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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Alliance Tornament X - What a joke

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Matius Toskavich
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-07-11 09:26:48 UTC
As a newbie to EVE, I was excited to see the tornament being advertised. Then got to see some replays. Why the **** bother... Might as well call it Alliance Match Fixing - no skills needed.

Deals in local during the matches, deals made before the matches.. pfft what a waste and CPP should be embarrassed.

Flame on - Care factor 0

Forum Alt = Tick
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2012-07-11 09:47:17 UTC
Claymore
Claymore
Scimi
Harpy
Harpy
Harpy

UUuughh
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2012-07-11 09:54:54 UTC
The dealmaking is part of the package and part of what makes it fun.
The cookie-cutter setups, less so… but then again, it's the preliminaries so it won't be quite as varied as in the matches proper (and afair, they've never shown the preliminaries before so if they don't live up to people's expectations, then it's probably because people were expecting the actual tourney rather than the knock-out round).
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-07-11 09:56:38 UTC
We require more minmatar.
Jack Paladin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-07-11 09:59:23 UTC
I heard Jita has some good deals in local also ^^
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#6 - 2012-07-11 10:02:07 UTC
The shooting is just eyecandy for all the scrubs...the real interesting part of the tournament is the metagaming / spying.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-07-11 10:05:41 UTC
Yes, EVE is all about hono(U)rable combat and e-bushido. It's heartbreaking to see them sullying that good name.
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
#8 - 2012-07-11 10:11:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The dealmaking is part of the package and part of what makes it fun.
The cookie-cutter setups, less so… but then again, it's the preliminaries so it won't be quite as varied as in the matches proper (and afair, they've never shown the preliminaries before so if they don't live up to people's expectations, then it's probably because people were expecting the actual tourney rather than the knock-out round).


Dealmaking dont makes it fun, makes it ********.

This type of tournament should be directed to the skill of the players playing as a group and not for the influence that each corporation / alliance has within the game. Tournament = / = Ingame crap
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#9 - 2012-07-11 10:14:33 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Tippia wrote:
The dealmaking is part of the package and part of what makes it fun.
The cookie-cutter setups, less so… but then again, it's the preliminaries so it won't be quite as varied as in the matches proper (and afair, they've never shown the preliminaries before so if they don't live up to people's expectations, then it's probably because people were expecting the actual tourney rather than the knock-out round).


Dealmaking dont makes it fun, makes it ********.

This type of tournament should be directed to the skill of the players playing as a group and not for the influence that each corporation / alliance has within the game. Tournament = / = Ingame crap


EVE's combat mechanics are not really complex enough for "player skill" to factor in too much. Composition and metagaming (spying, brokering, etc) has a far bigger influence in how a match will turn out. It is the nature of the game, you can't avoid it. EVE is probably the only multiplayer game where all the most interesting events take place entirely outside of it.
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-07-11 10:19:29 UTC
Only part of the Alliance tournament I dont like is the 2x Sleipneir, a Scimitar and 3 Merlins. CHANGE IT UP

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-07-11 10:19:36 UTC
This thread - What a joke

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Matius Toskavich
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-07-11 10:21:10 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Tippia wrote:
The dealmaking is part of the package and part of what makes it fun.
The cookie-cutter setups, less so… but then again, it's the preliminaries so it won't be quite as varied as in the matches proper (and afair, they've never shown the preliminaries before so if they don't live up to people's expectations, then it's probably because people were expecting the actual tourney rather than the knock-out round).


Dealmaking dont makes it fun, makes it ********.

This type of tournament should be directed to the skill of the players playing as a group and not for the influence that each corporation / alliance has within the game. Tournament = / = Ingame crap


EVE's combat mechanics are not really complex enough for "player skill" to factor in too much. Composition and metagaming (spying, brokering, etc) has a far bigger influence in how a match will turn out. It is the nature of the game, you can't avoid it. EVE is probably the only multiplayer game where all the most interesting events take place entirely outside of it.


I have to disagree, why not make it an alliance auction then? If a team does have a turn of "good luck" or good piloting taking advantage of another pilots mistakes... Why make a deal?... I made it through to semi's last year so why don't I pay you 4 bil so I can do it again this year?

However you try to justify it as metagaming, in the end, calling it a tornament is just a farce.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#13 - 2012-07-11 10:25:26 UTC
Matius Toskavich wrote:

I have to disagree, why not make it an alliance auction then? If a team does have a turn of "good luck" or good piloting taking advantage of another pilots mistakes... Why make a deal?... I made it through to semi's last year so why don't I pay you 4 bil so I can do it again this year?

