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Is nullsec too violent? Offer a way to enforce NRDS.

Author
XWIER
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-07-15 20:52:47 UTC  |  Edited by: XWIER
This is something that has always bugged me. Eve is meant to be a sandbox, a world in which players can craft whatever they wish to, at least until someone pew pews it down. Despite this, there have been very few (if any) sustained NRDS locations in SOV space. Even when an alliance declares itself NRDS, there's nothing stopping non-alliance members who enter into the area from attacking whoever they want to.

What I'm suggesting is a way for SOV holders to enforce peace in their homeland. Realistically, with all the power that alliances have, shouldn't they be able to enforce peace in their home territory?

When the empires wanted to do this, they created CONCORD. Even in lowsec, the gates and stations still shoot at those who attack without probable cause. Shouldn't a powerful alliance be able to configure their own nullsec areas to do the same?

Obviously, they don't need to be able to deploy the all-powerful concord police captain, but a deterrent still needs to exist. Nullsec trade hubs shouldn't be a pipe dream. Think of all the science-fiction television shows that have "null-security" areas, such as Firefly and Star Trek. People don't just shoot each other on site at trading communities, because these communities are capable of deploying local security.

Players can't enforce this, because unlike Concord, it's really impossible for us to track every player who may or may not be hostile like concord can.

I think a compromise is in order. Alliances should be able to build security devices in their system that will attack all players that commit a hostile action (their own included), including, but not limited to, up-gradable gate guns and outpost guns, as well as security drone facilities. Similar to concord, and on par with carrier fighters, these drones could constantly scan the system for illegal action and attack aggressors. They could be tanked, they could be destroyed, but they'd also allow for a degree of realistic defense that players are incapable of coordinating with in-game mechanics.


TL;DR:
Local police
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#2 - 2012-07-15 21:10:13 UTC
I thought the whole point of low and null was that they didn't have space cops? So... go to HS.
XWIER
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-07-15 21:41:29 UTC
That may be the point of NPC nullsec. The point of SOV space is player control.
ilammy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-07-15 21:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: ilammy
XWIER wrote:
Players can't enforce this, because unlike Concord, it's really impossible for us to track every player who may or may not be hostile like concord can.
If you can't enforce it — you don't have it. Isn't it how anarchy the nullsecs are supposed to be works?

It is nobody's fault execept yours, if you first put your TCU in a ****load of systems, and then complain you can't control all of them. Get more people to your territory, pay the police for your law enforcement 23.75 hours per day.

No... that's a hard way. Forget that we're in MMO sandbox, make more NPC-controlled stuff there.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#5 - 2012-07-15 22:01:23 UTC
Quote:
That may be the point of NPC nullsec. The point of SOV space is player control.


How is creating a bunch of NPCs that police your space player control? Player control is sending a fleet out to kill the people who have invaded your space, and we have that already.
XWIER
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-07-15 22:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: XWIER
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
That may be the point of NPC nullsec. The point of SOV space is player control.


How is creating a bunch of NPCs that police your space player control? Player control is sending a fleet out to kill the people who have invaded your space, and we have that already.


This suggestion has nothing to do with fending off invaders. Just like in highsec, police don't interfere with wars.

This is about independent and small-gang unprovoked aggression. It's player control in the sense that it allows players to adjust the laws governing that area of space. If players should want to mandate laws similar to lowsec or highsec in their own space, while they control it, why should they not be allowed to?
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#7 - 2012-07-15 22:28:15 UTC
Low and null sec trade hubs already exist, they are just (relatively) small. Every null alliance I have been in has had hubs where you will be able to buy almost anything, and smaller hubs where you can at the very least find all the ships and mods needed for your alliance doctrine set ups.

Other than that hubs are largely unneeded these days as everybody has, or knows someone that has, a jf/carrier and can very easily make regular Jita runs. If you want more null/low sec hubs give us a reason to need them, remove invulnerable logistics chains and begin revamping null and low sec industry to incentivise local production.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#8 - 2012-07-15 22:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
The reason you don't see many NRDS alliances is because of the hassle involved. It's simply easier to shoot whoever you don't know than take the risk it might be the alt of someone hostile to you or a unaffiliated player who's been payed off. All it takes is 1 cyno field and your enemy can have a fleet on your doorstep.

As for NPC guards... no. The defender doesn't need any more advantages than they already have (bubbles, easy access to equipment, knowledge of the area, POSs to hide in, friends nearby, etc.).
Plus, on principle, players should be responsible for their own security in null-sec.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#9 - 2012-07-15 22:52:36 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
The reason you don't see many NRDS alliances is because of the hassle involved. It's simply easier to shoot whoever you don't know than take the risk it might be the alt of someone hostile to you or a unaffiliated player who's been payed off. All it takes is 1 cyno field and your enemy can have a fleet on your doorstep.

As for NPC guards... no. The defender doesn't need any more advantages than they already have (bubbles, easy access to equipment, knowledge of the area, POSs to hide in, friends nearby, etc.).
Plus, on principle, players should be responsible for their own security in null-sec.

Not to mention the fact that everyone would instantly turn this on, then begin setting everyone else in Eve red. Meaning that any invasion would require a war dec and 24 hours warning.

It would also subject null sec to the ridiculous loop holes in war dec mechanics, war evasion and the current mess that is crime watch.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Deena Amaj
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-07-15 22:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Deena Amaj
I agree on the case that it is hard for the smaller corps/allies to establish a foot hold on nullsec space, but I fear I must concur with what others said.

