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Is this game for morons only?

First post
Author
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-07-20 11:54:27 UTC
Psichotic wrote:
dexington wrote:
Eve is not modeled on some middle age romantic notion of honor and valor, where gallant knights duel in hopes of winning the heart of the princess. In real life if you are about to get into a bar fight, and the other guy tells you that he think you should go outside and finish it. You really should stay inside, chances are he just wants to get you in a situation where he and his friends will have the advantage of numbers.

That is how eve is.

It sounds like you speak from experience. Personally I have a CCW, so unlike Eve, I would only have to fight if I chose to. However, if you're going to carry a gun you have to be prepared to use it, and unlike Eve, people don't get dropped into a new clone body after they die. They just die. So I would say comparing real life to Eve is apples to oranges. Anyway, I think there is a very big gap between strict adherence to chivalrous rules of combat and justifying the snake in the grass tactics a lot of people use in Eve. Those are extremes. Somewhere in the middle is a realistic balance, and it is achieved quite well in most video games, to the mutual benefit of the players and the publishers.



EVE is not most video games & is not supposed to be fair, to the mutual benefit of it's players & the publishers.

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Psichotic
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-07-22 01:09:28 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Psichotic wrote:
dexington wrote:
Eve is not modeled on some middle age romantic notion of honor and valor, where gallant knights duel in hopes of winning the heart of the princess. In real life if you are about to get into a bar fight, and the other guy tells you that he think you should go outside and finish it. You really should stay inside, chances are he just wants to get you in a situation where he and his friends will have the advantage of numbers.

That is how eve is.

Somewhere in the middle is a realistic balance, and it is achieved quite well in most video games, to the mutual benefit of the players and the publishers.



EVE is not most video games & is not supposed to be fair, to the mutual benefit of it's players & the publishers.


Perhaps not, but it is supposed to be profitable, and the fact is Eve has a few hundred thousand accounts (300K???) in a 6 billion dollar market. CCP is a business. It is competing with other businesses. It is wise to read the tea leaves of the market and adjust your strategy accordingly. Whatever Eve is supposed to be, whatever you or I or CCP wants it to be, is completely irrelevant to what the market wants. The market is what pays for Eve - or doesn't pay for Eve, as the case may be.

So the question is: will more people pay for Eve it is is more fair and more friendly? I think so and I definitely do not think you have to turn it into My Little Pony in order to do so.

This is taken from a paper published by Dept of Computer Science & Enggeering at the University of Minnesota. They recieved funding for the project from the NSF and the Army Research Institute:

Churn Prediction in MMORPGs: A Social Influence Based Approach wrote:
Churn is a big problem for the gaming companies as churners impact negatively in the word- of-mouth reports for potential and existing customers leading to further erosion of user base.


Churn is the biggest problem facing established MMORPGs. If CCP wants to reduce its churn rate, I assert they need to take a good look at what their competitors are doing and see if they can replicate some of their success by adjusting their products, marketing, goals and corporate culture. According to researchers in the aforementioned study driving your customers away has the secondary adverse consequence of creating a bad name for yourself. I do not see that taken into account in their corporate culture or game design. If CCP wants to realize its true potential - which would result in solidifying the financial futures of its employees and allowing capital to be directed towards future projects - they need to make major changes in order to reduce churn. The first of which being making Eve a place people want to play in despite the fact they do not share the current customer base's proclivities. Eve has some thousands of systems, and I see no reason the entirety of Eve has to be directed at only one type of player. If miners want a section, there should be a place for miners. If traders want a section there should be a place for traders. It makes business sense and I cannot understand why CCP hasn't realized that.

I don't expect most of the people reading this forum to agree. By definition you are non-churners. It is not you CCP needs to worry about retaining, it is the people walking away because they don't like being griefed or the game is too hard or expensive. If CCP is happy limping along, and apparently to many that is either acceptable or they believe its the best they can do, they should continue to do what they have been doing.

Bottom line: I believe that if they want better results they need to change more than game mechanics or improve the technology,they need to change their entire attitude towards their customer base. I could be wrong, but I'm probably not.



Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-07-22 01:20:30 UTC
/closed a QQ op post
Fager
Xel'Naga Corp
#164 - 2012-07-22 02:53:40 UTC
Psichotic wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Psichotic wrote:
dexington wrote:
Eve is not modeled on some middle age romantic notion of honor and valor, where gallant knights duel in hopes of winning the heart of the princess. In real life if you are about to get into a bar fight, and the other guy tells you that he think you should go outside and finish it. You really should stay inside, chances are he just wants to get you in a situation where he and his friends will have the advantage of numbers.

That is how eve is.

Somewhere in the middle is a realistic balance, and it is achieved quite well in most video games, to the mutual benefit of the players and the publishers.



EVE is not most video games & is not supposed to be fair, to the mutual benefit of it's players & the publishers.


Perhaps not, but it is supposed to be profitable, and the fact is Eve has a few hundred thousand accounts (300K???) in a 6 billion dollar market. CCP is a business. It is competing with other businesses. It is wise to read the tea leaves of the market and adjust your strategy accordingly. Whatever Eve is supposed to be, whatever you or I or CCP wants it to be, is completely irrelevant to what the market wants. The market is what pays for Eve - or doesn't pay for Eve, as the case may be.

So the question is: will more people pay for Eve it is is more fair and more friendly? I think so and I definitely do not think you have to turn it into My Little Pony in order to do so.

This is taken from a paper published by Dept of Computer Science & Enggeering at the University of Minnesota. They recieved funding for the project from the NSF and the Army Research Institute:

Churn Prediction in MMORPGs: A Social Influence Based Approach wrote:
Churn is a big problem for the gaming companies as churners impact negatively in the word- of-mouth reports for potential and existing customers leading to further erosion of user base.


Churn is the biggest problem facing established MMORPGs. If CCP wants to reduce its churn rate, I assert they need to take a good look at what their competitors are doing and see if they can replicate some of their success by adjusting their products, marketing, goals and corporate culture. According to researchers in the aforementioned study driving your customers away has the secondary adverse consequence of creating a bad name for yourself. I do not see that taken into account in their corporate culture or game design. If CCP wants to realize its true potential - which would result in solidifying the financial futures of its employees and allowing capital to be directed towards future projects - they need to make major changes in order to reduce churn. The first of which being making Eve a place people want to play in despite the fact they do not share the current customer base's proclivities. Eve has some thousands of systems, and I see no reason the entirety of Eve has to be directed at only one type of player. If miners want a section, there should be a place for miners. If traders want a section there should be a place for traders. It makes business sense and I cannot understand why CCP hasn't realized that.

I don't expect most of the people reading this forum to agree. By definition you are non-churners. It is not you CCP needs to worry about retaining, it is the people walking away because they don't like being griefed or the game is too hard or expensive. If CCP is happy limping along, and apparently to many that is either acceptable or they believe its the best they can do, they should continue to do what they have been doing.

Bottom line: I believe that if they want better results they need to change more than game mechanics or improve the technology,they need to change their entire attitude towards their customer base. I could be wrong, but I'm probably not.





EvE was making profit when it had 2k players on prime time.
EvE is making profit with 20k-50k players online 23/7.

If EvE cnages to be WoW in space, it will loose a big chunk of its players, WoW players wont move from their community, The games designed for more casual "fair" play will be by default better designedthen EvE for it, making competition into that market a bad idea.

EvE is not competing for the whole MMO player base, neither is WoW.
EvE is competing for the playerbase looking for a ruthless sandbox game, i think they pretty much got 95% of that playerbase covered and still baptising more every month (except the incarna expansion, witch was kinda WoW:ish compared).

Incarna (witch introduced avatars, and is supposed to be made mostely for the barbie-game, PvE, social aspects witch im personally think its awesome) was pretty much the only expansion that didnt grow number of players for the game since 2003?
Sandbox expensions with more broken and unfair changes that gets fixxed 1-5(lookin at you FW) years later have brought more players in.

So now tell me again how ignoring the playerbase EvE pretty much got monopoly on (sandbox) in this age and trying to change it to compete with the market that no other publisher has succeded in since WoW is a good idea?

Tell me again how history has shown us that EvE needs more Fair game to succeed...

-_-

Regards, a EvE player who has played on and of and always comes back since 2003 - Because EvE is unfair, up to the player to make sure he/shes on the good side of the unfair line.
Fager
Xel'Naga Corp
#165 - 2012-07-22 02:58:03 UTC
And yes im being overly dramatic in my previous post, i kinda just went with the Vibe i got from previous posters Cool
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#166 - 2012-07-25 00:05:58 UTC
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
Merovee wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:
Roisin Corcra wrote:
If not, is it actually the intention of this game to do this? If so, I'm out of here


When you undock from a station you are consenting to take part in pvp whether in 0.0, lowsec or highsec. There is no feature designed to prevent aggression from other players... other than docking.