However you try to justify it as metagaming, in the end, calling it a tornament is just a farce.


There is no such thing as a fair fight in EVE.

The mechanics of combat are simplistic - this isn't a game with the mechanical depth of, say, starcraft 2.

The skill ceiling is not very high. Most players in the tournament will be very evenly matched.

Cookie-cutter compositions arise in every game and every sort of tournament. It is not the fault of the players that certain setups are more effective than others. "Changing it up" when ideal compositions have been identified is taking needless risk for little more than entertainment value.

If it makes you feel any better, the 12 man fights will likely have more variety due to the ability to field more ship synergies.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-07-11 10:26:13 UTC
Matius Toskavich wrote:
As a newbie to EVE


Matius Toskavich wrote:
I made it through to semi's last year


So which is it? Are you a newbie, or are you just terrible at this game?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Alain Kinsella
#15 - 2012-07-11 10:26:50 UTC
@ OP - We're apparently seeing different videos, I'm really not seeing much dealmaking (so far) as opposed to past years. Though Tippia has made the important point that the past two weekends weren't normally vidcast.

Some of the matches have been pretty interesting too. Never thought anyone would bring Marauders to a PvP tourney (usually laughed at in Null), but apparently with ASBs and a cap chain it works somehow.

Akirei Scytale wrote:
EVE is probably the only multiplayer game where all the most interesting events take place entirely outside of it.

Nope. Travian, usually during a server instance endgame.

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Matius Toskavich
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-07-11 10:27:05 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Matius Toskavich wrote:
As a newbie to EVE


Matius Toskavich wrote:
I made it through to semi's last year


So which is it? Are you a newbie, or are you just terrible at this game?


newbie... Just using that as an example...
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#17 - 2012-07-11 10:29:53 UTC
Alain Kinsella wrote:
@ OP - We're apparently seeing different videos, I'm really not seeing much dealmaking (so far) as opposed to past years. Though Tippia has made the important point that the past two weekends weren't normally vidcast.

Some of the matches have been pretty interesting too. Never thought anyone would bring Marauders to a PvP tourney (usually laughed at in Null), but apparently with ASBs and a cap chain it works somehow.

Akirei Scytale wrote:
EVE is probably the only multiplayer game where all the most interesting events take place entirely outside of it.

Nope. Travian, usually during a server instance endgame.


The reason marauders are laughed at is extreme vulnerability to EWAR - and in a 6 man tournament, it becomes a coin toss in terms of effectiveness. The 2x Kronos vs 2x Kronos fight had one ECM boat, which was immediately dealt with because its threat was recognized.
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
#18 - 2012-07-11 10:31:15 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
There is no such thing as a fair fight in EVE.


This is a Tournament, not a skirmish in a gate or a blob fest to get a system. I understant your point but that should not apply in this kind of events.

And you make it sound that pvp in eve is the most simple thing and we both know it's not.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-07-11 10:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Dealmaking dont makes it fun, makes it ********.
Dealmaking makes it EVE, and exposes player skills that other tournaments miss… Blink

Also, it doesn't particularly have to do with the “in-game influence” of the alliance, but rather of the dealmaking skills of the tourney participants — slightly different thing.

Quote:
why not make it an alliance auction then?
Because that's a completely different thing as well. It's not a matter of bidding the most — it's a matter of convincing the other guy to lose (or, failing that, of blowing them up).

Quote:
However you try to justify it as metagaming, in the end, calling it a tornament is just a farce.
How so? Metagaming is part of the alliance life — this is an alliance tournament. If it tests more than the ability to cram pilots into ships, how does that take away from the tournament aspect? And it's not like the your average [whatever]-tournament is free of back-room deals and meta-gaming either…
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#20 - 2012-07-11 10:33:38 UTC
Mirime Nolwe wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
There is no such thing as a fair fight in EVE.


This is a Tournament, not a skirmish in a gate or a blob fest to get a system. I understant your point but that should not apply in this kind of events.

And you make it sound that pvp in eve is the most simple thing and we both know it's not.


Compare the mechanics of EVE PvP to a game like Supreme Commander, and then tell me its even remotely complicated.

Once you learn what each ship is capable of, which fits are likely, and how to move in order to give yourself an edge, there isn't much more depth to dig into.
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