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New Dev Blog: My OCD said fix this so I did...

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Emiko P'eng
#101 - 2012-07-16 19:51:11 UTC
Makari Aeron wrote:

To my understanding F.O.F. meant "Friend or Foe".

I definitely like the standardization of the items (finally), but I am still a fan of FoF rather than Auto-Targeting.

My reasoning:
FoF (Friend or Foe) indicates that it will hit ANYTHING (in this case, the largest and closest target)
Auto-Targeting indicates that it will auto-acquire a target.....but the name does not suggest what it will target. Some players may think this means only enemies will be targeted in the same fashion of the Auto-Targeter module.
It is but the military prefer using it to stand for Fire & Forget

Due to the problems with early missiles gaining the derogatory title Friend & Foe due to their habit of targeting anything.

One early attempt to overcome the shortcomings of FoF missiles used pigeons trained to peck a dot on a screen.

Wikipedia - Project Pigeon
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#102 - 2012-07-16 19:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Dragonzchilde wrote:
Exactly what we need

Stop messing around and fix the god damn ******** inventory crap mess.

We are not paying for this renaming ****


"We"? You got mice in your pocket?

And: All you are paying for is the right access the server via the client, not to tell CCP how to spend the money.

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Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#103 - 2012-07-16 19:59:30 UTC
"I made another change as well. When we renamed the category F.O.F. Missiles to Auto-Targeting Missiles the missiles themselves stayed as F.O.F. and so did the skill. I have gone through updated all the auto-targeting missiles to have a matching name scheme along with the blueprints and the skill."

Was this something that was implemented today after DT, or in the near future? (It was unclear in the Blog, and implies that it has already been implemented...)

I ask this only because, well... have a look:

The image I'm linking here is an F.O.F. Missile example of what I'm still seeing in game (19 hours after your Dev Blog):

- our Market BPO collection
- the actual BPO Info itself
- the listing of the BPO in the Market View
- and the Market View of the actual F.O.F.

[ FOF image ]
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#104 - 2012-07-16 20:01:41 UTC
Makari Aeron wrote:
Emiko P'eng wrote:

If you wanted to change it to anything then 'FoF' might be better as that is the universal short hand rather than the EVE current F.O.F. for 'Fire & Forget'

To my understanding F.O.F. meant "Friend or Foe".

I definitely like the standardization of the items (finally), but I am still a fan of FoF rather than Auto-Targeting.

My reasoning:
FoF (Friend or Foe) indicates that it will hit ANYTHING (in this case, the largest and closest target)
Auto-Targeting indicates that it will auto-acquire a target.....but the name does not suggest what it will target. Some players may think this means only enemies will be targeted in the same fashion of the Auto-Targeter module.


Huh, I thought that FoF could discriminate friends from foes... didn't knew they just slammed into whatever. Question

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2012-07-16 20:20:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
CCP FoxFour wrote:
It is actually as follows:
HG-1001 = Short name for implant
HG-1001 = Slot number
HG-1001 = Percentage boost the implant gives

I am actually not sure what the Inherent Implants represents.


Thanks, that makes sense. For the rest:

'Noble' is the implant series. Typing the implant series name into the market is an easy way to find all standard armor tanking implants in case of the 'Noble' series.

Inherent Implants is the manufacturer name, which is purely flavor. Since manufacturers produce several different implant series, typing the manufacturer name into the market is a very inefficient way to find what you want. Knowing the manufacturer name isn't even important when purchasing these implants because they're sold at stations from many different corporations.

Taking all this into consideration, I would suggest the following naming scheme:

'Noble' Hull Upgrades HG-1001
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#106 - 2012-07-16 20:23:36 UTC
Emiko P'eng wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:

To my understanding F.O.F. meant "Friend or Foe".

I definitely like the standardization of the items (finally), but I am still a fan of FoF rather than Auto-Targeting.

