EVE General Discussion

We trying to get them to fly, period.

This.

I agree with the fact that clone costs could be lowered -a bit-, but the system is in place for a reason..
The fact that EvE isn't a 'simply respawn' game is what keeps it interesting.. and keeps people from doing stupid stuff over and over.

And let's be honest, how many people are facing clone costs over 45 mill..?
And even those who do, it's not like you always get podded when losing a ship. If you are, you might want to take a good look at your strategy. Let's not act like clonecosts alone are a major anti-pvp mechanic.

The fact that your pod has worth influences the gameplay experience in such a way that you want to try and get to safety..
Implants do the same, yes, but pvp'ing with implants is a choice, as stated earlier.

If clone costs are eliminated entirely, for alot of people who don't pvp with implants in, the need to get the pod to safety would become obsolete, if not even a burden. Much easier to just selfdestruct and get to station earlier to get back into the action.

This isn't as simple a matter as some people posting in this thread seem to think, it influences alot of aspects of the game.

I'd hate to see it get dumbed down.

I'm so glad you mentioned this. You see me, along with many others who have posted in this thread, see much, much further down the road in how clone upgrade removal would influence the game. I see...

- More PvP happening

-Thus more stuff blowing up

-Thus the need to replace said blow up stuff

-Thus more market transactions

-Thus more sales tax (hello ISK sink)

-Also higher skill point players opting to slide behind the wheel of a smaller ship

-Thus closing the available skill point game when facing a lower skilled player

-Thus evening the odds a bit more for the newer player

-Thus giving the newer player a chance at success

-Thus making him crave for more PvP and less missioning

-Also due to smaller ships being fielded, it will require other smaller ships to catch them

-Thus less players dry humping some titan bridge

-Thus causing them to get in smaller ships

-Thus having to spread out to deal with other players in smaller ships

-Thus blobbing less

Anyways.... I'm just theorizing, but some of what I said is not far fetched at all.

We don't want free ships or free PvP at all. All we want is what you risk to be tied to the ship, implants and fittings you decided to bring into combat, NOT of how long you have been a customer.

Though listing it like that looks impressive, I think all these things all touch the same subject.
"Lower clone cost = more stuff getting destroyed."
Don't know if that would be the case.
Like I said before, getting podded is far from certain most of the time. Your ships will still get destroyed though, making all the above true without having to eliminate clone costs completely. Like I stated before, I think they should be a bit cheaper. Just not eliminated or 1 price fits all.




Don't think the fact that new players will benefit from lower clone costs because older players would start flying smaller ships.
Bit farfetched, sorry. Besides, flying a bigger ship hardly means assured victory against a smaller one as we all know.




Hardly think the blob will be stopped if older players started flying smaller ships. The whole idea of the blob is more EHP, DPS, etc. You don't achieve that by downgrading to smaller ships.



I understand that's not what you want. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you an idiot for suggesting this change, I'm just disagreeing with the (in my view) eventual outcome. No clonecosts would have a drastic effect on the way the game is played.
More frantic and in quicker succession pvp is not what I think to be an improvement to overal pvp.
Tactics, planning and strategy is, and eliminating clonecosts would take away from these in the big picture.
More explosions is not the same as better pvp.

Again, I do think clonecosts could be reduced a bit. I also think this is not a major problem for alot of players.

That's fine. We couldn't expect you to understand with the clone equivalent of a squirrels cerebral cortex. It's not your fault.

He idea of forgetting learned skills has some merit.

Take PI as an example. Most if not all jumped on it, how Many regret wasted time on it.

If you had an option to pay to forget a skill it is a an isk sink for ccp and should you wish to train again you have to purchase again.

Players win by getting rid of unwanted skills, ccp benefits by getting isk out of players. Win win

The proposal by Malcanis to stop training at a certain amount of SP and train up an alt is deeply flawed as there is no mechanism in place to unlearn skills and reduce your amount of sp.

If we go on the premise that we want to optimally fly our ships, it requires that a day 1 noob:

has to decide what will be the maximum clone cost that he will be prepared to pay when he eventually get there (lets say it will be the approx 90mill clone that takes 4 years to get)

specialise. So he has to have an EFT plan in place that takes him up to that limit as optimally as possible

not spend SP on anything else for those 4 years. If he does spend SP on anything else it means he has to go over his clone limit to optimally fly the ships that are on his plan or change the plan

---

So day 1 noob creats a Caldari toon. 1st mistake, because in 4 years he is going to be an Amarr titan pro so he has 8000 sp in Caldari frigate whereas that should have been in Amarr frigate (a prereq for the titan) and the 8000 wasted sp could theoretically push him over the clone limit.

Week 1 noob is enjoying frigaes and wants to get tech 2 guns. He can't, not needed for the titan and pushes him over his limit. Same for PI, mining, destroyers, stealth bombers etc

Day 1 noob is clued up and knows about his optimal titan path. Great, for the next 4 years he is going to have crappy frig skills, no dessie skills, no stealth bomber skills etc

Day 1 n00b is clued up and has decided to scrap the titan plan and be a small ship specialist. Now he can't make any decent money as the best bucks come from ratting in a battleship

Now these are all choices. You can train whatever you want but Malcanis's suggestion was to stop training and train up an alt. That only works if you don't make a single mistake. If you do you are flying a sub-optimal toon.

Look at your skills, Malcanis. You have Mining 4 and a load of crap in Social. Mine much? Lvl4 mission much? No, you don't. So those sp would have been better placed in other skillS that improves the ship /modules that you can fly. Therefore, your toon is sub-optimal as you are not prepared to train those better skills as you have imposed a training ban upon yourself.

Have fun flying your sub-optimal toon. Urgh.

Meh, I don't have a pod that is worth less than 2 bill isk.... why would I care about 45 mil?

Maybe already mentioned, but i don't understand why de cost of the clone isn't on the killmail. It's always 1mil (well in eve-kill at least)