I wish CCP would put a pop up that would say just that so all n00bs would get it.

There's only so many ways it can be hinted at.

Problem is some people are to dumb to understand a hint. You gotta come right out and tell them...
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2012-07-25 00:07:08 UTC
I can't believe this troll thread is still going strong... Roll

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#168 - 2012-07-25 00:16:28 UTC
Psichotic wrote:
Churn is the biggest problem facing established MMORPGs.
…and CCP has chosen to approach that problem by not doing what their competitors is doing and instead build a game with pretty remarkable stickiness. The game never runs out of content because it has no real built-in content to begin with.

What their competitors are doing is exactly the reason why those competitors have burned out in very short order.

Quote:
If miners want a section, there should be a place for miners. If traders want a section there should be a place for traders. It makes business sense and I cannot understand why CCP hasn't realized that.
They have. That's why the built a game where both of those are quite important. What they haven't done is build a game where each is done in complete isolation, because that would not be very viable in the long run.

CCP is not happily limping along — it's on a pleasant stroll. “Limping along” is what those competitors are doing after they stumbled and broke their ankles one month after release as they tried to do what everyone else was doing (and failing) and thinking that doing the same would suddenly yield different results. Well… some of them are limping along. The rest are already face-down in the mud.
Derath Ellecon
Lotek Academy
#169 - 2012-07-25 01:56:03 UTC
People can talk all they want about what they think is happening with EVE and subscriptions.

Once again the graph. I dunno about you but EVE has one of the healthiest curves. Pretty steady upward trend. Sure a few bumps but still going in the right direction

http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

Bunolagus
NIPTO
#170 - 2012-07-25 02:20:47 UTC
Find a region like Solitude with a very low population. Move your medical clone to one of the stations there (ie Octanneve). I was never approached while mining there. Minerals don't sell as fast, but there is plenty of market to keep you busy.
Lexmana
#171 - 2012-07-25 07:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Roisin Corcra wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Well i dont know if you are troll or just noob. So im not going to btching you so here are some hints.

-Do not mine in main trade hub area, even 5j from those hubs are dangerous.
- search dotlan maps and find yourself quiet and "safe" space to mine. (Derelik for example.)


Just a noob. The dotlan thing is quite useful, wish I had that two weeks ago. Mind you, I'm not taking this game that serious, just trying it out, it's supposed to be fun. But I'm getting the distinct impression that everyone is rather serious, focused and intense, you know, the sort of thing I'd expect at work. Then again, I never could figure out, when someone is doing role playing stupid talk and when it's just real person moronic, may be that's were I go wrong. Bring back games without a chat option!


This game is a challenge and that is where the fun is. You have to learn and adapt. Looks like you just learned something. But are you willing to adapt?

Quote:
Bring back games without a chat option!

Those are called single player games.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#172 - 2012-07-25 07:15:08 UTC
Mor on what?

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar

Ron Maudieu
#173 - 2012-07-25 08:25:16 UTC
Think the most challenging part of this game is finding a good corp imo
Gustavus Adolphus
Croatoan Enterprises
#174 - 2012-07-26 06:07:02 UTC
Roisin Corcra wrote:
Anybody please tell me, how to play this game without constantly getting harassed by idiotic players, mostly noobs, which are just wasting my time and spoiling any fun. I'm relatively new myself, just getting into the mining and building side of things, and if I want to fight anyone, I'll go into the lowsec. But while I'm not in the mood for fighting, I stay in the hisec and surely there must be a setting or something, that prohibits others to force me into a fight there (well, I usually mine there, so it's just a matter of them shooting me really, not a fight really). It's not even being blown up that's annoying or loosing a ship, it's cheap to replace, but the time wasted in getting blown up (obviously you get webbed and then it takes them 10-20 minutes to destroy a retriever, because they are inept) and wasted in replacing it is really turning me of this game (aside from the fact, that it takes months before you can fly any halfway decent ship).

So, anybody can tell me either way, is there a setting or something, where I can stop those morons? If not, is it actually the intention of this game to do this? If so, I'm out of here, I have to deal with enough morons in real life, and I couldn't be bothered to do so and call it "entertainment". There is other better games out there, some are even free. To think I was even considering getting a second account on the current special offer - uugh.


