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Amarr ships - a niche?
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Rordan D'Kherr
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-07-16 12:24:48 UTC
I just had a look at the ATX stats and was wondering:

Do fill Amarr ships only a niche today?

Don't be scared, because being afk is not a crime.
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-07-16 12:29:09 UTC
Yes, I call it the "laser face melt" niche. My laser brutix just doesn't feel the same as an Amarr ship doing the same.
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-16 12:33:34 UTC
Amarr ships are used quite frequently in the real world, the alliance tournament is a completely different environment because it has a bunch of specific rules.
pussnheels
Viziam
#4 - 2012-07-16 12:34:00 UTC
Heretic

tgl3 wrote:
Yes, I call it the "laser face melt" niche. My laser brutix just doesn't feel the same as an Amarr ship doing the same.



couldn't have said it better
Somehow amarr ships tend to be not the best ships for tournaments , otherwise they pretty good

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#5 - 2012-07-16 12:36:28 UTC
Lasers... no ammo required. Great for taking down objects that have a ton of hp.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#6 - 2012-07-16 12:40:11 UTC
Amarr ships are susceptible to all forms of Ewar making them weak to anything the other side may bring, while generally lacking the midslots for control and their own forms of Ewar. Also with the massive use of T2 minnie ships lasers just don't work too well.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-07-16 12:42:24 UTC
Jafit wrote:
Amarr ships are used quite frequently in the real world, the alliance tournament is a completely different environment because it has a bunch of specific rules.


This.

I was watching boxing the other day, and I noticed none of the players used any guns. Do guns only serve a niche purpose? Do people fight wars with their fists only?
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#8 - 2012-07-16 13:46:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Amarr ships are susceptible to all forms of Ewar making them weak to anything the other side may bring, while generally lacking the midslots for control and their own forms of Ewar. Also with the massive use of T2 minnie ships lasers just don't work too well.



What?

Lets address that one point at a time;

"Amarr ships are susceptible to all forums of EWAR"

The only EWAR I can think of that you mean might be more effective against Amarr is neutralization, due to the Capacitor dependency of Laser based weaponry, however, you must consider the following things;

Most Amarr ships carry Cap Boosters.
Most Amarr ships have larger cap buffers/regen than there other racial counterparts.
Most Amarr ships cannot have there tank shut down by neutralization (Due to the Capless nature of the EANM)

"Generally lacking the Midslots for control of their own forms of EWAR"

While I will concede that some (Such as the Armageddon) do find their lack of midslots somewhat limiting, most Amarr ships (Due to the Luxury of the Armour tank) have plenty of Mid slots to use for range control, capacitor management and propulsion.
They also gain many more Low Slots to form the massive tanks and high DPS Amarr ships are so famous for.

"Also with the Massive use of T2 minnie ships"

I can think of 4, the Scimitar, Huginn, Claymore, Broadsword, they are popular granted, but none more so than the Drake, Tengu, Onyx, Basilisk, Falcon, Lachesis which have (as I am sure you are aware) a massive EM Hole.
Amarr ships are also the Bane of almost any T1 shield tanker.
Lasers may also have hard time punching through the high resists of T2 Minmatar, however the Raw damage and projection of Lasers makes them an asset more than a curse.

Basically, your arguments are invalid.

Amarr have an awesome PVP lineup, their weapons have huge raw damage and far better projection than any other close range weapon system, they also effectively apply those numbers due to operating to a large degree in optimal, they are very strong armour tankers and generally an excellent close to mid range bruising race.

TLDR, its all swings and roundabouts, they have some disadvantages and some advantages, just like everybody else.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-07-16 14:15:49 UTC
Amarr ships are very bad in every situation.

Amarr ships are only good for mission running in Amarr space and even then Mach and Tengu do it better. Otherwise they are only used in lol setups in tournaments and for light shows in Jita cam.

Lasers can be rendered useless with one neut. Massive explosive hole in armor resists (most used ships, Minmatar T2, are very good counter to any Amarr ship). Limited damage types (if you know you will have to fight Amarr ships you know how to fit your ship).
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2012-07-16 14:19:05 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Amarr ships are very bad in every situation.

Amarr ships are only good for mission running in Amarr space and even then Mach and Tengu do it better. Otherwise they are only used in lol setups in tournaments and for light shows in Jita cam.

Lasers can be rendered useless with one neut. Massive explosive hole in armor resists (most used ships, Minmatar T2, are very good counter to any Amarr ship). Limited damage types (if you know you will have to fight Amarr ships you know how to fit your ship).



Are your actually ********, I just wall of texted for like 20 minutes while I should have been working to discount ALL of those points, look up bro.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#11 - 2012-07-16 14:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Danny John-Peter wrote:
What?



ecm- check
tracking disruption - check
cap warfare - check
dampening - check (moreso than Gallente because Amarr laser setups generally evolve around midrange whereas blaster fits are expected to work short range)

So from all the races they are the most in danger of being countered, because they can be countered by ALL options. I don't see how this is difficult to understand.

On damage types: the Sleipnir and Scimitar being two ships that are used with great success in shield setups I'd say yes it matters, apart from the obvious "if other side is armor tanks lasers do less anyway" which is always an issue. So if you try to play the "lasers have no damage type issues" then card then uhm... yeah.

