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Killing Miners - Now I get it
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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-07-13 20:13:37 UTC
nice vid and nice assessment of "amateur Eve Online Players" (i mean high-sec gankers)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Pipa Porto
#42 - 2012-07-13 20:18:13 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ganking Miners is Fun. Like popping bubble-wrap. Popping bubble wrap isn't challenging, but it sure is fun.


This in a nutshell.

Ranger 1 wrote:
The point is that some EVE players are so bad that even a 7 year old can out play them. Blink


I'm not sure exactly how people claim this shows that miners are less capable than a 7 year old. Its a cute spin, but that base of comparison is garbage when you are comparing a non-combat mining vessel to a destroyer. Put them in equivalent ships, then we can compare talent and capability.

Until then I am inclined to agree with the OP that this clearly illustrates how easy it is to suicide-gank a mining ship with a combat ship in empire and how long it takes for Concord to respond.

I mean, there is now way around it, suicide-ganking is easier and cheaper than mining. If you guys do it because it fun, so be it, this is EVE and I ain't gonna hate, but dont try to convince us its a challenging thing to do. Come on.

In then end you are just doing the bidding of market manipulators egging you on and that is interesting and ironic in itself. EVE is awesome.


The only reason Suicide Ganking is profitable and easy is that Miners refuse to counter it. It's really, really easy to counter ganking, make it unprofitable, or even escape from any possible gank.

In EvE, skill includes all things. Goonswarm stomps over most of null because their skill in diplomacy allows them to get allies who will stand by them through thick and thin while their opponents don't bother making strong ties with their allies. Gankers stomp over miners because they prepare for combat, while miners don't bother to tank their ships, relying on the idea that HS is safe (despite all evidence to the contrary).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#43 - 2012-07-13 21:51:59 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

The only reason Suicide Ganking is profitable and easy is that Miners refuse to counter it.


Counter with what - T2 drones and a mining laser. Roll
Come on. You are seriously saying thats the ONLY reason suicide ganking is easy. You completely deny the fact that attacking a mining ship that cannot fight back with a destroyer is not what makes it easy? LOL

Or maybe Engage in a totally screwed criminal flagging system where you can't really protect a friend of yours about to get attacked to pre-empt the situation.

Maybe you mean engage in a totally screwed WarDec system? They tried that and the response was to increase costs exponentially for ally help because they started whining about the war that was brought on them.

Yeah - that cards not not staked on gankers sides by any means.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#44 - 2012-07-13 22:10:36 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

The only reason Suicide Ganking is profitable and easy is that Miners refuse to counter it.


Counter with what - T2 drones and a mining laser. Roll
Come on. You are seriously saying thats the ONLY reason suicide ganking is easy. You completely deny the fact that attacking a mining ship that cannot fight back with a destroyer is not what makes it easy? LOL

Or maybe Engage in a totally screwed criminal flagging system where you can't really protect a friend of yours about to get attacked to pre-empt the situation.

Maybe you mean engage in a totally screwed WarDec system? They tried that and the response was to increase costs exponentially for ally help because they started whining about the war that was brought on them.

Yeah - that cards not not staked on gankers sides by any means.


Do we really need to explain AGAIN the several elementary steps that miner could have taken to keep that gank from happening?

Are you folks really that slow on the uptake? Or just that bad at EVE?

Had the roles been reversed, and that 7 year old been in the mining vessel, that gank would never have happened. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pipa Porto
#45 - 2012-07-13 23:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
BoBoZoBo wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

The only reason Suicide Ganking is profitable and easy is that Miners refuse to counter it.


Counter with what - T2 drones and a mining laser. Roll
Come on. You are seriously saying thats the ONLY reason suicide ganking is easy. You completely deny the fact that attacking a mining ship that cannot fight back with a destroyer is not what makes it easy? LOL

Or maybe Engage in a totally screwed criminal flagging system where you can't really protect a friend of yours about to get attacked to pre-empt the situation.

Maybe you mean engage in a totally screwed WarDec system? They tried that and the response was to increase costs exponentially for ally help because they started whining about the war that was brought on them.

Yeah - that cards not not staked on gankers sides by any means.


You forgot to mention the IWIN button that you have, and ECM Drones.
List all your assets in a fight.

