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[I-RED] Wiyrkomi Honor Guard - A Success Story
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Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#1 - 2012-07-06 22:50:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Ishuk-Raata Public Release - Wiyrkomi Honor Guard - A Success Story
>> Syndicate Region
>> JQV5-9 Constellation // 98Q-8O Solar system
>> Planet V - Moon 4 - Ishukone Corporation Factory // Field Office of the Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive

The Office of the Executor and Board of Directors, Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive, would like to officially extend congratulations and professional respect to the pilots and leadership of Wiyrkomi Honor Guard.

On the first of many Joint Operations against the pirate elements in Syndicate, the pilots of WHG demonstrated both skill and bravery during the Battle of A-ZLHX. During a skirmish on station with the hostile pirate alliance of Hedonistic Imperative, members of WHG were instrumental in the takedown of a sieged Moros class Dreadnought on station. Through successful defense of the reinforcement cynosural field ship, friendly capitals were able to be called on field to join the fight.

With the pirate dreadnought destroyed, the residents of Syndicate can breathe just a little easier now. However, the fight against crime is an endless one, and I-RED looks forward to the day WHG joins us on the field again.

Well Done, kirjuunen.

You make our ancestors proud. Rikaato.

[I-RED] Director of Public Relations,
Shosho Katrina Oniseki (RDC)

Katrina Oniseki
Hoshisuuvi
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard
#2 - 2012-07-06 23:15:57 UTC
It was an honor.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-07-06 23:16:53 UTC
Eskeitanen Wiyrkomi Kaashivon
Wiyrkomi Honor Guard



It was our honor to fly beside Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive and its leadership, which displayed remarkable awareness, intuition and strategy. While our first joint operation went extremely well, we should not allow ourselves to become overconfident as the fight will continue to be difficult on both of our fronts but through our continued cooperation and diligence, we will see future successes.

Bright stars, clear horizons and a profitable future kirjuunen.

~Malcolm Khross
Kerri Knight
Ishukone Prosperity Exchange
#4 - 2012-07-07 02:57:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kerri Knight
Quite glad to see some competent interest in addressing the lawlessness of that region. May your success on this occasion be just the beginning of a sustained improvement in conditions for those residents. Let's not forget, their predecessors were originally placed there for the "crime" of voicing their opinions. The scathing criticism which earned them their exiles were much the same as those the Caldari made when they seceded, and so it may be oddly appropriate that State-aligned interests now offer their assistance in the area.

Congratulations not only on your victory, but for demonstrating the cooperative spirit amongst each other, despite your affiliation to different Megacorps and ideology, and not least for the benefits, however small, those living in such a harsh environment will experience.

[u]Kerri Knight[/u] Communications Director Ishukone Prosperity Exchange "Cooperation is the greater path than conflict"
Simca Develon
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-07-07 03:03:34 UTC
Hoshisuuvi wrote:
It was an honor.


It was an honor for us also. I look forward to flying with WHG more in the future.

Khross-haan is right we shouldn't become overconfident, but from what Oniseki-haani informed me about what happened after I had to leave, I do believe a well deserved pat on the back is in order.

[I-RED] Vice Executor
Chujo Simca Develon (RDC)

Je suis le commencement de votre fin.

Le diable prend soin de son proper.
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#6 - 2012-07-07 08:26:22 UTC
This is excellent news.

I must congratulate both parties on a successful co-operative mission, this is the very example of how State citizens can cast aside their political differences in the face of common foes. In that regard, I only regret that more NISYN pilots were not present to represent Sukuuvestaa interests during this operation.

It is my hope that this spirit of co-operation will continue to provide a beacon for State loyal capsuleers in the lawless regions, providing a means to bond as countrymen and take on the criminal element blighting Syndicate, Placid and beyond. That Caldari do this hand in hand with Matari, Intaki and even former Gallenteans is tribute to the strength and dedication of the leaders of both I-RED and WHG. It would be an honour to, in the future, count my pilots amongst your endeavours.

Well done to all involved. The spirit of a State united against darkness lives on in you.

