shirtlords who had recently been in the north aiding raidendot in their abortive attempts at stealing our tech

got any other conflicts in the last year for me to explain or is this enough


xDeath and solar was started over theft not tech.

That being said, the majority of the conflicts in the history of the human race have not been about economy, and eve accurately reflects this.

People attack others and hold space because they simply dont like other people. They want their space to the exclusion of everyone else.

Im sorry that CCP is nerfing your easy mode ISK generation, but, that doesnt make it useless - Even after the change, Tech is gonna be worth around 75,000 isk/unit (thats 4 BILLION a month even if you dont react it to anything)
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#720 - 2012-07-25 03:14:31 UTC
try 40,000

and that's with a conservative estimate of 600 isk / unit topes