Lowsec somewhat does the "job". Of course, getting into 0.0 etc is the hard part.

Nonetheless, sounds like a minor NPC "frontier police" is what you want.


"" wrote:
´Even when an alliance declares itself NRDS, there's nothing stopping non-alliance members who enter into the area from attacking whoever they want to.


EVE is (unfortunately in this case) about "Each to their Own" and there will always be douchbags. Not to forget that eve lives with the existence of douchebagging and asshatery :D

My evil idea-developing lobe though tells me that in that quote of yours, the easiest way would be to introduce some sort of "Blue Standings" options that renders this person or corp literally "untargetable"; say for a set of 30days or somethign like that.


Like a time-limited license of some sort that "Hereby declares NRDS". I don't recall what is color is missing in the color spectrum, but lets say this person could have a "Yellow Standing" for this specifically. Of course, there has to be some consistency with the actual declaration - for instance that once you give it, you cannot remove it unless some minimal time period has passed or if that player destroys a friendly ship.


edit:
heh... "IYCSM"
I'm yellow, can't shoot me.


I don't know, that is just a work around that came up. I know it is flawed, to begin with.

confirthisposmed

I'm probably typing on a Tablet too, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them.

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#11 - 2012-07-15 23:01:03 UTC
Quote:
This is about independent and small-gang unprovoked aggression. It's player control in the sense that it allows players to adjust the laws governing that area of space. If players should want to mandate laws similar to lowsec or highsec in their own space, while they control it, why should they not be allowed to?


Sovereignty doesn't mean you have perfect control over everything that goes on in your space, it means that you get a certain set of system upgrades that can facilitate you living there. Nullsec is still nullsec
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-07-16 02:42:13 UTC
XWIER wrote:
This is something that has always bugged me. Eve is meant to be a sandbox, a world in which players can craft whatever they wish to, at least until someone pew pews it down. Despite this, there have been very few (if any) sustained NRDS locations in SOV space.


There is nothing stopping committed NRDS alliances to implement an around-the-clock force made up of willing players to act in the same manner as Faction Police.

All you would need is a lot of bubbles and pilots on the entry points to NRDS areas.

Your understanding of the 'sandbox' is somewhat flawed, because it is not about crying to mum/dad when you want a pink shovel to make your sand-castle prettier. All the toys to make NRDS areas enforceable are currently available to you in the sandbox. Your complaints about its effectiveness would be better directed at the SOV holders of NRDS space.
Xing Duchance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-07-16 09:16:06 UTC
You have a method of enforcing NRDS... its called your corpmates working together and kicking the everloving crap out of people who ignore it.


If you cant do that you shouldnt be holding the space in the first place.

It's brutal I know, but then thats EVE
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-07-16 09:18:17 UTC
XWIER wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
That may be the point of NPC nullsec. The point of SOV space is player control.


How is creating a bunch of NPCs that police your space player control? Player control is sending a fleet out to kill the people who have invaded your space, and we have that already.


This suggestion has nothing to do with fending off invaders. Just like in highsec, police don't interfere with wars.

This is about independent and small-gang unprovoked aggression. It's player control in the sense that it allows players to adjust the laws governing that area of space. If players should want to mandate laws similar to lowsec or highsec in their own space, while they control it, why should they not be allowed to?



post in chat alliance channels pilit xyz killed a miner. system, p-m. Be nice link the system

NRDS peeps say not in my hood, track him down, pod him.




This is why NRDS does not take off in a big way. By and large the concept of letting non blues live is not popular. Not a goon, pet or pet of a pet...well you know that 10 man goonie hac roam flying in your systems is not there for frapping formation flying around new eden. NBSI they are fair game shoot on sight. NRDS, and you are about as useless as the UN until they wrack a bunch of kills and then you care about em.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-07-16 09:22:35 UTC
I think someone else's signature (I can't remember whose) said it best:

If you're not willing to fight for what you have in EVE, you don't deserve it and you will lose it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#16 - 2012-07-16 09:51:58 UTC
wrote:
...such as Firefly and Star Trek


You shall not use Firefly and Star Trek in one sentence... especially not THAT close to each other.


More serious note:

Imo players should defend their territory on their own.
I might see the logical reason for a player built station to get sentry guns at best.
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#17 - 2012-07-16 13:37:45 UTC
How to improve NRDS:

have better player defense/police fleets

sandbox and all that
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-07-16 18:01:51 UTC
too violent? If there is anything not needed it's a way to make null sec even safer than it has become.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#19 - 2012-07-16 18:07:38 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I think someone else's signature (I can't remember whose) said it best:

If you're not willing to fight for what you have in EVE, you don't deserve it and you will lose it.

Tippia's IIRC.

Although a more accurate version would be: "If you're not willing to fight for what you have in EVE, there's always high sec.".

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]

Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-07-16 19:02:16 UTC
All depends on the power block sticking nbsi

In star trek terms you are a federation flying in romulan territory . You are going to die

In eve it is if you are a goon or a member of the Cfc you will die if you go into there territory.

Bah I hate to say it that the Cfc is like the federation . They don 't barter for renting space, your are there to improve the group as a whole. . I am going to be so podded for saying that as the goon work so hard to appear to be the bad guy

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships

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