Missions & Complexes

Ok, instead of trolling, I'll give some numbers. To note, I have flown and FC'd incursions, and ran just about every type of WH.

Incursions:
lowskilled, or non-skeet fleet. You will be pumping out about 50mil/hour not counting the time it takes to get a fleet/move to the next incursion. Getting a fleet usually takes 30 min to an hour, though of course it can vary (may have gone down a bit since I was last running em back in june).
Skeet fleets. You will be pumping out 100mil an hour on the low end, possibly bumping that all the way up to 180-200mil an hour. Typical sites last between 3 and 5 minutes. Note, I don't bother trying to count LP in my figures, those were straight up isk in the pocket figures. You will only get into these fleets by flying regularly with a group of people, flying pimp gunships (note, for incursions, missiles suck for anything other then HM sniper tengu's in assaults/HQ's), or being a damn good logi pilot.
General notes - don't expect to do much with multi-boxing. This is one of the big reasons why I stopped flying them - everyone wants in on it and it seems that everyone has a predjudice against people multi-boxing. If you have just 1 acct, incursions are great. If you have more, they are great for that one acct that can actually fly in it, but you are probably going to be looking to get better isk off of other activities when you divide it out by accts.

Wormholes:
Average DPS per WH class, against battleship targets:
C2 - 500
C3 - 800
C4 - 1400
C5 - 2000
Average Isk/combat site (not counting capital escalation). You can about double the amount of isk and time it takes when looking at radar/mag sites.
C2 - 25mil
C3 - 50mil
C4 - 100mil
C5 - 250mil
Do note, these figures are an average, it will vary some per site, and this is the total value per site (not total value per character, like incursions).
What does this all mean? If you are solo, you can match a lowend skeet fleet by soloing 4 C2 sites/hour, 2 C3 sites per hour or 1 C4 site per hour. Of course, then you have to consider whether or not you actually can solo one. To give you my numbers from it, I'll use the "tengu" - assume about 500dps or so (the max that you can get from a tengu without pimping in modules, implants, or ammo). For myself, I've used tengu's, slepnirs, faction battleships, etc, but everyone understands tengu's.

C2 WH: about 10 min/site with 1 tengu. usually takes about 5 min to salvage. This puts you firmly at the 100mil/hour mark - for as long as the sites last. I usually ran them with 2 tengu's and a salvager, which leads to about 5min/site and about 5 min to salvage, which allowed us about 12 sites per hour, or about 300mil total per hour split 3 ways. The problem? The most heavily populated (combat site wise) C2 I've come across had about 20 sites... which took less than 2 hours to clear out. Most usually have only 10 sites or so, meaning that if you are doing a solid day of smashing C2's, you are looking at having something with a C2 static, and opening/flattening/closing each C2 at the rate of about 1 every hour. Which is a PITA.

C3 WH: These I didn't try doing solo, usually took about 10min/site with 2 tengu's. Again, about 5 min to salvage. Which once again puts us at around 300mil/hour split 3 ways. The big difference here is that since sites take longer, it takes longer to flatten a C3, meaning that if you are hammering them all day you have to deal with the whole open/flatten/close deal less often, which means less time taken away from running sites.

C4 WH: About 20min/site with 2 tengu equivelent, 10 with 4 tengu equivalent (here though you can effectively use battleships, meaning that 4 tengu equivalent can actually be 2 battleships with 1 logi supporting). Sites take about 5 min to salvage still. So once again, you are looking at around 300mil/hour split 3 ways with the 2 tengu equivalent (here, because I can get battleships in, I'm averaging about 500mil/hour split 4 ways).

C5 WH: took about 1 hour/site with 4 tengu equivelent, with about 10 min salvaging. These sites are a real PITA with such low numbers though, and were cut down to about 20min with 10 tengu equivalent. (still 10min salvaging). So this time lets go with the 10 tengu equivalent - you are making about 750mil/hour split 10 ways, which is 75mil/hour. Which means that if C5's are going to be more profitable than smaller sites, you had best be upgrading those tengu's, and battleships are increadiably more effective in C5's than lower class WH's. Note, if you have decent logi's, you only really need 2 basilisks/guardians, and then a minimum of 1500dps to manage these sites, meaning that you could run them with 2 logi's and 2 1kdps battleships. Here though the real isk maker is having capital ship escalations, which pump these sites up solidly into the 1.5bil isk/site range with full capital escalation.

Of course, there is a downside to all this. I usually spend about half my time running logistics of some sort (refueling POS's, selling isk, collapsing WH's, etc) in the wormholes. So in the end, assuming that you are pimping equally in the incursion and in the WH, isk comes out slightly in favor of the WH if you are just counting time running sites for both. Of course, if you pimp more for incursions than you do for WH's, thats a completely different story though...

-Arazel

1.5bil is about right for capital escalations, yeah.

When you consider this is the unsplit payout and requires most of the pilots to be in capital class ships, and even then, remains pretty brutal and has to be done in nullsec with no local, it doesn't seem out of the normal risk:reward curve. Not to mention you need to occupy "nullsec" space and keep all those assets at risk.

Netting 1.5bil (10.5mil payout x 10) from an Incursion site that takes 5 minutes to run in highsec? That's where your risk:reward is ******.

Why do you do subcaps for damage dealers? Just get a good loki or two and then toss on as many dreads as you have pilots for (and of course either a triage carrier or a few logi's to keep said loki's alive). 6kdps per dread that can actually effectively be applied is awsome

-Arazel

Counting salvage for WHs is akin to counting LP for incursions. Salvage is random.

For C4, I would say about 60mil per site in tags (anomalies, ignore Integrated Terminus), 4 per hour with 2 properly fit tengus, thus netting 120 mil/hr.

Solo farming Frontier Barracks/Command Post used to be possible and thus net about 100 mil/hr but alas that day is gone.

Point being, the risks involved to get up to the 100mi/hr rate in wh space means C4 whs. In high sec...it means get into a decent Incursion farming fleet.

Sorry guys but your little Incursions pot of gold is just a bit over the top. It needs its potential to be cut in half.

I agree with you, but until someone decides to do hard research on it, I'd say there is no reliable data open to the public on it and thus going based on tag income is the most accurate.

When I used to farm C4 sites (before the Sleeper Neut fix), I wouldn't even bother to salvage. I would just go to the next site and keep shooting. This gave me approximately 90-100mil/hr (roughly 35-40 minutes per site).

From the predator side of the equation, we find it much, much easier to get kills in high sec missions or WHs as compared to Incursions or Live Events. So, at least from the "unintended, consensual PVP" threat, Incursions are far safer than Lv 4s in High Sec. Much of that is due to the organization skills of BTL Pub & TDF and I tip my hat to them for that.

Still, it's not hard to see that the relative safety and grief-free opportunities for absurd high sec ISKies have taken a toll on the mission runner population. Nerf them a little bit, or find a way to explode moar Incursion shups plox.

Wow, I just found new respect for the Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service alliance.
Thank you for the credit. We try to do our best

He's not mad. You are. He's not whinning. You are. He gets isk, you don't. Why should he be mad?

And no, your whinning will not make incursions go away.

You mad, bro?

never stop posting bro