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Is CrimeWatch vaporware?

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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#361 - 2012-07-17 16:18:49 UTC
Rara Yariza wrote:

If people are ignorant it is because they are willfully ignorant.


No, not always.

I'd wager there are things you don't even know you're ignorant of that you would choose to learn - if you knew they existed.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Price Check Aisle3
#362 - 2012-07-17 16:31:42 UTC
Reading through this thread, you have to wonder if the punishment fits the crime. Gank somebody and CONCORD blows up your ship. Steal someone's **** and now everybody in EVE can shoot you. Right now it is up to the victim of theft to decide whether to punish the perp, after CW 2.0 it is up to EVE.

Seems ganking will be a far safer form of crime...
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#363 - 2012-07-17 16:40:14 UTC
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Seems ganking will be a far safer form of crime...
So a 100% chance of being blown up automatically by the game itself and the complete inability to do anything to prevent or delay it is “far safer” than having a less-than-100% chance of players chasing you (and a less-than-100% chance of them killing you on top of that) and having every and all means available at your disposal to prevent and delay this chance of destruction…


I don't think I particularly share your view on relative safety.
Price Check Aisle3
#364 - 2012-07-17 16:55:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Price Check Aisle3
Tippia wrote:
So a 100% chance of being blown up automatically by the game itself and the complete inability to do anything to prevent or delay it is “far safer” than having a less-than-100% chance of players chasing you (and a less-than-100% chance of them killing you on top of that) and having every and all means available at your disposal to prevent and delay this chance of destruction…

Most certainly. I can control the risk during ganking since I know exactly when i will blow up. I can't control other players and when they'll blow me up under the new CW rules if I'm stealing ****. Furthermore, if I'm stealing **** I've likely got a cargohold full of stuff that I'll eventually want to sell and I'm not particularly looking forward to "surprisesecks". Under the old rules the victim was responsible for meting out the punishment; under the new rules anyone can.

This definitely makes "ninja-looting" a much more dangerous profession.

Under the new CW rules, will a suspect be poddable in HS without CONCORD interference? How about a felon?

Tippia wrote:
I don't think I particularly share your view on relative safety.

You don't have to. That's why we have discussions like this.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#365 - 2012-07-17 17:00:19 UTC
Long ago, when I first started playing this game, I remember being proud of the one graph showing the steep learning curve to play this game (especially with the dead stick figures P ). I felt that this game would offer a challenge - something to "work" towards instead of mindlessly grinding away. I experimented with different aspects to the game. I asked other players and read the forums to see what others discovered. But then the ~little~ changes started arriving over the years - some for good and many in my opinion for bad. The removal of the learning skills and freely gifting everyone while downsizing my maximum potential. Or limiting war declarations because players could not stand up to the Privateers back in the day. Lately the removal of "unique" names to substandard simple names for modules across the board for whatever jacked up reason. And now how high sec space should be totally safe because brand wet behind the ears and clueless about the world newbie got all excited at some ad that he can control the whole universe and getting smacked in the snot box might send him to go crying to his momma and leave with his brand new account, that steep learning curve has been bulldozed flat to be more "friendly".

I, of course, could be completely off my rocker...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#366 - 2012-07-17 17:02:25 UTC
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Most certainly. I can control the risk during ganking since I know exactly when i will blow up. I can't control other players and when they'll blow me up under the new CW rules if I'm stealing ****.
Sure you can. You pick your time and place and ensure that you have a good hand-off in place to make the loot safe. Your focus will be to have a good get-away plan so you can safe up and cloak.

Quote:
Furthermore, if I'm stealing **** I've likely got a cargohold full of stuff that I'll eventually want to sell and I'm not particularly looking forward to "surprisesecks".
The whole “eventually” part means that there is no need to worry about any surprises (well… beyond being ganked for carrying to many goodies in your hauler). Even less so if you have an alt.
Price Check Aisle3
#367 - 2012-07-17 17:19:24 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sure you can. You pick your time and place and ensure that you have a good hand-off in place to make the loot safe. Your focus will be to have a good get-away plan so you can safe up and cloak.