Executor Aelisha Montenagre
Nisaba Syndicate CEO
NISYN Inc. Executor

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#7 - 2012-07-07 11:05:05 UTC
I apologise for not being able to make it, but it certainly looks like you met with success. Congratulations.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#8 - 2012-07-07 14:46:26 UTC
Congratulations to I-RED and WHG on the successful operation. You do us all proud.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-07-07 19:50:38 UTC
Nice shootin'. Hopefully these embarassments will start to add up for RELAX...(8 billion there, 2 billion here, and I doubt they have a bottomless wallet to work with).
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2012-07-08 08:41:22 UTC
I do believe the Intaki Syndicate will be the sole arbiters of what constitutes a crime in their home. Best remember that.

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman
Saul Ambrye
Ishukone Prosperity Exchange
#11 - 2012-07-08 11:22:54 UTC
Gorion Wassenar wrote:
I do believe the Intaki Syndicate will be the sole arbiters of what constitutes a crime in their home. Best remember that.


Malum Prohibita and Malum In Se are not always the same thing.

Or, in other words, there's a difference between what is illegal and what is unjust.

Saul Ambrye Executive Director Ishukone Prosperity Exchange "Cooperation is the greater path than conflict"
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#12 - 2012-07-08 13:24:12 UTC
Saul Ambrye wrote:
Malum Prohibita and Malum In Se are not always the same thing.

Or, in other words, there's a difference between what is illegal and what is unjust.


And for good reason. Justice should never stand above the law.
Marrano Cardosa
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#13 - 2012-07-08 22:42:11 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
Saul Ambrye wrote:
Malum Prohibita and Malum In Se are not always the same thing.

Or, in other words, there's a difference between what is illegal and what is unjust.


And for good reason. Justice should never stand above the law.


The otherway around is more correct. Given that Justice is the ideal and the Law is its imperfect implementation.
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#14 - 2012-07-09 19:05:28 UTC
Marrano Cardosa wrote:
The otherway around is more correct. Given that Justice is the ideal and the Law is its imperfect implementation.


Hardly. The law isn't there to kow-tow to justice, which will in any case never be more than a subjective, emotion-driven ideal. It is there to facilitate the smooth operation of society. An ideally objective system through which to address grievances is just one facet of the whole legal structure.

By all means, if you find a law to be unjust, go ahead and campaign or petition to have it changed through whatever legal channels exist to do so. But if you discard the law for the sake of justice, you are nothing more than a vigilante, and vigilantism is equally disruptive to society as any other breach of law - it is a crime like any other. Neither better nor worse.

Not that any of this actually applies to the situation discussed. Last I checked, it was unfortunately perfectly legal for capsuleers to blow each other to pieces as much as they please within the entire region of Syndicate.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#15 - 2012-07-09 20:34:48 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
By all means, if you find a law to be unjust, go ahead and campaign or petition to have it changed through whatever legal channels exist to do so. But if you discard the law for the sake of justice, you are nothing more than a vigilante, and vigilantism is equally disruptive to society as any other breach of law - it is a crime like any other. Neither better nor worse.


You speak as though crime held a special place as a social evil, greater than other faults in a society.

Supposing a man's family was killed by order of a corrupt official (not as common in life as in holo, but not unheard of). This man and his family are of low rank, and the event is common enough that it doesn't draw much attention from higher-ups. The man takes up arms as the classic vigilante avenger.

(I've just outlined the plot of maybe a fifth of all Achur action holos.)

Several social goods may come of this. First, if the avenger tries and fails, especially spectacularly, the sacrifice may draw attention to the problem. Second, if the avenger succeeds and then surrenders to authority, both the importance of duty to family and duty to law are reinforced: even if one duty forces you to commit a crime, society must still render punishment. If the avenger succeeds and then flees, it can be seen that he has become an exiled pariah with no place in that society-- a wounded and pitiable outcast.

All three of these are tragic endings, but you don't expect happily-ever-afters from an avenger story, real or not. In each case, the act of vigilantism reinforces regard for social order instead of undermining it.

Just three examples; there are nearly infinite variations on the theme, of course.



