These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP please reduce GANKING!

Author
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#41 - 2012-07-11 16:46:52 UTC
Nayl Mkoll wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:
So, if CONCORD is sitting on top of your ship as you mine, and the gank-squad shows up...and they really want you dead...what is CONCORD going to do? Pre-emptively blow them up when no crime has yet been committed? Or once again wait for them to shoot you first. And what then stops them from bringing a swarm of people in to simply alpha your hull into dust? They wait to lock until everyone's in position, insta-lock through sensor-boosters and hit the weapon-groupings all at once.

You get ganked in ungankable space.


That would at least require more than a single ship with no planning at all. It would encourage teamwork! You again prove my point about not being able to warp away in time due to Insta-lock. All this, just pay attention and warp away is hogswollap.



Why dont you learn teamwork and mine in groups with protection so you dont get ganked. eve is a community sandbox game. get friends and stop crying. stop relating concord to real life police. learn the game mechanics and how to play in them dont demand the game change to cater to your needs cause your to soft to grow a pair.


Why dont those solo gankers learn teamwork.
Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-07-11 16:50:01 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Nayl Mkoll wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:
So, if CONCORD is sitting on top of your ship as you mine, and the gank-squad shows up...and they really want you dead...what is CONCORD going to do? Pre-emptively blow them up when no crime has yet been committed? Or once again wait for them to shoot you first. And what then stops them from bringing a swarm of people in to simply alpha your hull into dust? They wait to lock until everyone's in position, insta-lock through sensor-boosters and hit the weapon-groupings all at once.

You get ganked in ungankable space.


That would at least require more than a single ship with no planning at all. It would encourage teamwork! You again prove my point about not being able to warp away in time due to Insta-lock. All this, just pay attention and warp away is hogswollap.



Why dont you learn teamwork and mine in groups with protection so you dont get ganked. eve is a community sandbox game. get friends and stop crying. stop relating concord to real life police. learn the game mechanics and how to play in them dont demand the game change to cater to your needs cause your to soft to grow a pair.


Why dont those solo gankers learn teamwork.



Because those solo afk miners refuse to learn to use the provided mechanics to necessitate needing more than one ganker.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#43 - 2012-07-11 16:50:36 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Nayl Mkoll wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
CorInaXeraL wrote:
So, if CONCORD is sitting on top of your ship as you mine, and the gank-squad shows up...and they really want you dead...what is CONCORD going to do? Pre-emptively blow them up when no crime has yet been committed? Or once again wait for them to shoot you first. And what then stops them from bringing a swarm of people in to simply alpha your hull into dust? They wait to lock until everyone's in position, insta-lock through sensor-boosters and hit the weapon-groupings all at once.

You get ganked in ungankable space.


That would at least require more than a single ship with no planning at all. It would encourage teamwork! You again prove my point about not being able to warp away in time due to Insta-lock. All this, just pay attention and warp away is hogswollap.



Why dont you learn teamwork and mine in groups with protection so you dont get ganked. eve is a community sandbox game. get friends and stop crying. stop relating concord to real life police. learn the game mechanics and how to play in them dont demand the game change to cater to your needs cause your to soft to grow a pair.


Why dont those solo gankers learn teamwork.


Because fail miners make using multiple people in a fleet entirely unnecessary.
Nayl Mkoll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-07-11 16:57:08 UTC
because you make way more profit by popping a untanked hulk by your self... add one person and you cut your profit margin in half drop 1 out of 3 stripminers and you've paid for your gankboat.
Betrinna Cantis
#45 - 2012-07-11 17:00:46 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.

"We're not sayin' you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin, You can't carry a gun in TOWN!" Roll

Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares.....

Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#46 - 2012-07-11 17:07:48 UTC
Betrinna Cantis wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.

"We're not sayin' you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin, You can't carry a gun in TOWN!" Roll



Exactly!!! Town is 1.0-0.8 space!

If there wasnt an issue with ganking, my guess would be that CCP would not be wasting recourses to make them more tanky.