My reasoning:
FoF (Friend or Foe) indicates that it will hit ANYTHING (in this case, the largest and closest target)
Auto-Targeting indicates that it will auto-acquire a target.....but the name does not suggest what it will target. Some players may think this means only enemies will be targeted in the same fashion of the Auto-Targeter module.
It is but the military prefer using it to stand for Fire & Forget

Due to the problems with early missiles gaining the derogatory title Friend & Foe due to their habit of targeting anything.

One early attempt to overcome the shortcomings of FoF missiles used pigeons trained to peck a dot on a screen.

Wikipedia - Project Pigeon



Our normal missiles are fire and forget. A non-fire and forget missile is one that you personally have to guide all the way to the target. A fire and forget missile works by telling the missile what target to hit, firing it, and forgetting about it. An auto-targeting missile ( or a friend-or-foe missile) figures out that to hit on its own.

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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#107 - 2012-07-16 20:30:48 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
Anyway you can direct your attentions to the BluePrint section of the market. You guys did a re-organization of the ships and the sub categories they were in. Anyway you could extend that to the blueprints as well?


In what way were you thinking the blueprints section could be improved.?

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#108 - 2012-07-16 20:31:57 UTC
Desmont McCallock wrote:
Sorry if this has been asked and answered before but I'm too lazy to read through the entire thread.
Will the following implants be renamed accordingly ?

Zainou 'Snapshot' FOF Explosion Radius FR-100x -> Zainou 'Snapshot' Auto-Targeting Explosion Radius ATR-100x
Zainou 'Snapshot' Assault Missiles AM-70x -> Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Assault Missiles HAM-70x


On the F.O.F definition related post, F.O.F stands indeed for 'Friend or Foe'.


Ah thank you very much, those were in fact not changed. I will see what I can do about getting them fixed.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
#109 - 2012-07-16 20:33:23 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

To my understanding F.O.F. meant "Friend or Foe".
(...)
Huh, I thought that FoF could discriminate friends from foes... didn't knew they just slammed into whatever. Question


When I first started in 2008, I quickly learned that FOF missiles would target all enemy objects...

That is... until all the enemy targets are eliminated... then if there are any FOF missiles still in flight with no "Foe" targets, they would end up "auto targeting" the next best thing...

...which would most likely be your own ship (or one of your own in a fleet, etc...

Auto-Targeting, for me, kinda makes it seem less understanding of that wee little detail if all "foes" are destroyed. [smirk]
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#110 - 2012-07-16 20:34:00 UTC
Jared Tobin wrote:
"I made another change as well. When we renamed the category F.O.F. Missiles to Auto-Targeting Missiles the missiles themselves stayed as F.O.F. and so did the skill. I have gone through updated all the auto-targeting missiles to have a matching name scheme along with the blueprints and the skill."

Was this something that was implemented today after DT, or in the near future? (It was unclear in the Blog, and implies that it has already been implemented...)

I ask this only because, well... have a look:

The image I'm linking here is an F.O.F. Missile example of what I'm still seeing in game (19 hours after your Dev Blog):

- our Market BPO collection
- the actual BPO Info itself
- the listing of the BPO in the Market View
- and the Market View of the actual F.O.F.

[ FOF image ]


My apologies. These are changes that I have made, but that have not yet been pushed to Tranquility. The changes are on Sisi for testing if you would like to take a look.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Makari Aeron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2012-07-16 20:48:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Makari Aeron
Emiko P'eng wrote:
Makari Aeron wrote:

To my understanding F.O.F. meant "Friend or Foe".

I definitely like the standardization of the items (finally), but I am still a fan of FoF rather than Auto-Targeting.

My reasoning:
FoF (Friend or Foe) indicates that it will hit ANYTHING (in this case, the largest and closest target)
Auto-Targeting indicates that it will auto-acquire a target.....but the name does not suggest what it will target. Some players may think this means only enemies will be targeted in the same fashion of the Auto-Targeter module.
It is but the military prefer using it to stand for Fire & Forget

Due to the problems with early missiles gaining the derogatory title Friend & Foe due to their habit of targeting anything.