To my comrades: congratulations on your success. I regret that I was not there with you.
Jev North
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-07-09 21:44:57 UTC
Natalcya Katla wrote:
The law isn't there to kow-tow to justice, which will in any case never be more than a subjective, emotion-driven ideal. It is there to facilitate the smooth operation of society. An ideally objective system through which to address grievances is just one facet of the whole legal structure.

"The smooth operation of society" is, in any case, as subjective and vague an ideal as you can get.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Vechtor
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-07-09 22:30:47 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

You speak as though crime held a special place as a social evil, greater than other faults in a society.

That was hard reading... I always thought that a crime was greater than other faults in a society because, by definition... it is a crime!

Aria Jenneth wrote:
All three of these are tragic endings, but you don't expect happily-ever-afters from an avenger story, real or not. In each case, the act of vigilantism reinforces regard for social order instead of undermining it.

This is true when a state has the internal security monopoly, or better said... the monopoly of force.
It is possible, however, to have other kinds of social organization without a single force monopoly, and specially, if society has grown up mature having this differentiation even if not actually making it official. I've seen this before on some planetary societies where people had already rooted in their culture that some acts of vigilantism was indeed desirable, even though it was against the monopoly of the force stated by their own government.

I'm not entirely sure with what regard this discussion relates to what I-RED did against a Dreadnought they classified as making part of a pirate organization. This wasn't an act of vigilantism whatsoever. I don't think I-RED classifies it that way, nor The Syndicate...
Vechtor
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-07-09 22:34:18 UTC
Jev North wrote:
Natalcya Katla wrote:
The law isn't there to kow-tow to justice, which will in any case never be more than a subjective, emotion-driven ideal. It is there to facilitate the smooth operation of society. An ideally objective system through which to address grievances is just one facet of the whole legal structure.

"The smooth operation of society" is, in any case, as subjective and vague an ideal as you can get.

For sure... specially when you take elements like Anshar Incorporated, for example. Last time I saw you, you were undergoing several acts of piracy in Intaki...
Natalcya Katla
Astropolitan Front
#19 - 2012-07-09 22:45:02 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
All three of these are tragic endings, but you don't expect happily-ever-afters from an avenger story, real or not. In each case, the act of vigilantism reinforces regard for social order instead of undermining it.


I don't think it does. I rather think that each new act of vigilantism serves to reinforce the idea within the general populace that "if you want something done, you have to do it yourself". The more people who take matters into their own hands rather than leaving them in the hands of proper authorities, the greater the disruption they will cause.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2012-07-09 22:59:59 UTC
Vechtor wrote:
I always thought that a crime was greater than other faults in a society because, by definition... it is a crime!


It certainly can be. Only, a crime is merely an act that some lawmaking body defines as such-- it need not be against the society's morals. You can come up with plenty of criminal laws that a whole society would delight in breaking. For example, its native language could be outlawed by an invading power. It's not like that hasn't ever happened.

Quote:
It is possible, however, to have other kinds of social organization without a single force monopoly, and specially, if society has grown up mature having this differentiation even if not actually making it official.


The State itself is a bit like that, actually. Lots of competing, ah, monopolies. Even the people themselves have a certain amount of cultural credit this way: the population exerting its will to overturn the "lawful" order is how we ended up with Tibus Heth.

... Mind you, that's not an avenger tale. The megacorporations have always been subject to Caldari law and tradition; when they started ignoring Caldari cultural mores, they lost their authority to rule. An individual going against the law may be acting on a similar basis, but cannot claim to be above society's judgment. However, when the society itself acts, that act IS the society's judgment.

There are the laws on the books, and then there are the laws of the culture.

Quote:
I'm not entirely sure with what regard this discussion relates to what I-RED did against a Dreadnought they classified as making part of a pirate organization. This wasn't an act of vigilantism whatsoever. I don't think I-RED classifies it that way, nor The Syndicate...


It's tangential. But fun. A certain anarchist pointed out that The Syndicate are the only ones who get to say what's a crime in Syndicate space; I gather he was attempting to critique the use of terms like "piracy." The rest kind of flowed from there.

... Actually, I'm kind of encouraged to hear Mr. Wassenar recognizing anybody's sovereign power. I may misunderstand his perspective, or be conflating his views with those of Star Fraction, but I really didn't think he had any respect for governmental authority of any sort.
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