EVE General Discussion

How about you two just fight it out and leave me out of it?

They've indicated that it will no longer automatically work on people who aren't familiar with the mechanics. Rest assured, though: enough people will be stupid enough to ignore those warnings and let themselves get blow up.

It may be trickier to pull off against the unknowing, but the results of doing it successfully will be all that more spectacular, and it's not like the method is being removed.

Then it's not really a canflip, now is it? It's just plain old theft and itchy trigger fingers.

…and anyway, the safeties will help against that too afair.

One major concern I have with the suspect system is you're removing a major incentive toward corporate membership. If I'm running a mining operation using jetcans and someone comes along and canflips me today, any defensive action taken has to be by my own corp. With your new system, every member of my fleet can be in an NPC corp and we can all engage the thief. The last thing Eve needs is to make NPC corps more attractive.

So, I'm a suspect. Someone shoots me. I can shoot them. Someone assists them. Their neutral RR now becomes a suspect. I can shoot them, but so can the rest of EVE?

You said that the suspect flag should be a punishment for doing something bad. I don't see using a logistics ship to help someone fighting crime to be a criminal act.

You truly need two flags, where players of each flag can shoot one another, rather than flagging everyone as a suspect so all of EVE can shoot them.

If you shoot a suspect, every other suspect should be allowed to shoot you. If I engage a Vigilante on a gate, every other vigilante and his RR should be able to engage me without some of them becoming suspects also.

Suspects will always have the disadvantage, because vigilantes must start the fight and can carefully tailor the engagement in such a way that they will be more successful. A suspect will never know who is about to flag as a vigilante on them prior to it happening. It could be like 10 guys sitting on the gate with you that suddenly turn -insert vigilante overview color- and zonk you. But as soon as they reveal themselves and get that first kill, other suspects in the area that I alert via an intel channel or what have you are going to turn up, and there's going to be a fight.

Unfortunately it doesn't look like we'll get a vigilante/suspect system. We're going to get a suspect/neutrals-who-attack-risk-free system. It'll be 50 cops punching a single robber while all of the other robbers stand right next to him and can't do anything until the cops throw punches at them.

Edit: CCP Greyscale, you want suspects to be at risk for their crimes. Anyone who decides they want to be a white-knight and FIGHT CRIME AND EVIL in high-sec should run the risk of ACTUALLY FACING CRIMINALS, not just the one little Rifter they decide to volley with their instalocking Tornado on a gate. Having a system where you can shoot one suspect, but no other suspects can shoot you back is ridiculous.

"In for a penny, in for a pound", not "In for a penny, collect loot and be completely safe"

Thinking this through and reading some more of the thread, I'm not sure the changes to can aggression and safeties is going to have CCP's desired effect.

First, the safety system. Right now, everyone has a safety. If you try to steal from a can, it tells you exactly what you're risking. You can choose to take from the can or abort. This warning would be triggered each time you try this, unless you actively disable it. However as I understand the proposed system, you'd simply fail to take from the can UNLESS you go in and globally disable the safety, at which point you take on suspect aggression without any further warning.

How, pray tell, is this protecting new users? All they want is to get their ore back and make a run for it, and they've opened themselves up to the potential for future suspect flags without warning! What's more, they ALREADY have a safety in place, telling them that taking from the can invites aggression.

Second, it will be quite easy to abuse less informed players who WILL try to get their stuff back. I've already thought up a couple of clever stunts that I'll try if this proposed system goes into place. There should be a glaringly obvious problem with this that CCP appears to be overlooking.

The chilling effect on vigilantes would be almost instant. Say my crew puts out a can at a sniping location. I go suspect in a tanky ship and sit on a gate with our snipers just off grid and aligned to the can. When someone does finally engage me and gets the vigilante tag, those snipers can warp in, loot from the can, and start shooting any vigilante on the field immediately. If anything, it's the reverse of what you described: we'd have the ability to choose whether or not we go suspect, while the vigilante engaged one guy and suddenly found that he has 15 hostiles on grid. That's on par with joining an at-war corp while in space...which is against the rules for the very reason described above.

I do agree, though, that the system as we currently understand it is stupidly one-sided.

I remember in a blog or fanfest presentation mention of a "dueling" system. Any word of that? Is it real?, How will it work? Will it be just for single players? Fleets? 3 way matches?

Can we stream them to view-screens in establishments and have players bet on the results?

just to make sure i understood the proposed new system correctly

- the new system will completly get rid of ANY graph structure in the agression mechanics.
- this means that a suspect is basically a temporary outlaw -> free for all
- a suspect is viral, if you help a suspect you become a suspect
- edit: shooting suspects is completly fine, you don't become a suspect
- a suspect can still dock and jump since its still independent from agression timers

is that correct so far?

Not if they are waiting for a fleet op to start four regions away.