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Black Ops

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Arele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#161 - 2012-07-31 18:14:18 UTC
Black ops bs will eventually get a cov-ops cloak. It's only a matter of time till a dev comes along and understands that standard cloaks just don't work as intended for the hulls drawback wise, as they can be somewhat circumvented (mwd cloak trick, etc).

I remember back in the day the same thing was said about stealth bombers, 'oh god they'll never get a cov ops cloak, that would be OP." And they said the same thing about the blockade runners too "oh no you'll make hauling invulnerable".
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-08-01 12:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Syzygium wrote:
Please be VERY careful when changing BlackOps. Your analysis of them being 'broken' because there are even more titan pilots than BO pilots is what is broken, not the BlackOps themselves.

You twist cause and effect here: There are NOT too few BlackOps Pilots, there are TOO MANY Titan pilots and there are mainly two reasons for this:
a) ISK is on corporate or alliance level or even for a skilled player NO LIMITING FACTOR any more. Your argumentation "they are expensive they must be a lot stronger" is not valid. ISK is generated and thrown around like peanuts these days, every second LowSec PvP-Corp with more than 20 players have 1-2 titans ready for bridging and most 0.0 entities already count titans in the dozens. THAT is the reason for the difference in BO- and Titan-Pilots. Not that BOs are somehow "broken". Titan are too good and too common.
b) Titans are THE ONE gankingtool. 100% save in the POS, able to bridge a fully prepared gang including tacklers, ewar, logistics and damage in a second over many lightyears. An option to run a nearly 100% save assault on some unprepared opponent with the chance of killing entire fleets without loosing a single ship. That (and the incredibly good boost for logistic efforts aka bridging freighters etc...) is the reason everyone who can afford it buys a titan sooner or later. And the trend goes on.

These are the two main reasons why you see so much more Titanpilots than BlackOps pilots. ISK is no factor and Titans allow EASY GANKING. BOs require attention, planning, skill and their usage is a LOT more risky since they are weaker than normal combat ships, what also applies to the ships you can bridge with them and your abilities for taking fleetboosters or logistics with you are close to zero. That is why people go titan and do not go BlackOps. Most people are LAZY. They want easy wins, not hard fights and they hate long and hard preparations and planning. They do not want to have effort for their shiny kills.

BlackOps do NOT need "much love". They are already a powerful tool in the hands of a skilled gang with adequate preparation. Their ability to show up without warning and moving through hostile or camped areas, almost unscoutable and unstoppable ALREADY outweights by far their lesser performance in battle.

They are not yet the gankingtool the titan already is, because they are hard to master, easy to lose if used wrong and require some attention and planning. Do not make them the next easygankmachine that jumps on every second tackled battlecruiser with 10:1 numbers because he was stupid enough to try a 1on1.

If you need to touch them, make them more self-sufficient by increasing their cargo (allowing to grab and bring home more loot and field more capboosters), increasing their dronebay (not bandwith! to let them replace lost drones for a longer time), give them adequate T2 resists, a marauder-like highslot setup (4guns/3utils with a 100% Damagebonus so they can field NOS/Neuts/Smartbombs more easily) or a bit more buffer or even a covert cloaking device.

But DO NOT give them more range! Their current limited range is what stops them from sitting around every corner just waiting for some poor guy engaging the cynobait. Their current range is absolutely okay because that forces the pilots to MOVE AROUND in order to use the BOs instead of sitting in a lonely system and covering just 50 other systems with cloaked cynoscouts! The problem is not that BOs can jump not far enough. All OTHER ships can jump way TOO FAR! Thats the problem with the current way of power projection via titanbridges or moving ov cap/superfleets from one end of eve to the other in a few minutes.

Mark my words: increase range and bridge abilities and you will do EvE no good! You just create one more tool for gankers who want easy kills with almost no risk and effort.

Just the few cents of one player who has FCed quite a few BlackOps Gangs very successfully and can assure you: They are FINE. They are NOT BROKEN. Do not make it worse by "fixing" something that do not need to be fixed.

/Syz


i agree mostly with the ganking part. BO are very good at ganking already. There are plenty of entities that show very good use of them. There are some people that think they should be easier to use and i strongly disagree.