Shocked
Nayl Mkoll
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-07-11 17:09:17 UTC
Despite the fact that I hate relating the game to real life and concord to cops, i'll play devils advocate for you....

Lets implement a perentage chance that concord:
A) wont show up till its too late
B) get the wrong address and show up in a different belt.

If concord call volume is too high (ie multiple ganks at once) their response time slows down.

a limit to the number of concord that shows up,

oh and allow the ganker to evade.


Oh if they were like real cops theyd prob be too busy chasing FUI's (flying under influence) and giving you tickets for not registering your hulk or flying without insurance.

See I can haz a tin foil hat tooo
Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2012-07-11 17:15:15 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Betrinna Cantis wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.

"We're not sayin' you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin, You can't carry a gun in TOWN!" Roll



Exactly!!! Town is 1.0-0.8 space!

If there wasnt an issue with ganking, my guess would be that CCP would not be wasting recourses to make them more tanky.

Shocked



*One* hull is getting a tanking boost, and it probably will not be flown much at all anyway as the miners seem to refuse to give up yield.

Again, if you want risk free AFK mining, there are other games, EVE is not one of them. There is risk everywhere, you either learn to mitigate it, or you die. A lot.

CCP Isn't going to change the game because you're too stubborn or too dumb to adapt and play smart.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#49 - 2012-07-11 17:42:36 UTC
Vellen Thoss wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Betrinna Cantis wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.

"We're not sayin' you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin, You can't carry a gun in TOWN!" Roll



Exactly!!! Town is 1.0-0.8 space!

If there wasnt an issue with ganking, my guess would be that CCP would not be wasting recourses to make them more tanky.

Shocked



*One* hull is getting a tanking boost, and it probably will not be flown much at all anyway as the miners seem to refuse to give up yield.

Again, if you want risk free AFK mining, there are other games, EVE is not one of them. There is risk everywhere, you either learn to mitigate it, or you die. A lot.

CCP Isn't going to change the game because you're too stubborn or too dumb to adapt and play smart.


I believe thats what everyone said to the girl that started the thread somewhere about making the barges more tanky. Guess CCP listened then. Who says they wont listen now? I love that CCP cares about its customers!

I met alot of the Dev's and the Sr. Producer in Iceland this Fanfest and they were very approachable and attentive. Even the time I was smashed talking to them. lol.
Sinna Sek
Aurora Dynamics
Northern Coalition.
#50 - 2012-07-11 17:43:24 UTC
I think the essence of the OP's argument is that High Sec ganking creates an environment that is not tenable to new player retention. This is an arguement made so often by so many scrubs that it has become almost unbearable. EVE is not easy to learn how to play. We know this, CCP knows this. Occaisonaly CCP makes changes that dulls the learning curve a bit, but for the most part EVE is a cruel, unforgiving game with complicated mechanics and a sociopathic player base. That does not, a newbie friendly experience, make.

What makes EVE attractive to many players is that it is not WoW.

This has two meanings:

1) It is a sandbox, not a themepark. Players create content, not devs.

2) The game will not hold your hand or read you bedtime stories. Only players can do that. Some will (EVE-Uni for example). Others will give you a reach around.


Besides this, I think CCP has pretty clearly indicated their opinion on this matter. Just look at John Lander's reaction to Burn Jita.

If that doesnt convince you, let CCP serenade you with some music.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-07-11 17:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Vellen Thoss wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Betrinna Cantis wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
You miss my point. I am merely stating that COPS/SECURITY or whatever are there to prevent crimes just as much as arrest the perp of that crime.

I am sure they are not sitting around hoping someone will die so they can then react. Someone pulls out a gun in a mall and a cop is there, he hopefully will not wait until the person shoots a kid. He will warn him, then put him down.

"We're not sayin' you can't carry a gun. We're just sayin, You can't carry a gun in TOWN!" Roll



Exactly!!! Town is 1.0-0.8 space!

If there wasnt an issue with ganking, my guess would be that CCP would not be wasting recourses to make them more tanky.