T2 Drones, ECM Drones, a Mining Laser, and an "IWIN" Button that activates after 20s (or Less, Scordite is availible in 1.0 space).

Tank your Hulk and you can survive until CONCORD arrives.
Tank your Hulk and you can have a friend in a Tornado (or Mael, or really anything, gank Cats are fragile) popping Catalysts as soon as they go GCC.
Keep your Hulk aligned to a station or POS and you can warp out as the gankers land on grid.
Keep your Hulk aligned to a POS or Safespot with webs spidering to other Hulks, and you can do the above without the hassle of targeting new roids (it takes a long time to move out of Strip range at 7m/s).

A properly Tanked Hulk Cannot be killed by any Profitable gank (at most, in a .5 system, a team of 6-8 gankers plus 2 support ships can make 500k ISK off of a Solo tanked Hulk. That turns negative as soon as there is any whiff of a leadership bonus or the Victim has ECM drones).
An intelligently flown Hulk Cannot be killed by any gank at all.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Rain King
Playing Alone Sucks
#46 - 2012-07-14 05:02:27 UTC
Jeff Latro wrote:
So, basically, a miner is killed by a 7 year old?
That's not exactly good either...

But yes, what Lady said above. The skills/market/isk etc was done by someone else.


Thus, the miner was not killed by a 7 year old child. Anybody can hobble a deer, and then hand the rifle to a child and tell them to finish it. However, nobody appreciates the fact that when children start playing a game, it has probably ceased being what everyone loved about it and started to become...easy. Coached or not, when children start playing a game that has long been touted as a thinking man's game, a game for adults, well...you know. CoD and all.

Eve was deep, Eve did have a learning curve, but the past year or two has been nothing but one big cry of "Moar easy mode!" from both contingents. Both sides accuse the other of lacking in mental acumen, both look down your nose at one another. Well, there's a really old saying that applies very well in this long, tired, childish argument.

It's times like these that I miss the cries from players about learning skills and ninja salvagers. At least those were halfway interesting fights now and then.
Gorinia Sanford
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2012-07-14 05:14:47 UTC
NullGain wrote:
This video from another post says it all.

Ganking Miners - So easy a 7-year-old can do it, (while being coached)

So this is what is considered a challenge in EVE these days. This is why people log in? To do something a 7 year old can do having never done it before! And they say Carebears aren't playing the game and EVE has a high learning curve

Forget all those cool videos about building empires, building ships... save yourselves time and money and just show this video for promo from now on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Pathetic


Well, what can you say about people that try to force others to play how they think others need to play? They're you're typical behavior control types. And you're right, that kind of individual is pathetic.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#48 - 2012-07-14 05:15:48 UTC
Rain King wrote:
Thus, the miner was not killed by a 7 year old child. Anybody can hobble a deer, and then hand the rifle to a child and tell them to finish it.

Hulk hobbled itself with no tank and being afk?

Hm... so it's closer to him self-destructing, just that there was a probabilistic timer of when the ganker arrives and he goes kaboom.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pipa Porto
#49 - 2012-07-14 05:16:27 UTC
Rain King wrote:
Thus, the miner was not killed by a 7 year old child. Anybody can hobble a deer, and then hand the rifle to a child and tell them to finish it.


It helps when the Deer ties its own legs together.


As for the rest of your argument, a child being able to Hunt while guided by their father does not make hunting any less of a thinking man's sport. Similarly, a child being able to play while guided by their father does not make EvE any less of a thinking man's game.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-07-14 06:04:42 UTC
That was so awesome!

"Locking Target"
"Engaging weapons"
"Target down! WOO"
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#51 - 2012-07-14 07:07:54 UTC
NullGain wrote:
Mad words

Show me on the doll where gankers touched you.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2012-07-14 09:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Pipa Porto wrote:
As for the rest of your argument, a child being able to Hunt while guided by their father does not make hunting any less of a thinking man's sport. Similarly, a child being able to play while guided by their father does not make EvE any less of a thinking man's game.

Lol
yea for sure.... it's like anyone can drive F1 car when somebody guides him: now, press left pedal, now press right pedal, turn the car left....

Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Pipa Porto
#53 - 2012-07-14 10:20:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
March rabbit wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
As for the rest of your argument, a child being able to Hunt while guided by their father does not make hunting any less of a thinking man's sport. Similarly, a child being able to play while guided by their father does not make EvE any less of a thinking man's game.

Lol
yea for sure.... it's like anyone can drive F1 car when somebody guides him: now, press left pedal, now press right pedal, turn the car left....

Shocked


Did I say F1 racing? No. I said "Hunting."

Last time I checked, I don't go Hunting from the back of a million dollar car going around a track at a buck fifty.






(although...)

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
WonkySplitDemon
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-07-14 10:28:25 UTC
confirming that suicide ganking miners can be fun
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#55 - 2012-07-14 10:40:48 UTC
I've been on comms with a 11 year old flying a guardian in a 40 man fleet while his father was in a bs, so Blink don't underestimate all those kids.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-07-14 10:41:41 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
As for the rest of your argument, a child being able to Hunt while guided by their father does not make hunting any less of a thinking man's sport. Similarly, a child being able to play while guided by their father does not make EvE any less of a thinking man's game.

Lol
yea for sure.... it's like anyone can drive F1 car when somebody guides him: now, press left pedal, now press right pedal, turn the car left....

Shocked


Did I say F1 racing? No. I said "Hunting."

Last time I checked, I don't go Hunting from the back of a million dollar car going around a track at a buck fifty.

well. last time i checked hunting includes using gun (rifle or something). And i'm pretty sure to use it you have to be trained at least. It's not like you can simply take it and start to shoot well.

And this is the difference between real hunters and Eve Online "elite hunters" Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Pipa Porto
#57 - 2012-07-14 11:10:09 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

well. last time i checked hunting includes using gun (rifle or something). And i'm pretty sure to use it you have to be trained at least. It's not like you can simply take it and start to shoot well.

And this is the difference between real hunters and Eve Online "elite hunters" Cool


I have seen 7 year old shoot a rifle and hit a target. The rest of hunting is prep work that can (and pretty much has to) be done by the adult, just like the adult did all the prep work for the OP Video.

As for shooting skill, sure, it doesn't take skill to press F1, but that's beside the point. The thing that makes EvE and Hunting thinking man's activities is the work that goes into preparing for that shot. The shot/gank is mechanical, and doesn't require any significant thought. The preparation is what requires the thought.

The guy I was replying to was complaining that the video was evidence of EvE being dumbed down. Since the video didn't show any of the preparatory work (the part that isn't a simple mechanical skill), the video is not evidence of anything of the sort.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-07-14 13:28:21 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

As for shooting skill, sure, it doesn't take skill to press F1, but that's beside the point. The thing that makes EvE and Hunting thinking man's activities is the work that goes into preparing for that shot. The shot/gank is mechanical, and doesn't require any significant thought. The preparation is what requires the thought.

sure.
fitting catalyst by fits from internet needs lots of thinking man activities
warping to belt (where the f... is it again??? Shocked) needs lots of ....

Pipa Porto wrote:

The guy I was replying to was complaining that the video was evidence of EvE being dumbed down.

problem is: he is right. ganking is simple too easy. And CCP does lots of work towards making it more easy and simple.

Pipa Porto wrote:

Since the video didn't show any of the preparatory work (the part that isn't a simple mechanical skill), the video is not evidence of anything of the sort.

well. maybe you are right here and buying ship/modules + fitting it by pictures from internet is real complex task.... Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#59 - 2012-07-14 13:59:30 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
OP is wrong. It's much more complicated. To gank a miner you have to queue skills for like a week, earn few millions to equip destroyer by finishing simple starter quest arc, watch couple of videos.

7 y.o. child can't do that. Only 10 years old.


Blah next week the dad is going to post a vid of the 7 year old's 5 year old sister mining the moon goo which bought the gank ship & prove the mental age of Goons' typical Hulkageddon ganker Blink
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#60 - 2012-07-14 14:25:29 UTC
They are AFK on top of it!!!

So you are telling me that... not only are you shooting a non-combat ship... but a non-combat ship with no pilot?

Kind of like when I shoot abandoned ships in space on the test server?Cool

I completely agree they really could probably do something about the gank, but you still haven't explained how shooting a industrial ship (with no pilot apparently) is challenging.

But it's cool, this is EVE, all levels welcome.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite