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Is CrimeWatch vaporware?

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#141 - 2012-07-16 06:52:16 UTC
As long as RR its self counts as a timer generater then it puts the logistics at risk. Which is what this whole converstion is about.

Grayscale most likely just back from vacation and did not present the idea well.

Hopefully a devblog will kill some of the corner cases and we can argue diffrent ones soonTwisted

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#142 - 2012-07-16 06:55:40 UTC
I'd really like to see how the idea that someone can be shooting at you and receiving remote reps but if you shoot the repping parties you get a blast of concord to the face could possibly be presented well.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#143 - 2012-07-16 06:55:44 UTC
Ohh Yeah wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:

in lowsec, you won't take long to hit -10 as a logi pilot


Gotta disagree with you on this one, your sec status goes down SO SLOWLY flying logi in low-sec. Killing frigate rats on gates makes up for the sec status loss. Repping a friendly before your GCC runs out means you only have to get 1 sec status hit every time you go out.

We're talking going from -1.5 to -1.51 from getting your single GCC each time you roam low-sec.


mistakes were made

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#144 - 2012-07-16 06:56:27 UTC
Ohh Yeah wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Why are some people so unwilling to stir up the pot and see what happens? Fearless my a55...

Because having participants in a fight that can't be shot at it stupid.

Because having suspects unable to shoot those aggressing their suspect friends right in front of them is stupid.

Because CCP Greyscale makes posts only defending his decisions rather than accepting criticisms, and seems ready to sacrifice gameplay quality at the expense of simplicity.


You and I aren't even arguing opposing points, you know.

Read the original CrimeWatch thread. CCP Greyscale had a lot to say.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#145 - 2012-07-16 06:57:20 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'd really like to see how the idea that someone can be shooting at you and receiving remote reps but if you shoot the repping parties you get a blast of concord to the face could possibly be presented well.

Thats no what he said. I'll wait for clerification before I add to this troll threadBlink

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#146 - 2012-07-16 06:58:24 UTC
Err that's literally what he said.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#147 - 2012-07-16 07:00:55 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'd really like to see how the idea that someone can be shooting at you and receiving remote reps but if you shoot the repping parties you get a blast of concord to the face could possibly be presented well.


No one said it should be easy to pvp in hi-sec.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#148 - 2012-07-16 07:01:16 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Err that's literally what he said.

He sayed it both ways in the last 24 hours once on the stream (transfer of the timer for those who you rep) and then the opposite in this thread. Waiting for the clearification post.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#149 - 2012-07-16 07:03:57 UTC
dexington wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'd really like to see how the idea that someone can be shooting at you and receiving remote reps but if you shoot the repping parties you get a blast of concord to the face could possibly be presented well.


No one said it should be easy to pvp in hi-sec.

Seems pretty easy for the people who can be remotely assisted by as many people as they can find with no danger of ever being shot at to me.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#150 - 2012-07-16 07:13:52 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
dexington wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'd really like to see how the idea that someone can be shooting at you and receiving remote reps but if you shoot the repping parties you get a blast of concord to the face could possibly be presented well.


No one said it should be easy to pvp in hi-sec.

Seems pretty easy for the people who can be remotely assisted by as many people as they can find with no danger of ever being shot at to me.

Why do you look like a Quaker. That's the real question...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#151 - 2012-07-16 07:16:08 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Seems pretty easy for the people who can be remotely assisted by as many people as they can find with no danger of ever being shot at to me.


Before you get to the point where you can shoot at someone while getting the remote assistance, but parties need to take certain steps. You flip the jetcan and he shoots at you, what happens next may be dirty and unfair, but that is just eve.

Maybe i have just misunderstood the new design, but i don't think you can just fly around with a logi support and shoot random people, without condor showing up.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#152 - 2012-07-16 07:19:51 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Tsubutai wrote:

I assume you mean "for obvious server performance reasons" there because from a gameplay standpoint, that stinks and is one of the things everyone hates about neutral RR as it stands.

Yet again I'm going to have to point out that it is NOT currently the case that neutral RR can't be shot at.

Yeah, my original post was clumsily worded. I actually edited it for accuracy before you and Ohh Yeah posted, but I guess you'd already hit reply and started writing by then.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#153 - 2012-07-16 07:21:41 UTC
Quick someone sell me some oats.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#154 - 2012-07-16 07:24:25 UTC
It's all part of my plan you see.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#155 - 2012-07-16 07:25:46 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:


We allow one-time mappings but we don't make them transitive, ie if you're a suspect and someone shoots you then you can always fire back, but if that person has a third party repping them, you can't shoot the logi because we don't allow aggression transfer like that (for obvious reasons).


This is precisely what is wrong with all the existing game design in the first place.

I'd like to point out for the billionth time that with the current game mechanics you will never be in a situation where you are shooting someone who is being assisted by logi and you can't shoot the logi. Once again because repetition helps people remember, it is currently the that logistics will always be flagged towards whoever is shooting at the person they are assisting.

So greyscale's crimewatch isn't even a failure to move forward, it is a direct step backwards.


I know the current mechanics. What I'm saying is, CCP is continuing to remove sets of actions that will cost players their lives instead of being inclusive with respect to actions and situations that will allow you to be killed. There are numerous combinations of events that have been designed out of the game that used to allow players to be killed. Again, CCP keeps handholding instead of letting the noobs die a few dozen times in order to get the hang of things.

But yes, I agree, it's a direct step backwards and in the wrong direction.

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Derron Bel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2012-07-16 07:51:41 UTC
Um I sympathize and agree with the point that neutral repairers should be valid targets, but honestly: Greyscale is right about how easily the suspect/vigilante thing could be turned around. It would be simplicity itself to set up Suspect bait/gank squads.
Pipa Porto
#157 - 2012-07-16 08:09:28 UTC
Derron Bel wrote:
Um I sympathize and agree with the point that neutral repairers should be valid targets, but honestly: Greyscale is right about how easily the suspect/vigilante thing could be turned around. It would be simplicity itself to set up Suspect bait/gank squads.


(That's pretty much the point of the Suspect v Vigilante team idea, turn it into a pickup game of PvP)

If everyone is able to shoot suspects, suspects should be able to team up to fight back.

If we keep individual aggression for petty crimes, and global aggression for serious crimes, then we don't need to allow suspects to group together, because people won't be able to significantly group together against them.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#158 - 2012-07-16 08:22:10 UTC
The earlier proposal of things like stealing loot from cans giving you some kind of global flag allowing everyone in EVE to shoot you is one of those very pants-on-head ******** ideas that should never have been discussed or taken further than the initial idiotic utterance.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#159 - 2012-07-16 08:28:46 UTC
Just remove all non newbie PvE from anywhere that has CONCORD, Missions, Incursions, Mining, Exploration, the lot! Would fix so much that is wrong with EVE and push this game back firmly into the Sandbox category of MMO. Crimewatch will always be flawed, the very concept is bad, nothing good can come from it, no matter how much tinkering.

Seriously it would be less damaging to EVE to subject it to Trammel esk shard split, than to go further down this road of turning Highsec into a safe zone loaded with PvE that is valuable to non newbie players.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#160 - 2012-07-16 08:46:48 UTC
On the issue of neutral reppers, the only argument I've seen in favour of not including them in the aggression is along the lines of "but then you might end up with aggression/GCC for something another player does!" ... well that's a risk you took when deciding to help that player. If you don't trust them to not do something off the rails and end up involving you in a fight you didn't expect or want to be in, then don't rep them. Simple.

The idea of invincible neutral logis is horrifically stupid. Go back to the drawing board, greyscale.