EVE General Discussion

0 is not “a lot”.

Such an imbalanced situation could happen with the current mechanics as well.

…which has been there all along — it's not new. Good guys and bad guys have existed ever since aggression and criminal flagging was introduced back in the early Triassic era.

…which should be easy to avoid and still exploit the system.

And you don't think that co-ordinated fleets of suspects won't be easy to avoid?

You'll likely end up with groups who consider themselves suspects or vigilantes that roam around unflagged - under the radar if you will - and jump on people.

The same thing is going to happen without a two-flag system. People are going to hell-death-camp gates with instalocking tackle, completely unaggressed to any suspects, and only pick off the ones they can deal with.

A two-flag system only provides opportunities for suspects to fight back.

Considering standing loss consequences for certain actions leading to not being welcome in certain areas of space I'd say that yes, there is and has for some time been a concept of "good" and "bad" in the game.

So far if I understood everything all the change does is remove content:

Stealing from a can for whatever reason will be nearly gone. Why? If you steal victim will call whole local for help unless it's stupid, victim will never engage which is the reason to do this(ex no more baiting miners & missioners, it would be suicide without profit).
The second reason is to steal for the items worth which will be much riskier than before because everyone will be able to shoot you(ex. less stealing from suiciders or fights).
The third is consentual pvp(1v1 cans) as you see it mostly at hubs (ex. mostly done for 1vs1s in highsec aswell as smaller more balanced fights which you can hardly find in low and null).

All of the above have currently good potential to escalate, this can be exciting for both sides (ex. Corpmates spanking ass, Logis join the fun etc.)

I have not seen the whole plan but the proposed changes seem to me to drastically reduce all of these activities. It seems to me that this is the wanted effect of the changes? Why? I get that for the code and servers efficiency and modifiability the current individual flag system needs to go and be replaced by something simple. But why target valid parts of the sandbox with such an overkill change? Why not try to preserve parts of EVEs holy grail: unexpected player interaction, we ultimately call it 'the sandbox'. It shouldn't be CCPs target to reduce sandbox content. And no you won't find these forms of potentially escalating 'carebear pvp' in low or null, its unique to high.

I'm thinking of the 2 trailers which made me join EVE: The Butterfly Effect & Causality.


I admit that because I don't know the big reasoning behind this I may actually not be aware of possible new content or improvements added with these changes. Just please be careful with this one CCP, theres still lots of time to engage constructive talk & draft, no need to rush while you revamp the code.

Seems pretty clear to me I haven't understood at all what's all the fuss going on, but I think I can loose a bunch of griffins to test this out

…and this is surprisingly similar to the current system, where people seem to constantly groan about how the criminals have all the advantages.

Maybe. Maybe not. Again, it's a different dynamic with different balances.

…it's an aggression flag just like the new one: it's your mechanical punishment for doing an illegal act. It's as good or bad under the new system as under the old one.

Really? Wow. Imagine that.
How can flipping will work in CW2.0 is a simple aggression flag.

it won't be any more (or less) “good” or “bad” than the current aggression flag is. It will still be a criminal act that is being punished. There is no additional “morality” compared to the old system since it's the exact same thing: crime → flag. “Bad act” → hunted by “good guys”.

Theft has been a bad thing since roughly forever. That's why it has triggered a criminal flag for an equally long time.

No it hasn't been a bad thing, and it didn't have a flag at first. Only after players complained that people could steal from them and there was nothing they could do that it was implemented.

There is a new morality added that is saying you will be at a bigger disadvantage than another player if you steal. This judgment isn't present now.

Oh really.