Giving them covert-cloak is a bad bad idea. The reason is simply. The rarelly get caught with all the ganking they do today so why make them even harder to catch? Covert-Ops cloak will make them even harder to catch. Eitherway they dont need covert ops cloak since they already can jump anywhere and use gates.

When eve becomes too much about just ganking and pure ganking specially with the large numbers you can pull with cynos it destroys the game. Lets not make eve more ganking than it already is. There is NO strategy in ganking and its boring as hell. Once you do it 10 times, you are bored! It will slso become the cliche wher nobody wants to agree otherwise you get 20 jumping on you just like you have ith super caps these days.
Syzygium
Ventures Bar
Sleeper Protocol
#163 - 2012-08-01 15:08:01 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Giving them covert-cloak is a bad bad idea. The reason is simply. The rarelly get caught with all the ganking they do today so why make them even harder to catch? Covert-Ops cloak will make them even harder to catch. Eitherway they dont need covert ops cloak since they already can jump anywhere and use gates.

honestly, I doubt it would have any effect to BOs at all, it would only give them the advantage of moving inside a system without beeing seen, just like they move through a constellation or region.

If they use a gate, they already align->cloak->decloak-> instawarp so the limiting factor the aligntime, no one can lock them anyway, just decloak them with a bumping interceptor or frigate. That can still be done if they have a covert cloak.

secondly, they almost never use gates at all, why risk your gang being spotted or even someone being tackled (be it that he just sucks or has a disconnect during jump), if you can just send one of your recons/cov-ops/bombers to check the gate first? If there is someone who could tackle, no BO will use the gate and in most cases the scout just moves 3-4 systems and then opens a covertcyno to let the BOs jump on him -> nearly 100% safe and no cloakyscouts of the opponent can even report the BO gang they have seen using gates.

So why it sounds like a big improvement, in reality not much will change if BOs will get a covertcloak.
Marconus Orion
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#164 - 2012-08-01 16:04:58 UTC
I always find it funny when people think slapping on a covert cloak will fix any ship.
ovenproofjet
Gallifrey Industries
#165 - 2012-08-02 07:55:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ovenproofjet
Marconus Orion wrote:
I always find it funny when people think slapping on a covert cloak will fix any ship.


This isn't just any ship. It's a Black Ops, the top of the covert chain, and it doesn't even get the basic equipment of the line. A covert cloak is not going to even remotely come close "fixing" them, their problems extend far beyond not being able to warp cloaked.

Currently, use of cloak on black ops extends to cloak/MWD trick when a gank hotdrop is finished, decloaked whilst warping to safespot to recharge capacitor, re-cloak when landing in safespot, uncloak and jump out when capacitor is charged. Now, the only difference a Covert Ops cloak would this sequence is the fact I'd have to click the cloak module one less time.

Based on this tactic, people can't currently scan out a Black Ops provided the pilot is competent, so, changing to a covert cloak isn't going to change that in the slightest.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#166 - 2012-08-03 09:45:12 UTC
CCP BO CSM Minuts:

"Finally on the Black Ops class, much to the joy of Trebor and Kelduum.

CCP Ytterbium quite bluntly stated “Black Ops are lame” and explained that they “try to do two things and fail at both.”

Two step also added that their mass is anomalously high, and Aleks chimed in that the fuel consumption for bridging needed to be looked at as well. Two step also had concerns on the Covert Cyno module requiring Cyno V, but Trebor was quick to disagree and insisted that the Covert Cyno skill requirements were a non-issue, to which Seleene, Elise, Aleks and UAxDeath agreed.

Trebor added that there was a tension in the Black Ops-using community that if the ships become too powerful then more people will use them and their specialized niche would become overcrowded. Trebor jokingly added that many people in his corporation would like the ships nerfed. Trebor’s main concern with the Black Ops was the fuel use and a dearth of Black Ops-capable Logistics ships. Trebor added that he likes the mechanic of needing to plan to use Black Ops.

Summarizing the meeting, CCP Xhagen asked the CSM what they thought of the general plan that CCP Ytterbium laid out, and asked CCP Ytterbium and CCP Soundwave what their timeframe for implementing these changes was.

Two step asked about the change to skill prerequisite for ships, and CCP Ytterbium responded that the skills would not change until the ships themselves are rebalanced. Addressing concerns that it would widen the gap between new players and veteran players, CCP Ytterbium was adamant that it wouldn’t widen the gap, it would simply make the skill-training path more consistent.