I'm not arguing that it will no longer be possible (or fun or require more skill), simply that it will be more dangerous. Does the punishment actually fit the crime? Under the current rules we have a sort of "eye for an eye" thing going. Under the new rules, stealing will be punishable by anyone, rather than the victim.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#368 - 2012-07-17 17:27:53 UTC
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sure you can. You pick your time and place and ensure that you have a good hand-off in place to make the loot safe. Your focus will be to have a good get-away plan so you can safe up and cloak.

I'm not arguing that it will no longer be possible (or fun or require more skill), simply that it will be more dangerous. Does the punishment actually fit the crime? Under the current rules we have a sort of "eye for an eye" thing going. Under the new rules, stealing will be punishable by anyone, rather than the victim.

This is going to make very difficult for ninja looters in lowsec, that's for sure. I see the sun starting to set on the ninja looting profession. Ganking for profit will likely be out. Ganking in general... unless the motivation is like that of the goons trying to influence the isotope market or something, but that will require significant numbers of players to achieve. Maybe it would be cool if having a vigilante flag gave people with a sec status below 0 the right to shoot them there could still be fighting in highsec.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Price Check Aisle3
#369 - 2012-07-17 17:37:20 UTC
Gogela wrote:
This is going to make very difficult for ninja looters in lowsec, that's for sure. I see the sun starting to set on the ninja looting profession.

In low-sec?

In high-sec, eh... I still think most people won't even bother except for a few dudes who will camp the docking rings in major missioning hubs and those butt-hurt idiots who get mad at salvagers (which shouldn't trigger a flag anyway...) I'll definitely still do it when I'm bored of whatever else I've been up to.

Gogela wrote:
Ganking for profit will likely be out. Ganking in general... unless the motivation is like that of the goons trying to influence the isotope market or something, but that will require significant numbers of players to achieve. Maybe it would be cool if having a vigilante flag gave people with a sec status below 0 the right to shoot them there could still be fighting in highsec.

Ganking for fun is still in, lol. Oh Yeah's vigilante/criminal flags thing sounds pretty cool for pick-up PvP but I don't think it's a good system for actual punishment of crimes and would end up being a bit too "griefy" in the end. Who knows...

I honestly think CW 2.0 is a case of CCP going "What would be the easiest way to do this in code" and then doing it, rather than exploring what constitutes a crime and what the appropriate punishment should be.
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#370 - 2012-07-17 17:38:40 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Ganking for profit will likely be out.
Nah. You just do what you do right now if you want to be really careful: have an Orca on standby (it blends in well in belts for one), and dump all ze lewt into the corp hangar… Blink
Pipa Porto
#371 - 2012-07-17 17:42:39 UTC
So here's a question:
Since I still own my wreck when I die, how does someone Suicide ganking my freighter pick up my stuff? Especially since I'm gonna pack expensive stuff into ships (or at least use ships as cover so it appears that I'm doing so). Going suspect in a Freighter to loot stuff seems unwise to me.

Another Stealth nerf to Suicide Ganks?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#372 - 2012-07-17 17:43:11 UTC
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Gogela wrote:
This is going to make very difficult for ninja looters in lowsec, that's for sure. I see the sun starting to set on the ninja looting profession.

In low-sec?

In high-sec, eh... I still think most people won't even bother except for a few dudes who will camp the docking rings in major missioning hubs and those butt-hurt idiots who get mad at salvagers (which shouldn't trigger a flag anyway...) I'll definitely still do it when I'm bored of whatever else I've been up to.

Yah... me too... but we'll loose more ships. Lowsec is better for ninja looting because you loot player ships, which are way better than NPCs. I don't even know why people loot missions and stuff... not very good isk for the effort even under the current mechanics. I've tried it and was too bored and too broke. ...but yes the Crimewatch mechanic is very important in lowsec too...

Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Ganking for profit will likely be out. Ganking in general... unless the motivation is like that of the goons trying to influence the isotope market or something, but that will require significant numbers of players to achieve. Maybe it would be cool if having a vigilante flag gave people with a sec status below 0 the right to shoot them there could still be fighting in highsec.

Ganking for fun is still in, lol. Oh Yeah's vigilante/criminal flags thing sounds pretty cool for pick-up PvP but I don't think it's a good system for actual punishment of crimes and would end up being a bit too "griefy" in the end. Who knows...

I honestly think CW 2.0 is a case of CCP going "What would be the easiest way to do this in code" and then doing it, rather than exploring what constitutes a crime and what the appropriate punishment should be.

Everyone I know who actually ganks for fun in highsec is pretty rich, imho. They are a minority of gankers. You may play with a bunch of people that do it for fun, but I'll wager all of your friends are doing pretty well in ISK terms too. Most of the people I know who gank in general are doing it for profit. Yah they have fun, but that's not their main objective. The loot is the imperative goal.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#373 - 2012-07-17 17:44:59 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Since I still own my wreck when I die, how does someone Suicide ganking my freighter pick up my stuff?
Jump-freighter drive-by with web support? P
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#374 - 2012-07-17 17:45:43 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Ganking for profit will likely be out.
Nah. You just do what you do right now if you want to be really careful: have an Orca on standby (it blends in well in belts for one), and dump all ze lewt into the corp hangar… Blink

Then those orcas become a profitable target for vigilantes. If it becomes possible to hit the loot ship, and not get flagged, than people will do it. When ganking becomes less profitable, people will stop ganking (with the exception of those doing it for lulz, of course)

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#375 - 2012-07-17 18:02:22 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Then those orcas become a profitable target for vigilantes.
No. The Orca won't be flagged for anything (nor will it drop anything if someone decides to suicide-gank it). They'll be as unprofitable targets as ever.

Sure, you might lose the thief in his free Ibis, and depending on how the flagging works, you might even lose the thief's free clone. Oh my… Blink
Ohh Yeah
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#376 - 2012-07-17 18:06:05 UTC
Nobody answered my question before, so I'll post it again:

If using an out-of-corp character to remote repair someone at war triggers a suspect flag, will I be able to dump war decs on all of the major incursion alliances, ensuring that they can never fly mixed fleets due to unwanted suspect flags?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#377 - 2012-07-17 18:09:48 UTC
Ohh Yeah wrote:
Nobody answered my question before
I did. Well, kind of.

If you want an answer on how it works on CCP's planning whiteboards at the moment, then you should direct it to Greyscale, not the general public. It's an interesting problem, but it's far from unsolvable, and how it will work will depend on exactly how the suspect-flagging will be triggered, which we don't fully know yet.
Pipa Porto
#378 - 2012-07-17 18:10:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Since I still own my wreck when I die, how does someone Suicide ganking my freighter pick up my stuff?
Jump-freighter drive-by with web support? P


Suddenly, BUMP! Plus, you'd need 2-3 Jump Freighters ready to drive by (since the wreck's not gonna last 15m), for a 21b commitment to the "fight."

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#379 - 2012-07-17 18:10:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Then those orcas become a profitable target for vigilantes.
No. The Orca won't be flagged for anything (nor will it drop anything if someone decides to suicide-gank it). They'll be as unprofitable targets as ever.

Sure, you might lose the thief in his free Ibis, and depending on how the flagging works, you might even lose the thief's free clone. Oh my… Blink

Ah... I see how your deal works. I was thinking about freighter volumes of loot though. your primary "loot runner" would be the orca in that case... but yah I guess a handoff would work. Probably don't need an orca for that.

The corp hanger in an orca doesn't drop anything?

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#380 - 2012-07-17 18:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pipa Porto wrote:
Suddenly, BUMP!
Well, yes. Hence the “jump” part — add in an emergency cyno and fuel cost to that 21bn commitment. Blink

Gogela wrote:
Ah... I see how your deal works. I was thinking about freighter volumes of loot though. your primary "loot runner" would be the orca in that case... but yah I guess a handoff would work. Probably don't need an orca for that.

The corp hanger in an orca doesn't drop anything?
No. Nothing in the Orca's special hangars drop on destruction. The other advantage is that the Orca can be largely passive in the whole deal since the thief can access the hangar on his own, which significantly simplifies (and secures) the hand-off: open Orca, open loot can, drag-drop-warp-failbecauseofscrams-die-beer. But yes, it's limited in what you can scoop up with that kind of setup.