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Is CrimeWatch vaporware?

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Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2012-07-16 06:19:53 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Go back and actually read the posts.


It's not as if two members of two wealthy nullsec alliances loaded to the teeth with technetium have been posting against the idea of immune RR!

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#122 - 2012-07-16 06:24:19 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Go back and actually read the posts.


It's not as if two members of two wealthy nullsec alliances loaded to the teeth with technetium have been posting against the idea of immune RR!


Our tech empire would crumble
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#123 - 2012-07-16 06:25:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
I think that some of you are planning too far ahead. Even the sov changes for Dominion created opportunities for many. Sadly, what I think everyone failed to realize is the the Dominion expansion would wipe out a vastly complex ecosystem that the devs and frankly the players didn't appreciate the depth of.

My thoughts on crimewatch are of a more wait and see approach in practice, but in principal I think one that supports more complex gameplay outcomes will be used in a greater variety of ways by the players would be better. More options are always good, but the net effect on the playerbase? I don't think anyone writing in this thread can claim to know the outcome. My fear is that in eliminating variables some players might not like, the devs will respond by making such simplistic and incremental changes that truly varied gameplay will not be possible. Those few permutations of surviving options will be plotted out by the geekery of eve, and will be discounted as they effectively were with Dominion era sov warfare and abandoned in lke kind, leaving a conformal gery goo of boring gameplay for pods. When did we get so scared of radical change? Why are some people so unwilling to stir up the pot and see what happens? Fearless my a55...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#124 - 2012-07-16 06:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Go back and actually read the posts.


It's not as if two members of two wealthy nullsec alliances loaded to the teeth with technetium have been posting against the idea of immune RR!

I'm at a total loss as to what goons would even be doing in highsec that would involve un-shootable logistics.

I mean even if you're in highsec shooting jita campers and the jita campers have logistics that has gone suspect for repping a war target the logistics that are repping you are going to either: A) Be in corp/alliance where the war targets will be able to shoot them anyway B) Be neutral and also be suspect flagged because the people they have been repping are at war.

You'd have to bring neutral combat characters and neutral logistics for it to even make sense.

Although maybe I missed something and there's now a huge anti-ninja salvaging movement in GSF.
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#125 - 2012-07-16 06:30:08 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Why are some people so unwilling to stir up the pot and see what happens? Fearless my a55...



Because having participants in a fight that can't be shot at it stupid.

Because having suspects unable to shoot those aggressing their suspect friends right in front of them is stupid.

Because CCP Greyscale makes posts only defending his decisions rather than accepting criticisms, and seems ready to sacrifice gameplay quality at the expense of simplicity.
mkint
#126 - 2012-07-16 06:31:02 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Go back and actually read the posts.


It's not as if two members of two wealthy nullsec alliances loaded to the teeth with technetium have been posting against the idea of immune RR!

actually this is probably the best argument that grayscale's ideas are just plain bad, and he's not just plain corrupt. Well, except in that vague bureaucrat-trying-to-justify-his-job kind of way.

Seriously, why has CCP been working so hard to revamp stuff that works just fine (if not optimally), but leaving stuff that is essentially game-breaking untouched? The awful new inventory, the awful neocom, the wardec revamp... all of that worked before, more or less. What about ****-poor corp management tools? What about POSes? What about broad swathes of gameplay being dead ends, abandoned, or flat out broken?

CCP, please for the love of sweet baby jeebus, if you're going to revamp systems that already function, stop making them worse off than they already were.

Or maybe CCP really hasn't changed since pre-barbie. They are still just fumbling in the dark, not actually playing their game.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Pipa Porto
#127 - 2012-07-16 06:32:41 UTC
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Where did I make a Real Life Comparison? CONCORD provides consequences once you do something wrong and not a moment before. Why should CONCORD randomly decide that some Catalysts deserve death? As it is, your history of ganking is taken into account. The Faction Navies will hunt you and you can be preemptively shot at.