He added that, while it would be more time consuming to be specialized in all of the Battlecruisers, it would take less time to specialize in the T2 Battlecruisers of the given race.
Two step ended the meeting by continuing to express his objections to the idea."


http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_May_June_2012.pdf


If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#167 - 2012-08-05 13:33:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
CCP BO CSM Minuts:

"Finally on the Black Ops class, much to the joy of Trebor and Kelduum.

CCP Ytterbium quite bluntly stated “Black Ops are lame” and explained that they “try to do two things and fail at both.”

Two step also added that their mass is anomalously high, and Aleks chimed in that the fuel consumption for bridging needed to be looked at as well. Two step also had concerns on the Covert Cyno module requiring Cyno V, but Trebor was quick to disagree and insisted that the Covert Cyno skill requirements were a non-issue, to which Seleene, Elise, Aleks and UAxDeath agreed.

Trebor added that there was a tension in the Black Ops-using community that if the ships become too powerful then more people will use them and their specialized niche would become overcrowded. Trebor jokingly added that many people in his corporation would like the ships nerfed. Trebor’s main concern with the Black Ops was the fuel use and a dearth of Black Ops-capable Logistics ships. Trebor added that he likes the mechanic of needing to plan to use Black Ops.

Summarizing the meeting, CCP Xhagen asked the CSM what they thought of the general plan that CCP Ytterbium laid out, and asked CCP Ytterbium and CCP Soundwave what their timeframe for implementing these changes was.

Two step asked about the change to skill prerequisite for ships, and CCP Ytterbium responded that the skills would not change until the ships themselves are rebalanced. Addressing concerns that it would widen the gap between new players and veteran players, CCP Ytterbium was adamant that it wouldn’t widen the gap, it would simply make the skill-training path more consistent.

He added that, while it would be more time consuming to be specialized in all of the Battlecruisers, it would take less time to specialize in the T2 Battlecruisers of the given race.
Two step ended the meeting by continuing to express his objections to the idea."


http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_May_June_2012.pdf




that is just another proof that a good portion of the CSM do believe that black ops are powerfull atm, which in many ways disagrees with 1 or 2 CSMs.

They implicitly say they are a "specialized niche" - meaning they work in a number of strategies and is not like many in this thread who say black ops are crap or other words they may use. Otherwise you cant call it a specialized niche as it wouldnt make sence to call that something that does not work!

Black ops are very good in the hands of people that are organized and know how to use them and without a doubt they are crap at the hands of people that are disorganized and cant use them.

To nerf or buff something for the sake of doing when there is over 4 years if good statictics of their performance is not only a bad idea but also unprofesional specially when a good portion of the CSM clearly say that they are good at what they do!
Irya Boone
The Scope
#168 - 2012-08-05 13:54:51 UTC
so if i understand other ships are good without you need to be organized etc etc but if you want to play black ops you have to be prepared well organized , well skilled well supported well corporated etc etc

so i resume ...
frigate no need to be prepared , titans no neet neither, carriers no need to know how to play neither ...
But but for Black ops it's fine if you get well prepared organized .....


are you aware of the stupidity of you ? !!!!

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Mr LaboratoryRat
Confederation of DuckTape Lovers
#169 - 2012-08-05 15:46:25 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
CCP BO CSM Minuts:

"Finally on the Black Ops class, much to the joy of Trebor and Kelduum.

CCP Ytterbium quite bluntly stated “Black Ops are lame” and explained that they “try to do two things and fail at both.”

Two step also added that their mass is anomalously high, and Aleks chimed in that the fuel consumption for bridging needed to be looked at as well. Two step also had concerns on the Covert Cyno module requiring Cyno V, but Trebor was quick to disagree and insisted that the Covert Cyno skill requirements were a non-issue, to which Seleene, Elise, Aleks and UAxDeath agreed.

Trebor added that there was a tension in the Black Ops-using community that if the ships become too powerful then more people will use them and their specialized niche would become overcrowded. Trebor jokingly added that many people in his corporation would like the ships nerfed. Trebor’s main concern with the Black Ops was the fuel use and a dearth of Black Ops-capable Logistics ships. Trebor added that he likes the mechanic of needing to plan to use Black Ops.

Summarizing the meeting, CCP Xhagen asked the CSM what they thought of the general plan that CCP Ytterbium laid out, and asked CCP Ytterbium and CCP Soundwave what their timeframe for implementing these changes was.

Two step asked about the change to skill prerequisite for ships, and CCP Ytterbium responded that the skills would not change until the ships themselves are rebalanced. Addressing concerns that it would widen the gap between new players and veteran players, CCP Ytterbium was adamant that it wouldn’t widen the gap, it would simply make the skill-training path more consistent.

He added that, while it would be more time consuming to be specialized in all of the Battlecruisers, it would take less time to specialize in the T2 Battlecruisers of the given race.
Two step ended the meeting by continuing to express his objections to the idea."


http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_May_June_2012.pdf




that is just another proof that a good portion of the CSM do believe that black ops are powerfull atm, which in many ways disagrees with 1 or 2 CSMs.

They implicitly say they are a "specialized niche" - meaning they work in a number of strategies and is not like many in this thread who say black ops are crap or other words they may use. Otherwise you cant call it a specialized niche as it wouldnt make sence to call that something that does not work!

Black ops are very good in the hands of people that are organized and know how to use them and without a doubt they are crap at the hands of people that are disorganized and cant use them.

To nerf or buff something for the sake of doing when there is over 4 years if good statictics of their performance is not only a bad idea but also unprofesional specially when a good portion of the CSM clearly say that they are good at what they do!


Irya Boone wrote:
so if i understand other ships are good without you need to be organized etc etc but if you want to play black ops you have to be prepared well organized , well skilled well supported well corporated etc etc

so i resume ...
frigate no need to be prepared , titans no neet neither, carriers no need to know how to play neither ...
But but for Black ops it's fine if you get well prepared organized .....


are you aware of the stupidity of you ? !!!!


Hes just a big bad troll... I dont rly believe neutral troll alts anyway, so to him i say "proof or STFU".

Seems to me that the BO individualy were not discussed. As you see with other Tech 2 ships. I can draw conclusion that ether this wasnt done, was deleted out the minuts or isnt much interested given too. Resons for that could be all sorts but not rly positive.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-08-07 10:43:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Irya Boone wrote:
so if i understand other ships are good without you need to be organized etc etc but if you want to play black ops you have to be prepared well organized , well skilled well supported well corporated etc etc

so i resume ...
frigate no need to be prepared , titans no neet neither, carriers no need to know how to play neither ...
But but for Black ops it's fine if you get well prepared organized .....


are you aware of the stupidity of you ? !!!!


a carrier or supers are capital class ships. I dont even know why you include these in this conversation cos they are a class way above black ops.

further, blackops is commonly know to be a class of ship used for jump and "snipe"(and i dont mean long rang).
Its a completely different approach to the game. Jump, snipe and jump out! They do this very very well. We got 4 years at least of data that proves it. Even the CSM for the most part agree with this as they clearly say they are good at what they do!

you cannot really compare frigate to capital or supers nor you can compare either of these with black ops. The way you wage war with them is completelly different. Even capitals, supers and blackops even when they can be cynoed in the mythology on how to use them is different. The reason is very simple. Its the only class of ship thats not capital and that can cyno in mass people even to a blocked system which is something capitals or supers cant be. This is a huge advantage believe it or not. If we buff these then why should anyone wanna fight with normal ships with other classes? It would be too easy to jump into a blocked system and kills without no loss. IT ALREADY IS THAT WAY, in many respects so why make it worst?
Have you not experienced what is like to be jumped by 6+ Black ops and recons and covert ships? Its terribly tought to deal with! Why make op more op?
Hemmo Paskiainen
#171 - 2012-08-07 14:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Andrea Roche wrote:
Irya Boone wrote:
so if i understand other ships are good without you need to be organized etc etc but if you want to play black ops you have to be prepared well organized , well skilled well supported well corporated etc etc

so i resume ...
frigate no need to be prepared , titans no neet neither, carriers no need to know how to play neither ...
But but for Black ops it's fine if you get well prepared organized .....


are you aware of the stupidity of you ? !!!!


a carrier or supers are capital class ships. I dont even know why you include these in this conversation cos they are a class way above black ops.