Shocked



*One* hull is getting a tanking boost, and it probably will not be flown much at all anyway as the miners seem to refuse to give up yield.

Again, if you want risk free AFK mining, there are other games, EVE is not one of them. There is risk everywhere, you either learn to mitigate it, or you die. A lot.

CCP Isn't going to change the game because you're too stubborn or too dumb to adapt and play smart.


I believe thats what everyone said to the girl that started the thread somewhere about making the barges more tanky. Guess CCP listened then. Who says they wont listen now? I love that CCP cares about its customers!

I met alot of the Dev's and the Sr. Producer in Iceland this Fanfest and they were very approachable and attentive. Even the time I was smashed talking to them. lol.


They looked at changing the way mining ships work because it's just a small change in the big scheme of this. Your change would not be considered, as you're proposing to turn the game in to another game. EVE is not supposed to be nice & safe for anyone.

If you want to be 100% safe & protected, I suggest you dock up & stay there.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#52 - 2012-07-11 17:52:48 UTC
Thanks for all your replies.

I am not asking to change the whole game, just to update the security in higher level systems.

All you gankers would have to do is move 2 jumps into a lower sec system. You could then bask in your ganker glory and so on.

More risk, more reward.
Sinna Sek
Aurora Dynamics
Northern Coalition.
#53 - 2012-07-11 17:55:59 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:

I am not asking to change the whole game, just to update the security in higher level systems.


No, just a pretty significant part of it.
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#54 - 2012-07-11 18:01:13 UTC
Sinna Sek wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:

I am not asking to change the whole game, just to update the security in higher level systems.


No, just a pretty significant part of it.



I wonder what the ratio of carebears vs gankers is.

There is plenty of room out there for everyone to play how they wish. Why should someone who does not want to pvp be forced to do so or quit the game.

I like the game immensely.

My actual argument is that if there were safer systems, then there would be more people actually subscribing and staying which equals more money for CCP, a more diverse environment for players, more competition on the market, more folks buying ships, mining and all that jazz.

Everyone wins!
Osirus Bayne
Sunrise Donkey
#55 - 2012-07-11 18:04:02 UTC
Sinna Sek wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:

I am not asking to change the whole game, just to update the security in higher level systems.


No, just a pretty significant part of it.



U know i was told that it was safer in Null sec than in high sec when mining with a Hulk. I dont know how true that is, but if it is the case then it just fortifies my point that the Sec system may need a look see by the EVE Gods.
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
RAZOR Alliance
#56 - 2012-07-11 18:06:30 UTC
Get rid of alts. It's silly that people can hide behind them and recycle them to avoid the standings hits. If you do this, I think most people can live with suicide ganking.

No good deed goes unpunished

Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-07-11 18:24:35 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
Sinna Sek wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:

I am not asking to change the whole game, just to update the security in higher level systems.


No, just a pretty significant part of it.



U know i was told that it was safer in Null sec than in high sec when mining with a Hulk. I dont know how true that is, but if it is the case then it just fortifies my point that the Sec system may need a look see by the EVE Gods.



This claim has been stated because of the lack of population in a lot of nullsec systems. Not because of any inherent safety overall.

If there were more people in nullsec, it would still be more dangerous than Empire.

So your point is void.
Sinna Sek
Aurora Dynamics
Northern Coalition.
#58 - 2012-07-11 18:26:15 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:
I wonder what the ratio of carebears vs gankers is.

There is plenty of room out there for everyone to play how they wish. Why should someone who does not want to pvp be forced to do so or quit the game.

I like the game immensely.

My actual argument is that if there were safer systems, then there would be more people actually subscribing and staying which equals more money for CCP, a more diverse environment for players, more competition on the market, more folks buying ships, mining and all that jazz.

Everyone wins!


That may be true, but that is not the game CCP wants to make. You'll hear it over and over from the Devs that every decision should have consequences. That is one of the main design philosophies of EVE, and more recently DUST 514. That decision you made to put 5 bill in an un-tanked hauler and undock? That should have consequences. I think ganking is a good thing not because its fun, but because it teaches the ganked a lesson. If the person getting blown up doesn't learn anything, then they will have a lot of problems with EVE.

Taking a big chunk of highsec and making it nigh impossible to gank in is not good for everyone as it allows carefree stupidity to propagate out of control. It doesnt teach new players how to play EVE and it does not benefit the incredibly risk averse as they are not forced to actually interact with the elements of EVE that make it EVE.

Also, market saturation is not necessarily a good thing. Having some scarcity generates more content. Build->Sell->Build->Sell isnt interesting. That would just be Farmville in space.


Osirus Bayne wrote:
Sinna Sek wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:

I am not asking to change the whole game, just to update the security in higher level systems.


No, just a pretty significant part of it.



U know i was told that it was safer in Null sec than in high sec when mining with a Hulk. I dont know how true that is, but if it is the case then it just fortifies my point that the Sec system may need a look see by the EVE Gods.


It is and it isnt. I think of it like war. Long periods of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror. Its only as safe as how much control you have over your space. If there are lots of roamers around, then it is definitely not safe. If you live in relatively secured space, its much safer. However, the latter tends to be more nerve-wracking. In general, mining in high sec follows similar rules to mining in null.

1) Fit a @#$% tank.

2) Pay attention.
CorInaXeraL
The Dresdeneers
#59 - 2012-07-11 18:28:46 UTC
Osirus Bayne wrote:


I wonder what the ratio of carebears vs gankers is.

There is plenty of room out there for everyone to play how they wish. Why should someone who does not want to pvp be forced to do so or quit the game.


Why should PVPers, gankers, and pirates be locked out of operating in the manner they wish in high-sec systems?

Vellen Thoss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2012-07-11 18:28:57 UTC
Sinna Sek wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:
I wonder what the ratio of carebears vs gankers is.

There is plenty of room out there for everyone to play how they wish. Why should someone who does not want to pvp be forced to do so or quit the game.

I like the game immensely.

My actual argument is that if there were safer systems, then there would be more people actually subscribing and staying which equals more money for CCP, a more diverse environment for players, more competition on the market, more folks buying ships, mining and all that jazz.

Everyone wins!


That may be true, but that is not the game CCP wants to make. You'll hear it over and over from the Devs that every decision should have consequences. That is one of the main design philosophies of EVE, and more recently DUST 514. That decision you made to put 5 bill in an un-tanked hauler and undock? That should have consequences. I think ganking is a good thing not because its fun, but because it teaches the ganked a lesson. If the person getting blown up doesn't learn anything, then they will have a lot of problems with EVE.

Taking a big chunk of highsec and making it nigh impossible to gank in is not good for everyone as it allows carefree stupidity to propagate out of control. It doesnt teach new players how to play EVE and it does not benefit the incredibly risk averse as they are not forced to actually interact with the elements of EVE that make it EVE.

Also, market saturation is not necessarily a good thing. Having some scarcity generates more content. Build->Sell->Build->Sell isnt interesting. That would just be Farmville in space.


Osirus Bayne wrote:
Sinna Sek wrote:
Osirus Bayne wrote:

I am not asking to change the whole game, just to update the security in higher level systems.


No, just a pretty significant part of it.



U know i was told that it was safer in Null sec than in high sec when mining with a Hulk. I dont know how true that is, but if it is the case then it just fortifies my point that the Sec system may need a look see by the EVE Gods.


It is and it isnt. I think of it like war. Long periods of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror. Its only as safe as how much control you have over your space. If there are lots of roamers around, then it is definitely not safe. If you live in relatively secured space, its much safer. However, the latter tends to be more nerve-wracking. In general, mining in high sec follows similar rules to mining in null.

1) Fit a @#$% tank.

2) Pay attention.



You wont get through to him, he doesn't want to have to fit a tank, and he doesn't want to have to learn to watch his overview and always be aligned with a SS/Station.