You need to brush up on some of the meta game, learn about some of the boundless tools for Eve that are outside of the game. You will never 100% get away, since you are content being sold to others, but you can mitigate you risk somewhat.
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#175 - 2012-07-26 09:46:50 UTC
So much hate... so much trolling... so little help...

EvE is a griefer's game. PvP or PvE it has little importance. People will scam you, blow you up, backstab you, rob your corp, and everybody cheers every time something like that happens. Not everyone is like that, but the majority of trolls that ask to "delete high-sec" usually try their utmost to make their point the only valid truth.

You can however, avoid those, and if willing so, stay out of PvP, although the game becomes a bit restricted.

When I started, I just followed a few rules, and up to today, I'm yet to be ganged or loose a ship to can flippers.

1 - Set up your Overview so it can be helpful. Maybe the most important tip. EvE University has a great guide about it:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Overview_Guide

2 - If it is not yours, don't touch it. "Free lootz, just take it" cans and the like are major scams.

3 - Is it valuable? Make sure you're transporting it into something that would be hard to gang or unworthy of it. I've transported several valuables several times, but few really felt like ganging a 150k eHP Battleship. Everything can be destroyed, but if they are in small numbers or if that will cost them too much and they might break even, they won't do it.

4 - Always check your Corp -> Wars before undocking. Takes a few seconds, saves a lot of ISK.

5 - If you're undocked, you should NOT be AFK.

Btw, if you were harassed in a starting area, just make a petition. CCP already said hundreds of times for griefer's to leave starting areas alone, so they would not scare new players.

Last but not least, EvE University ( http://www.eveuniversity.org ) has a LOT of tutorials and guides on how to do this and that on most aspects of the game. As far as I remember, you do not need to be a member of "EvE University" corp to take part of the classes they provide, and most of those classes are recorded and provided as audio files for download. If you haven't checked them out, I strongly advise you to do so.

I hope these hints help.

Fly safe, enjoy the game.

--== EvE Online Quick Reference Sheet: E-Uni Forums Link / EvE Forums Link ==--

Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2012-07-26 11:03:21 UTC
Posting in the longest on-going troll thread in the history of the forums.

Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you.

Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#177 - 2012-07-26 14:21:24 UTC
The fact I am playing this game pretty much proves it's for morons. Wait. That didn't come out right. What?

Bring your possibles.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#178 - 2012-07-26 14:22:31 UTC
As it stands this game isn't for morons, but it looks like that's CCP Soundwave's vision for highsec.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Wolf Kruol
Suicide Squad Gamma
#179 - 2012-07-26 15:18:08 UTC
I like to look as eve is for all types of people. Different classes, races, etc. Morons included. Blink

Now for the rest. I will link this quote,

Quote= Malcanis

"You consent to PvP when you undock your ships, whether you accept this or not. There is no entitlement to safety."


This is eve. Before signing onto a game do some research in your investment. Like some have posted read forums or do google search. Understand what your getting yourself into.

To behonest ccp is making eve more highsec friendly. Every new patch there making noobs safer... Blink Still there is no guaranty of safety with all the ccp concord cheats against the pvpers.

In most cases eve isn't for you.

bye bye now. Twisted

Wolf

“If you're very very stupid? How can you possibly realize you're very very stupid?

You have to be relatively intelligent to realize how stupid you really are!”

Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
#180 - 2012-07-26 15:53:10 UTC
Roisin Corcra wrote:
Anybody please tell me, how to play this game without constantly getting harassed by idiotic players, mostly noobs, which are just wasting my time and spoiling any fun. I'm relatively new myself, just getting into the mining and building side of things, and if I want to fight anyone, I'll go into the lowsec. But while I'm not in the mood for fighting, I stay in the hisec and surely there must be a setting or something, that prohibits others to force me into a fight there (well, I usually mine there, so it's just a matter of them shooting me really, not a fight really). It's not even being blown up that's annoying or loosing a ship, it's cheap to replace, but the time wasted in getting blown up (obviously you get webbed and then it takes them 10-20 minutes to destroy a retriever, because they are inept) and wasted in replacing it is really turning me of this game (aside from the fact, that it takes months before you can fly any halfway decent ship).

So, anybody can tell me either way, is there a setting or something, where I can stop those morons? If not, is it actually the intention of this game to do this? If so, I'm out of here, I have to deal with enough morons in real life, and I couldn't be bothered to do so and call it "entertainment". There is other better games out there, some are even free. To think I was even considering getting a second account on the current special offer - uugh.


No one has asked the obvious question. Can I have your stuff?
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