further, blackops is commonly know to be a class of ship used for jump and "snipe"(and i dont mean long rang).
Its a completely different approach to the game. Jump, snipe and jump out! They do this very very well. We got 4 years at least of data that proves it. Even the CSM for the most part agree with this as they clearly say they are good at what they do!

you cannot really compare frigate to capital or supers nor you can compare either of these with black ops. The way you wage war with them is completelly different. Even capitals, supers and blackops even when they can be cynoed in the mythology on how to use them is different. The reason is very simple. Its the only class of ship thats not capital and that can cyno in mass people even to a blocked system which is something capitals or supers cant be. This is a huge advantage believe it or not. If we buff these then why should anyone wanna fight with normal ships with other classes? It would be too easy to jump into a blocked system and kills without no loss. IT ALREADY IS THAT WAY, in many respects so why make it worst?
Have you not experienced what is like to be jumped by 6+ Black ops and recons and covert ships? Its terribly tought to deal with! Why make op more op?


Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
CCP BO CSM Minuts:

"Finally on the Black Ops class, much to the joy of Trebor and Kelduum.

CCP Ytterbium quite bluntly stated “Black Ops are lame” and explained that they “try to do two things and fail at both.”

Two step also added that their mass is anomalously high, and Aleks chimed in that the fuel consumption for bridging needed to be looked at as well.

http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_May_June_2012.pdf




Dear Mr Andrea Roche,

Pls stop trolling this thread. You have obvius no idea were your talking about (so gtfo). Let me explain why you are trolling as you obvius dont have the mental capabilities to realise this....

-BO can "snipe", you prolly mean gank, not very well. They can just do it (kinda bad aswell). Not decent, not good, not very well....
-You have 4yrs of data that BO are being used, thats it.... as you can see behind the kills what was going on or how the kill was made.
-WOW you rly say that even CSM thinks they are good at what they do..., i added for you above the latest CSM minut quotes about BO. I can also add quotes how terrible CSM finds them in past 4 yrs.... fail troll is faill
-BO can cyno in cynojammed systems, not what extra ability makes this "powerfull".. pls explain as it obvius isnt that powerfull. BO can only bridge bombers, recons, cov op T3's and themselves. So pls explain the "advantage" you are talkign about? You dont have logistics, so you want to bridge into a cynojammed system 100 black op battleships without logi to fight other ships? Have you even got common sence about current fleet warefare? Do you realzie most fleets have logi's? do you realize the 1B each BO will simply melt vs a even 50 man drake fleet with logies. (drakes are battlecruizers (for you knowlage))....
-Maybe its horrible to get dropped, but why dont you hide when a neut gets into system.. why did you get pointed at first place?

Prove me wrong otherwise, post with main not some neut trolling alt or i simply get all your trolling comments removed

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#172 - 2012-08-07 14:54:55 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Ms Kat wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
Black ops are OP as hell.
Look at Burn Eden stats using them and how efficient they are and how very rarelly they lose a back ops ship!
Sorry but their stats speaks miles on how good they are already, nevermind buffing them further!






you obviously know nothing about BLOPS please biomass



lol
Is BE capable of a great efficinecy at it? Yes or No? Answer is obviously Yes.
So, remind me who does not know anothing about blops again Lol
Just cos you suck at it, does not mean blops are crap



Burn eden can have a great efficiency even on T1 cruisers.. that is THEIR PERSONAL credit.. not of the ship. You are a troll, a BE alt trying to draw attention, or someoen that has very little knowledge of BE historical efficiency
JD No7
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#173 - 2012-08-07 15:02:49 UTC
The buff to covert cynos would be to nerf normal cynos. Give normal cynos a 30 second jump interval but leave coverts as-is.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#174 - 2012-08-07 17:10:25 UTC
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
-Maybe its horrible to get dropped, but why dont you hide when a neut gets into system.. why did you get pointed at first place?

Every AFK cloaker needs to have a cyno or covert cyno. Just in case.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Sameyaa
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#175 - 2012-08-07 18:19:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sameyaa
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
Considering the only other ship class that can do bridges are titans, Black Ops are well worth the price tag imo.


First person in the thread to understand what blackops are for.


You obvius havnt bridged a fleet of recons and bombers with a black op...... pls if you dont know where your talking about, dont post anything


this^^

When i do a blackop fleet i only take BO battleships and dont bridge recons for this reason. Fuel usage while bridging is quit frankly ********.

Out of about maybe 50 or so drops ive done, i think the main problem is the inablity to bridge a support fleet into the battle without running out of fuel after 3 recons make the bridge. This severly limits the combat effectiveness if we drop on multiple ships. Otherwise ive found the dps of redeemers and panthers to be quite good. The sin is only good as a rr boat. The widow i havent found overly usefull since we pick our engagements and usually dont really need jams.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#176 - 2012-08-09 08:30:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
[

Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
CCP BO CSM Minuts:

"Finally on the Black Ops class, much to the joy of Trebor and Kelduum.

CCP Ytterbium quite bluntly stated “Black Ops are lame” and explained that they “try to do two things and fail at both.”

Two step also added that their mass is anomalously high, and Aleks chimed in that the fuel consumption for bridging needed to be looked at as well.

http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_May_June_2012.pdf




Dear Mr Andrea Roche,

Pls stop trolling this thread. You have obvius no idea were your talking about (so gtfo). Let me explain why you are trolling as you obvius dont have the mental capabilities to realise this....

-BO can "snipe", you prolly mean gank, not very well. They can just do it (kinda bad aswell). Not decent, not good, not very well....
-You have 4yrs of data that BO are being used, thats it.... as you can see behind the kills what was going on or how the kill was made.
-WOW you rly say that even CSM thinks they are good at what they do..., i added for you above the latest CSM minut quotes about BO. I can also add quotes how terrible CSM finds them in past 4 yrs.... fail troll is faill
-BO can cyno in cynojammed systems, not what extra ability makes this "powerfull".. pls explain as it obvius isnt that powerfull. BO can only bridge bombers, recons, cov op T3's and themselves. So pls explain the "advantage" you are talkign about? You dont have logistics, so you want to bridge into a cynojammed system 100 black op battleships without logi to fight other ships? Have you even got common sence about current fleet warefare? Do you realzie most fleets have logi's? do you realize the 1B each BO will simply melt vs a even 50 man drake fleet with logies. (drakes are battlecruizers (for you knowlage))....
-Maybe its horrible to get dropped, but why dont you hide when a neut gets into system.. why did you get pointed at first place?

Prove me wrong otherwise, post with main not some neut trolling alt or i simply get all your trolling comments removed


-There is a reason i put snipe in quotes! To say that they do this job bad is a BIG misrepresentation of stats! If they did such a bad job at it, then we ill not have such a high success rate stats with them! Also these stats come from not just one entity but there are many that use them well. Dont under sell them please.
-I have experinced many such BO fights with different techniques like the BE and Dirt Nap
-You claim CSM are no good at what they do, yet you quote them to support you "points" for buffs. Make up your mind please! You either support their decision and quote them or not support theur decision and not quote them. Dont be a hypocrite and tell me they are no good and at the same time quote them to support your views on black ops! Its terribly hypocritic from you.
-FYI you dont need logistic ships to use your blackops. Your remote repping drones will do that for you very well. 5 drones per black op ship is a lot of rep. You can also use your widow or blackbirds to jam and all the other EWARs to jam/disrupt enemy logies. Even AAA old allies Dirt Nap use this.
Yes the ability to jump a whole fleet into a cyno jammed system is a big advantage. I know it cos i have been there. It is very easy to jump, snipe and cloak for 4 minutes(capacitor recharge) and jump out. Many years of stats have show this to us and i have experienced it. I am not making it up and killboards from BE and many other factions prove it! I am not making this up as you claim by calling me a "troll".
I sincirelly dont know why you need to clarify to me what drakes are. You seem to be too tied up on the idea of jumping many blackops (more than 10 or 12) into an enemy. Black ops is a niche tool to take out small gangs. I never said it was for use in the hundreds or even more than 10 or 12. Black ops is a great way to herass and engage small gangs. If you want to engage hunreds or even 50 drakes, i believe you will be disapointed. Its simply not for that. I wouldnt engage a carrier vs 12 bs either. Its simply the wrong way to go about it unless i had an Ace to fall back on. There are some fleet compositions that fit a certain scenario and in black ops this is no different just like in other fleet compositions.
-I am not even gonna speak about your last point cos its a dumb point.