I'm not surprised by it. I think you've suggested it before. And I think I've pointed you to LowSec before. Lowsec is pretty much HS without CONCORD. Enjoy.


wait since when can you not bring dreadnaughts and **** into lowsec?
Oh yeah... you can, so that comparison fails too

and btw; real life comparison: Innocent until proven guilty. Unless thats the in game rule of law in this game too and if so then CONCORD are just retards


"Pretty Much," and Caps are pretty easy to avoid in LS. Besides that, CONCORD is the RP reason for HS's Cyno Jamming. Bear

I said Innocent until actually guilty. No RL system uses that, because no RL system has magic crime detection powah like CONCORD does. Tell me, what alternative is there to punishing people after they commit crimes?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#128 - 2012-07-16 06:32:50 UTC
mkint wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You have no idea what you're talking about. Go back and actually read the posts.


It's not as if two members of two wealthy nullsec alliances loaded to the teeth with technetium have been posting against the idea of immune RR!

actually this is probably the best argument that grayscale's ideas are just plain bad, and he's not just plain corrupt. Well, except in that vague bureaucrat-trying-to-justify-his-job kind of way.

Seriously, why has CCP been working so hard to revamp stuff that works just fine (if not optimally), but leaving stuff that is essentially game-breaking untouched? The awful new inventory, the awful neocom, the wardec revamp... all of that worked before, more or less. What about ****-poor corp management tools? What about POSes? What about broad swathes of gameplay being dead ends, abandoned, or flat out broken?

CCP, please for the love of sweet baby jeebus, if you're going to revamp systems that already function, stop making them worse off than they already were.

Or maybe CCP really hasn't changed since pre-barbie. They are still just fumbling in the dark, not actually playing their game.


Don't backpedal too fast, you'll steer off the sidewalk and crack your dignity
Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#129 - 2012-07-16 06:34:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsubutai
CCP Greyscale wrote:
We allow one-time mappings but we don't make them transitive, ie if you're a suspect and someone shoots you then you can always fire back, but if that person has a third party repping them, you can't shoot the logi because we don't allow aggression transfer like that (for obvious reasons).

I assume you mean "for obvious server performance reasons" there because from a gameplay standpoint, that stinks. Neutral RR is bad enough when it's allowed to dock/jump at will if primaried; being completely immune to retaliation would make it absurd.
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#130 - 2012-07-16 06:37:26 UTC
Tsubutai wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
We allow one-time mappings but we don't make them transitive, ie if you're a suspect and someone shoots you then you can always fire back, but if that person has a third party repping them, you can't shoot the logi because we don't allow aggression transfer like that (for obvious reasons).

I assume you mean "for obvious server performance reasons" there because from a gameplay standpoint, that stinks. Neutral RR is bad enough when it's allowed to dock/jump at will if primaried; being completely immune to retaliation would make it absurd.



Oh but he later justified it by saying something along the lines of "you reach a point where you just have to say "you committed crimes, this isn't going to be an easy fight" and tough luck"

So asinine
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#131 - 2012-07-16 06:37:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Tsubutai wrote:

I assume you mean "for obvious server performance reasons" there because from a gameplay standpoint, that stinks and is one of the things everyone hates about neutral RR as it stands.

Yet again I'm going to have to point out that it is NOT currently the case that neutral RR can't be shot at.

Right now on TQ if someone is repping someone that you are shooting at you can shoot the person that is repping them and if the person they are repping has aggression versus your corp or alliance then your corp or alliance can shoot the person repping too. It has been that way for as long as I have been playing the game.

Within the current game mechanics there is no invulnerable logistics.

I feel like I'm going to have to post that on every single page because apparently nobody actually knows what the current mechanics are and just assumes that logistics is invulnerable when repping in highsec even though it's totally untrue.
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#132 - 2012-07-16 06:40:13 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

Within the current game mechanics there is no invulnerable logistics.

