EVE General Discussion

For this to work the game still needs to maintain a list of pilot vs pilot rights. That is it needs to have a list of which pilots can shoot which other pilots without getting the flag.

The entire idea of the new system is to eliminate the need to track pilot vs pilot rights of any sort. That's not to say its a bad idea, it may be to get a workable system a list of pilot vs pilot rights of some sort is needed.

They have already stated that they want some folks to be able to shoot at suspects without getting flags themselves. So there has to be some sort of pilot vs pilot rights. But they don't want the pilot timers transferable which is what the actual problem is (the whole chaining of timers means replicating timers everywhere and updating a whole lot of stuff on multiple pilots all the time)

Examples that have been given include can flipping. They don't want the people who were stolen from to get omgsurpriseexploded if they steal their stuff back or shoot the buttinski. At the same time the buttinski should be able to defend himself. So they need the pilot vs pilot rights. As well as corp vs pilot timers. (If you stole from a corporation can, my whole corp should be able to shoot at you without being considered 'buttinskis')

At the same time... Anyone who does butt in; the white knight, the 'paid security', or even another pirate-y player, runs a very real risk of getting shot into pieces by other white knights, paid security or pirate-y players.

At the very least it can add the whole new profession of 'private security' in highsec. As well as 'the guy who wanders around flagged all the time with backup following 2 jumps behind' in an attempt to get some cheap ganks going. As well as making stealing from cans and wrecks on a gate way more dangerous.

Risk is more balanced. Sure, stealing from a can is dangerous. But not much more dangerous than it was before. Chances are folks aren't going to white knight for fear of the guy can flipping having friends. Unless they think they have enough friends to deal with the situation.

Thing is, we're not back to square one. We have some...interesting side effects already of the changes they are making to crimewatch. The refactoring is introducing subtle changes to the mechanics already. It is just stuff you don't normally see because you don't ride the edges of the game mechanics hard enough during normal play.

I've seen enough odd stuff that I will probably try out on SiSi later now. Just to see if the changes I think they are making are in the same ball park.

They are trying to untie the gordian knot by using scissors and glue to cut a piece out..and glue the ends back together in a more convenient spot. Creating something under a new system that works like the old one. Stuff they don't announce in patch notes suddenly acting subtly differently. (Have you noticed that you can no longer keep looking at objects over 100km away?) Now, I doubt that is because of the crimewatch refactoring. But who knows why it suddenly started to behave as it probably should have for years with nary a peep about the fix.

We're well beyond where we could even think about going back to square one. Now to see if we cannot get CCP to implement something reasonably good that also satisfies their stated goals.

A global flag upon theft makes Suicide Ganking Freighters prohibitively dangerous (especially if you wrap your cargo up in something bigger than anything a non-freighter can carry). The looting freighter will almost certainly get tackled and killed. (So the new Freighter safe cargo limit would be something like 5-8b to compensate for the risk of freighter loss).

A global flag essentially kills canflipping as a mini-profession (If CCP wants to do this, they should come out and say it), since canflipping is all about getting into a limited engagement.

A global flag kills HS 1v1s, since now everybody can come shoot you because you stole.

A global flag makes HS safer for carebears.

So now we've changed Freighter ganking from something hard but doable (25ish people in Nados, 1 alt in a freighter) to something that takes that plus a ton of BBs/Falcons who're also going to die because they've been flagged to everyone, plus the freighter who's still going to die, because EVERYONE can shoot at him. Maybe in the backwaters, there might be few enough people for you to get a freighter into warp, but in the main trade lanes, Suicide Ganking will die an ignominious death. Jamming, after all, doesn't do much against a bump ship.

Here's a thought, let the wreck of a dead PC ship be owned by whoever struck the killing blow, and give someone who's can is flipped a choice between a 1v1 flag and a Global flag (or No flag vs a Global flag). Downside is that people looting their own wrecks after whatever embarrassing NPC loss will get a buttinski flag, but hey, HTFU, right?

Arguing against a stupid and massive rule change (with a bunch of repercussions that CCP clearly hasn't thought about*) isn't something that implies that I need to HTFU. Of course people will adapt to this if it happens. And then the carebears will whine more, just like they did after the Insurance nerf to suicide ganking (hailed as the end of Suicide ganking by most carebear circles at the time). A five to eightfold increase in the cost of Suicide ganking a freighter is the biggest increase that we've seen since CONCORD stopped being tankable, and that's just the first thing that came to mind when I sat down to figure out what the global flag would break.

*They were going to let people use Logi without being shootable by the opposing side until it was pointed out in this thread tht that would be stupid.

Simpletons with fat wallets and bad senses of judgement?

Wonder how Crimewatch is looking now... been a while since we got an update...

Seriously, enough with the necrotrolling.

What you are thinking of is mercenaries.

Why is this thread still alive?