P.S: did you actually read the OP? He's asking in relation to the AT, where EWAR is rampant.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#12 - 2012-07-16 14:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Dude, Im not talking the Alliance tourney, Im talking the "real" world, where Scimitars & Sleipnirs arent entire fleets.

I would argue that armour tankers in generally are inherently hardened against ECM, due to mid slots to fit ECCM mods.
Cap warfare; read what I already posted, also, Minny shield are pretty vulnerable to Cap Warfare due to lack of cap boosters and presence of invuls, Caldari similarly so, Minmatar also need to go fast, which needs cap.
Damping; Amarr have longer base locking range than most ships in there class brocookie, also, when was the last time you saw Damps used in actual PVP to any real effect.

Again, this is like proper PVP, not tourney PVP, which is full of minny rush.


And no, hes asking if Amarr perform a Niche in the actual game, because they are uncommon in the tourney.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#13 - 2012-07-16 14:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Danny John-Peter wrote:
tourney PVP, which is full of minny rush.



My point exactly. Apart from that, if Amarr wouldn't have this super Scorch ammo then most Amarr ships would be fairly useless in pvp.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#14 - 2012-07-16 14:33:40 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:

And no, hes asking if Amarr perform a Niche in the actual game, because they are uncommon in the tourney.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#15 - 2012-07-16 14:33:44 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
What?



ecm- check
tracking disruption - check
cap warfare - check
dampening - check (moreso than Gallente because Amarr laser setups generally evolve around midrange whereas blaster fits are expected to work short range)

So from all the races they are the most in danger of being countered, because they can be countered by ALL options. I don't see how this is difficult to understand.

On damage types: the Sleipnir and Scimitar being two ships that are used with great success in shield setups I'd say yes it matters, apart from the obvious "if other side is armor tanks lasers do less anyway" which is always an issue. So if you try to play the "lasers have no damage type issues" then card then uhm... yeah.

P.S: did you actually read the OP? He's asking in relation to the AT, where EWAR is rampant.

Minmatar:

ecm - check
tracking disruption - check
cap warfare - check (unless EANM fit armour tanked)
dampening - check

Gallente:

ecm - check
tracking disruption - check
cap warfare - check
dampening - check

Caldari:

ecm - check
tracking disruption - check (unless in a drake)
cap warfare - check (you try flying a drake without your hardeners on)
dampening - most definately check.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#16 - 2012-07-16 14:38:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Arkon Olacar wrote:

Minmatar:

ecm - check
tracking disruption - check
cap warfare - check (unless EANM fit armour tanked)
dampening - check

Gallente:

ecm - check
tracking disruption - check
cap warfare - check
dampening - check

Caldari:

ecm - check
tracking disruption - check (unless in a drake)
cap warfare - check (you try flying a drake without your hardeners on)
dampening - most definately check.


Minnie still does dps when neuted, little detail that
gallente, using blaster fits, don't care much about being damped
caldari ships in tourney are mostly tengu or rook, which sit at range so outside neuts. They also don't care about tracking disruptors. Basilisk being an Xfer Logi is difficult to cap out when paired with something else.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#17 - 2012-07-16 14:38:22 UTC
And tbh, even in the tourney, the lack of successful Amarr set ups is primarily due to the over all meta game and lack of creativity, its far easier to slap an ASB on some Cyclones/Sleipnirs and charge than actually take the time to thing about a more complicated Armour set up.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#18 - 2012-07-16 14:42:09 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
And tbh, even in the tourney, the lack of successful Amarr set ups is primarily due to the over all meta game and lack of creativity, its far easier to slap an ASB on some Cyclones/Sleipnirs and charge than actually take the time to thing about a more complicated Armour set up.


So that's why you mostly fly Minnie ships then, being in an Amarr RP corp/alliance.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#19 - 2012-07-16 14:52:10 UTC
No, its because we liked our set up, and CVA still flies (again in the "real" world) Hellcats, you know, those terrible Laser ships.
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#20 - 2012-07-16 14:55:36 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Danny John-Peter wrote:
What?



ecm- check
tracking disruption - check
cap warfare - check
dampening - check (moreso than Gallente because Amarr laser setups generally evolve around midrange whereas blaster fits are expected to work short range)

So from all the races they are the most in danger of being countered, because they can be countered by ALL options. I don't see how this is difficult to understand.

On damage types: the Sleipnir and Scimitar being two ships that are used with great success in shield setups I'd say yes it matters, apart from the obvious "if other side is armor tanks lasers do less anyway" which is always an issue. So if you try to play the "lasers have no damage type issues" then card then uhm... yeah.

P.S: did you actually read the OP? He's asking in relation to the AT, where EWAR is rampant.



Sicne you want to play this game...


ecm- Minmater has the lowest ECM resilience
tracking disruption - Pulses indeed have the worse tracking of short range turrets, but beams on other hand have the highest tracking. Pulses also have such superiority in range that they are the ones that suffer LESS form the range scripts among all turrets.

cap warfare - Amarr do use cap to fire, like hybrids, but they have larger capacitor reserves tahn any other race, and more cargo space than other races, to carry.. boosters

dampening - Minmatar have the shortest locking range therefore the most affected by dampening.
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