I feel like I'm going to have to post that on every single page because apparently nobody actually knows what the current mechanics are and just assumes that logistics is invulnerable when repping in highsec even though it's totally untrue.


Docking permission requested


Docking request accepted
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#133 - 2012-07-16 06:42:01 UTC
mkint wrote:
actually this is probably the best argument that grayscale's ideas are just plain bad, and he's not just plain corrupt. Well, except in that vague bureaucrat-trying-to-justify-his-job kind of way.

Seriously, why has CCP been working so hard to revamp stuff that works just fine (if not optimally), but leaving stuff that is essentially game-breaking untouched? The awful new inventory, the awful neocom, the wardec revamp... all of that worked before, more or less. What about ****-poor corp management tools? What about POSes? What about broad swathes of gameplay being dead ends, abandoned, or flat out broken?

CCP, please for the love of sweet baby jeebus, if you're going to revamp systems that already function, stop making them worse off than they already were.

Or maybe CCP really hasn't changed since pre-barbie. They are still just fumbling in the dark, not actually playing their game.


The new inventory system works great now that they fixed a lot of the performance issues - we have a corp hangar tab that often has 500+ individual stacks inside (assembled frigates for newbies) that previously took several minutes to load, and now it loads in moments. The new neocom is also great considering that I don't have to have crap that I never use there (jukebox, journal) and can have stuff on the main bar that I /do/ use.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#134 - 2012-07-16 06:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Ohh Yeah wrote:


Docking permission requested


Docking request accepted




I wasn't aware that there was some magical feature in every type of space other than highsec that prevented logistics ships from docking or jumping while repping someone.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#135 - 2012-07-16 06:44:41 UTC
also, logistics is literally only balanced in 0.0

in lowsec, you won't take long to hit -10 as a logi pilot and in hisec, well, soon you'll literally be immune to retaliation because Aggression Transfer is Bad

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#136 - 2012-07-16 06:47:12 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
They can dock or jump regardless of the type of space they are in.


And in every type of space, sitting on a station and repping makes you 100% invulnerable. You'd have to be an idiot to die while motoring around the station in docking range repairing your friendlies.

Not only can they shoot you, but doing so only baits the DPS off of your friendlies while they continue to die. You can bait into low armor and then dock your precious Guardian up and then come right back out.

That's a joke. That should never have been allowed to go on as long as it has.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#137 - 2012-07-16 06:47:14 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Aggression Transfer is Bad

I know right! Heaven forfend that people be able to shoot at the people who are actively performing aggressive actions against them.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#138 - 2012-07-16 06:47:29 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I wasn't aware that there was some magical feature in every type of space other than highsec that prevented logistics ships from docking or jumping while repping someone.


there is, it's called bubbles and fights happening at places other than stations and gates

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#139 - 2012-07-16 06:49:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ohh Yeah
Richard Desturned wrote:

in lowsec, you won't take long to hit -10 as a logi pilot


Gotta disagree with you on this one, your sec status goes down SO SLOWLY flying logi in low-sec. Killing frigate rats on gates makes up for the sec status loss. Repping a friendly before your GCC runs out means you only have to get 1 sec status hit every time you go out.

We're talking going from -1.5 to -1.51 from getting your single GCC each time you roam low-sec.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#140 - 2012-07-16 06:49:45 UTC
Ohh Yeah wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
They can dock or jump regardless of the type of space they are in.


And in every type of space, sitting on a station and repping makes you 100% invulnerable. You'd have to be an idiot to die while motoring around the station in docking range repairing your friendlies.

Not only can they shoot you, but doing so only baits the DPS off of your friendlies while they continue to die. You can bait into low armor and then dock your precious Guardian up and then come right back out.

That's a joke. That should never have been allowed to go on as long as it has.

The gentleman I quoted was talking specifically about neutral RR, the lack of a weapons timer on logistics has literally nothing to do with its neutrality so I'm still failing to see how brining this entire thing up is relevant. I don't disagree, it just has nothing to do with what I was talking about.