One early attempt to overcome the shortcomings of FoF missiles used pigeons trained to peck a dot on a screen.

Wikipedia - Project Pigeon



And I learned something new during the summer. Whodathunkit. Thanks for the heads up.

CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty.

CCP Goliath: I often believe that the best way to get something done is to shout at the person trying to help you. http://goo.gl/PKGDP
Circumstantial Evidence
#112 - 2012-07-16 20:51:14 UTC
While you're renaming things, please look at rigs. They are a jumbled mess when sorted alphabetically, would like to see the names lead off with a Group classification word.

(something like this)
Medium Armor: Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Armor: Aux Nano Pump I
Medium Astronautic: Aux Thrusters I
Desmont McCallock
#113 - 2012-07-16 21:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Desmont McCallock
Changes are not yet on SiSi. Probably will be avail on the next patch release.

Correction: F.O.F fix is not on SiSi.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#114 - 2012-07-16 21:12:53 UTC
Desmont McCallock wrote:
Changes are not yet on SiSi. Probably will be avail on the next patch release.

Correction: F.O.F fix is not on SiSi.


Oh wow, you are correct. I thought all my changes had made it over but apparently not. Sorry about that.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#115 - 2012-07-16 21:22:02 UTC
Re: Blueprints on market

The categories aren't quite right...

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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#116 - 2012-07-16 21:22:16 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
While you're renaming things, please look at rigs. They are a jumbled mess when sorted alphabetically, would like to see the names lead off with a Group classification word.

(something like this)
Medium Armor: Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Armor: Aux Nano Pump I
Medium Astronautic: Aux Thrusters I


Can you elaborate on this a bit? Rigs on the market currently look like:

Ship Modifications -> Rigs -> Category -> Size -> Rig

The rigs themselves are sorted first by meta level ensuring the tech 2 are at the bottom and tech 1 at the top. Then they are sorted alphabetically.

Are you referring to a difficulty in searching rather then just browsing the market categories?

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Antal Marius
Allied Operations
Mechanicus Macabre Immortale
#117 - 2012-07-16 21:31:50 UTC
Omg....a dev that makes common sense seem....reasonable? WHAT IS GOING ON?
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#118 - 2012-07-16 21:36:05 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Re: Blueprints on market

The categories aren't quite right...


OK, I think I see what you mean. There are a few really kinda broken things like the location of the drone blueprints, the probes stuff, and cap boosters. From what I can tell it looks like a lot of the other different categories have been merged due to how much few blueprints there are compared to actual modules.

Is this what you are talking about?

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Lyta Jhonson
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-07-16 21:40:38 UTC
When some people suggested to include damage type to missile names (like "Widowmaker Thermal Heavy Missile") instead of giving all missiles of same damage type same name it was said that names will be too long and now you giving us "Federation Navy Inferno Auto-Targeting Heavy Missile I"? Okay.
Circumstantial Evidence
#120 - 2012-07-16 21:48:37 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
While you're renaming things, please look at rigs. They are a jumbled mess when sorted alphabetically, would like to see the names lead off with a Group classification word.

(something like this)
Medium Armor: Anti-EM Pump I
Medium Armor: Aux Nano Pump I
Medium Astronautic: Aux Thrusters I
Can you elaborate on this a bit? Rigs on the market currently look like:

Ship Modifications -> Rigs -> Category -> Size -> Rig

The rigs themselves are sorted first by meta level ensuring the tech 2 are at the bottom and tech 1 at the top. Then they are sorted alphabetically. Are you referring to a difficulty in searching rather then just browsing the market categories?
Difficulty in searching through items. The market organization is fine, neatly grouping by type. But when I want to fit a ship with armor rigs (example), the different kinds of armor rigs are scrambled with all other types I may have, in a kind of "rig soup." I could type to filter for "trimark" but I would prefer mousing over a tight group of armor icons.