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Vindicator: Hype or is it Really the ship killer?
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-07-19 17:54:52 UTC
warzonetemp wrote:
After watching the alliance tournaments and mulling over the buffed blaster set up of the Gallente ships, I wonder if the Vindicator really is the most powerful subcap ship in the game right now.

I can't think of another ship that would equal it outside a Kronos (which sucks in regular PvP) in terms of raw DPS, anyone have a thought?



At is not TQ but shows a little bit the possibilities in "certain circumstances" that YOU need to realise before thinking "A" is OP and "B" is crap.
Vindicator is probably the best DPS in perfect circumstances, however TQ is not about perfect circumstances and Vindicator suffers as all armor blaster ships of meh speed even under MWD, cap hungry modules making it the target of choice for kitting teams or decent dps/sign tanking.
We've seen Sleipnirs all over the place, not because those are overpowered but because those have a tremendous flexibility witch leads at the end as much fun as you can have with a Vindicator but for less 3x Vindi price tag without pimp.

Yes Vindi is awesome for pvp, no Vindi is not the ship you're going to see all over the place because armor tanking as a whole is in deep need of work, however after this is done and if ever armor tanking ships get better mobility and engagement options Vindi might need some dps or web nerf.

Just a point of view.

brb
Taurich Vorsel
#22 - 2012-07-19 18:17:13 UTC
Roime wrote:
Gets close in price, not sure about other stats, but a selection of very hurtful drones to taste.

[Dominix Navy Issue, Infernavy]
[a terrible idea]
raw stats (cold, unboosted and drug-free)

1723 dps
101K EHP
1177 hp/s

Sell plexes, plug in some hardwires, eat pills, have a Tengu, evoke fear on your nearest trade hub undock.

All hail ~Elite PVP~

God that's awful

You can slap (dual) ancil on anything, including the vindi if you so wish, and it'll be waaaaay better than that domi
Plus drone as major portion of dps is suck for PvP

Copine Callmeknau disappeared one day now we are left with Taurich Vorsel AKA BIZARRO COPE!
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-07-19 20:49:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
If you want to look at it that way, it's pretty spectacular in WH space too. You're pretty well guaranteed that people are gonna show up at 5km from you.


TBH, not really.
Serious WH fights tend to be calculated based on how much your T3s can handle and if you throw no resist, massive sig BSs into that mix, youre just going to lose them when the enemy sneezes at them.
That isnt even counting any BS getting instapopped by dreads if theyre on field.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#24 - 2012-07-19 21:41:32 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
If you want to look at it that way, it's pretty spectacular in WH space too. You're pretty well guaranteed that people are gonna show up at 5km from you.


TBH, not really.
Serious WH fights tend to be calculated based on how much your T3s can handle and if you throw no resist, massive sig BSs into that mix, youre just going to lose them when the enemy sneezes at them.
That isnt even counting any BS getting instapopped by dreads if theyre on field.


I'll take your word on that, but I spent 2 years in WH space and never saw a massive T3/Dread blob. But I did see countless times when a Vindi would have been The Ship To Have. Maybe it's a matter of scale and it would be a bad idea in the C5/C6 wars.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#25 - 2012-07-19 22:32:07 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
If you want to look at it that way, it's pretty spectacular in WH space too. You're pretty well guaranteed that people are gonna show up at 5km from you.


TBH, not really.
Serious WH fights tend to be calculated based on how much your T3s can handle and if you throw no resist, massive sig BSs into that mix, youre just going to lose them when the enemy sneezes at them.
That isnt even counting any BS getting instapopped by dreads if theyre on field.


I'll take your word on that, but I spent 2 years in WH space and never saw a massive T3/Dread blob. But I did see countless times when a Vindi would have been The Ship To Have. Maybe it's a matter of scale and it would be a bad idea in the C5/C6 wars.

-Liang



This is why you always see tons of t3's in the large scale wh battlereports. Sometimes you will see a Vindi or Kronos, but you usually see triage carriers ect with them. You'd be surprised how fast things die when lokis and tracking dreads show up on grid.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#26 - 2012-07-19 22:40:51 UTC
chris elliot wrote:

This is why you always see tons of t3's in the large scale wh battlereports. Sometimes you will see a Vindi or Kronos, but you usually see triage carriers ect with them. You'd be surprised how fast things die when lokis and tracking dreads show up on grid.


Heh, I'm more than willing to learn if you'll take a max skill armor triage niddy pilot. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-07-20 03:14:54 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
chris elliot wrote:

This is why you always see tons of t3's in the large scale wh battlereports. Sometimes you will see a Vindi or Kronos, but you usually see triage carriers ect with them. You'd be surprised how fast things die when lokis and tracking dreads show up on grid.


Heh, I'm more than willing to learn if you'll take a max skill armor triage niddy pilot. :)

-Liang


if youre serious about running triage in a WH you need to cross train to archon.
(recovering thanny pilot here, been clean 5 months or so.)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#28 - 2012-07-20 04:57:40 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
chris elliot wrote:

This is why you always see tons of t3's in the large scale wh battlereports. Sometimes you will see a Vindi or Kronos, but you usually see triage carriers ect with them. You'd be surprised how fast things die when lokis and tracking dreads show up on grid.


Heh, I'm more than willing to learn if you'll take a max skill armor triage niddy pilot. :)

-Liang


if youre serious about running triage in a WH you need to cross train to archon.
(recovering thanny pilot here, been clean 5 months or so.)


I dunno, the fittings boost opened up some very interesting options that make the Nidhoggur at least an interesting choice.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-07-20 06:17:05 UTC
You actually can do a shield kititng vindi, the 29km 90% web is great combined witht he the range of null and the speed of the thing (3k with heat, 2k without). Eats 100mn tengus for breakfast.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2012-07-20 06:23:08 UTC
Taurich Vorsel wrote:
Roime wrote:
Gets close in price, not sure about other stats, but a selection of very hurtful drones to taste.