I have said to you that i will not post with my main alt and i have reasons for it.
AAA is not know for their use of black ops. Yes they have used it but not effectively. Maybe they were effective when BE was in AAA but that was for a short and long time ago. So dont post with your AAA alt and claim you are good at black ops when AAA is probably the last alliance to look for black ops action!!!
I will love to see how you are gonna "i simply get all your trolling comments removed" Goodluck with that! You can block my comments from ever showing up to you if you chose to but they will show up for the rest.
As somebody said before, only in the eyes of an idiot could counter points be concidered as a troll!
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#177 - 2012-08-09 09:54:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
I have complete faith that CCP will alter a ship used by 1 in 500 players for the benefit of the 499 other players who still won't fly that hull after the changes (probably in part due to the SP cost of specialization)

It doesn't matter if there are more Titan pilots than Black Ops pilots. Not all roles are equal. Two to one Titan to BOps pilots might be the perfect answer.

It's always concerning when CCP Devs make changes to how players should play, when players are already playing.

How exactly does one "do it wrong" in a [sic] sandbox?

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#178 - 2012-08-09 14:25:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Andrea Roche wrote:

-I have experinced many such BO fights with different techniques like the BE and Dirt Nap

post main you big troll

Andrea Roche wrote:

-You claim CSM are no good at what they do, yet you quote them to support you "points" for buffs. Make up your mind please! You either support their decision and quote them or not support theur decision and not quote them. Dont be a hypocrite and tell me they are no good and at the same time quote them to support your views on black ops! Its terribly hypocritic from you.

Troll post, i nvr said that see above

Andrea Roche wrote:

-FYI you dont need logistic ships to use your blackops. Your remote repping drones will do that for you very well. 5 drones per black op ship is a lot of rep. You can also use your widow or blackbirds to jam and all the other EWARs to jam/disrupt enemy logies. Even AAA old allies Dirt Nap use this.

*snip* blackbirds cant be bridge *snip*

Andrea Roche wrote:

Yes the ability to jump a whole fleet into a cyno jammed system is a big advantage. I know it cos i have been there. It is very easy to jump, snipe and cloak for 4 minutes(capacitor recharge) and jump out. Many years of stats have show this to us and i have experienced it. I am not making it up and killboards from BE and many other factions prove it! I am not making this up as you claim by calling me a "troll".

Post main to prove kills otherwise your a troll

Andrea Roche wrote:

I sincirelly dont know why you need to clarify to me what drakes are.

Because you think blackbirds can jump trough a cov op portal


EDIT: If you cannot post without using insults, it may be best not to post at all.

Personal attacks removed - ISD Type40.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#179 - 2012-08-09 14:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:


i meant falcon not blackbird. Yes that was my mistake.
its funny how you call everything I say a troll. I can do the same with all your points but I am not gonna lower myself to your level.
I bet you alliance with the "vast experince" or more directly "lack of experince" using black ops can say that black ops are bad.
Fact still is, AAA is not know for their effective use of black ops while others can. The ships are good, its only the pilots behind them that are bad! Build a bridge and get over it. Stop blaming the ship for your bad piloting skills
I am not the only one saying that black ops are good. Look in the whole thread and you will find many.


Keep on trolling, it realy matter if a ally has experiance with bo dropping or not doesnt it........such a ******* ******, me an my corp are laughing at you right now on ts


lol as if i care.
The fact is still fact the blackops are good at what they do and many well known entities have said so too in this thread and the CSM have said so too.
Enjoy that cookie Blink
And yes AAA are not known for their black ops so you should be the last person to talk about black ops ... P Laugh about that one tooTwisted
Hemmo Paskiainen
#180 - 2012-08-09 15:00:39 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:


lol as if i care.
The fact is still fact the blackops are good at what they do and many well known entities have said so too in this thread and the CSM have said so too.
Enjoy that cookie Blink
And yes AAA are not known for their black ops so you should be the last person to talk about black ops ... P Laugh about that one tooTwisted


Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:

CCP BO CSM Minuts:

"Finally on the Black Ops class, much to the joy of Trebor and Kelduum.

CCP Ytterbium quite bluntly stated “Black Ops are lame” and explained that they “try to do two things and fail at both.”

http://community.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2012/CSM_CCP_Meetings_May_June_2012.pdf


You should ask provi ppl and AAA members instead of random talking **** that comes up in your failbrain

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?