[Dominix Navy Issue, Infernavy]
[a terrible idea]
raw stats (cold, unboosted and drug-free)

1723 dps
101K EHP
1177 hp/s

Sell plexes, plug in some hardwires, eat pills, have a Tengu, evoke fear on your nearest trade hub undock.

All hail ~Elite PVP~

God that's awful

You can slap (dual) ancil on anything, including the vindi if you so wish, and it'll be waaaaay better than that domi
Plus drone as major portion of dps is suck for PvP


I don't disagree :) it's an obvious EFTwarrior fit to see how much hurt you can pump out.

However, your comment about drones shows that you don't really have any idea what you are talking about.

.
Taurich Vorsel
#31 - 2012-07-20 07:17:52 UTC
Roime wrote:
Taurich Vorsel wrote:
Roime wrote:
Gets close in price, not sure about other stats, but a selection of very hurtful drones to taste.

[Dominix Navy Issue, Infernavy]
[a terrible idea]
raw stats (cold, unboosted and drug-free)

1723 dps
101K EHP
1177 hp/s

Sell plexes, plug in some hardwires, eat pills, have a Tengu, evoke fear on your nearest trade hub undock.

All hail ~Elite PVP~

God that's awful

You can slap (dual) ancil on anything, including the vindi if you so wish, and it'll be waaaaay better than that domi
Plus drone as major portion of dps is suck for PvP


However, your comment about drones shows that you don't really have any idea what you are talking about.


See: Drones + Gate guns

Copine Callmeknau disappeared one day now we are left with Taurich Vorsel AKA BIZARRO COPE!
chris elliot
Treasury Department
Plug N Play
#32 - 2012-07-20 18:39:21 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
chris elliot wrote:

This is why you always see tons of t3's in the large scale wh battlereports. Sometimes you will see a Vindi or Kronos, but you usually see triage carriers ect with them. You'd be surprised how fast things die when lokis and tracking dreads show up on grid.


Heh, I'm more than willing to learn if you'll take a max skill armor triage niddy pilot. :)

-Liang


if youre serious about running triage in a WH you need to cross train to archon.
(recovering thanny pilot here, been clean 5 months or so.)


I dunno, the fittings boost opened up some very interesting options that make the Nidhoggur at least an interesting choice.

-Liang


Visit the wh section of the forums and pull up the BR from VoC vs Elysian Empire as a recent example. The Elysian pov towards the end shows a well fitted bhaal being held a little above half armor by guardians, until the VoC Moros gets lock and the lokis web him, instapop. Had he been full armor it would have taken two, maybe three shots.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#33 - 2012-07-20 18:44:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Instapopping a half armor Bhaalgorn has nothing to do with the difference between a Nidhoggur and an Archon.

-Liang

Ed: Though the point is well taken about a Vindicator. As I said: I haven't really spent a whole lot of time in WH space with multiple dreads + T3 blobs on the field. What I've seen is countless fights between 1v1 and 20v20 (POS takedowns, mostly), but most were on the order of 5v5.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#34 - 2012-07-20 22:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Eternal Error wrote:
The vindi is great, but only really shines in situations like highsec wars where mobility isn't as key and facemelting DPS is even more important.

Also, as Jack said, in larger engagements, particularly ones with lots of logi, the proteus' T3 resists can really outdo the vindicator.

Kyle Ward wrote:
Wasn't there a guy I while back who just owned in a Vindicator? He made youtube videos of himself solowtfpwning like 4+ BS's at once on losec gates...

If I can track them down I'll link them.

Gods Coldblood (or something like that).

Here's a couple:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnwI2oVCkqk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InzJ6YetQmo


He was actually in this alliance tournament at some point, with Verge of Collapse IIRC. Flying a kronos I think.


For alliance tournament purposes, I really think the kronos is actually the better ship. You lose some dps and a mid slot, but it has a better tank, utility highs for SBs or neuts/vamps, MUCH better targeting range so damps aren't as much of a killer, and costs fewer points so you can upgrade something else.

thhief ghabmoef
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-07-20 22:49:02 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:



For alliance tournament purposes, I really think the kronos is actually the better ship. You lose some dps and a mid slot, but it has a better tank, utility highs for SBs or neuts/vamps, MUCH better targeting range so damps aren't as much of a killer, and costs fewer points so you can upgrade something else.


The problem isnt any of that, its the sensor strenght! /vinid 28 to 13 for the kronos) that also is the reason you almost never see them in pvp on tq!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#36 - 2012-07-21 00:52:32 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:



For alliance tournament purposes, I really think the kronos is actually the better ship. You lose some dps and a mid slot, but it has a better tank, utility highs for SBs or neuts/vamps, MUCH better targeting range so damps aren't as much of a killer, and costs fewer points so you can upgrade something else.


The problem isnt any of that, its the sensor strenght! /vinid 28 to 13 for the kronos) that also is the reason you almost never see them in pvp on tq!


Not only that, but you can fit an ECCM on your Vindicator (like i do) without gimping your tackle, web and capacitor abilities that gives you even higher sensor strenght Blink

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#37 - 2012-07-21 07:59:10 UTC
I give you a little hint about the Vindicator's pricetag:

Vidicator - Serpenties LP store of your choice, clutteres all across Syndicate space:

800.000 LP and 200.000.000 isk.

Yea, nothing more, nothing less, no 30.000.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 isk in Jita 4-4.

Fitting cost may vary but by the time you reach 80.000 LP you will pretty much be able to put some fancy stuff on that boat Cool

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
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