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Summer OTA changes

First post
Author
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2012-07-07 01:06:07 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
This "nerf" to content difficulty is unfounded... ..


I don't see how you can say that unless you can't see the Wall of OTAs that populate the Vanguards 6 sometimes 12 hours before downtime. Look at the Journal for Fólkvangr's sake: Only 1 Incursion is being run anymore. I have high hopes that this will rejuvenate the hi sec incursions.
I'm really hoping too the lo/null sec incursions too will be able to defeat the OTAs I think the current problem currently stems from only super shiney fleets being able do them in a survivable amount of time, and this is mirrored in the fact that they are not being done there because such shiney ships are too much a target(risk) in lo/null.
Its is very founded in looking at how all Incursions have withered from being a vibrant growing community it was the very week before Escalation.



;) you're welcome

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CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2012-07-07 01:06:36 UTC
mkint wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
due late Summer.


???

Does that mean they were changed internally but may not deploy until as late as September?


They have to go through a development cycle like everything else - they will come out with our late summer release

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

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Team Astro Sparkle

Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-07-07 01:29:41 UTC
mkint wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
due late Summer.


???

Does that mean they were changed internally but may not deploy until as late as September?


half of CCP is on vacation right now
Asmodes Reynolds
Rayn Enterprises
#24 - 2012-07-07 03:21:57 UTC
CCP Affinity, why no response to my suggestion is practically the only one you haven't responded to? or is that sort of fixing not in the timeline for this release like last time?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#25 - 2012-07-07 04:20:37 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
mkint wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
due late Summer.


???

Does that mean they were changed internally but may not deploy until as late as September?


half of CCP is on vacation right now


And by half of CCP you mean 95% of CCP is on vacation.

Where I am.

Ruareve
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-07-07 06:53:45 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
that should keep everyone happy

hopefully!


unlikely considering most people hate HS incursions. just saying...

Out of interest, am i understanding it right that in order to fix OTAs, youre making ALL the sites much easier by reducing the rat EHP???
That doesnt seem to make much sense.



I think you should amend your statement to most forum posters hate HS incursions, but when you actually get into the game HS incursions used to be very popular. So popular in fact I used to have a hard time finding a system without a ridiculous amount of competition.



Personally I loved incursions before the nerfs, afterwards I just don't see a reason to go back as the fun and enjoyment just aren't worth the hassle of jumping through hoops. I would have been fine with a reduction to ISK payouts, but changing the basic structure of how the sites performed was a bad idea. Part of the fun of incursions was the challenge, the ability to meet new people not trying to kill me, and to spend a few hours here and there when I didn't have much time to be online.

With the nerf the challenge has changed into frustration and hassle, there aren't that many new people to meet, and the time needed to be successful has all gone up.

I'd rather be bored solo'ing lvl 4's than put up with the travesty that has become incursions. However since missions were so boring after the excitement of incursions what normally happened is I played World of Tanks for a few hours a night instead of logging on to Eve.

Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/

Kodavor
Iz Doge Korp .
#27 - 2012-07-07 07:45:10 UTC
Asmodes Reynolds wrote:
CCP Affinity, why no response to my suggestion is practically the only one you haven't responded to? or is that sort of fixing not in the timeline for this release like last time?



You are off topic . So try again .
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#28 - 2012-07-07 14:14:42 UTC
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
This "nerf" to content difficulty is unfounded... Good fleets are clearing these sites in short time frames, bad fleets are not... Can you please not follow suit with the rest of the gaming industry by trivializing content.... Have some balls and stop listing to the whiners who are just pissed that their old ez mode economy breaking isk printing machine was nerfed within reasonable risk vs reward levels...

Not a valid argument at all. High end, tight-knit communities, flying multi-billion isk ships with near-perfect boosters can do it fast, true enough, but they can still do the other sites even faster. OTAs are a bottleneck at the moment, well out of proportion with the other two sites.



Then wtf is the point of incursions if not to test the best comps and ship setups in eve? Seriously, how the hell is my point not a point at all... All you're doing here is whining to make end game content ez mode for the masses...... You want to run the easier ones then run ncos and nmcs, some difficult content needs to be left in each of the incursions systems...

Furthermore, saying that only tight-knit communities are completing these in reasonable time frames is utter bullshit and makes me believe you have no idea what the hell you are talking about... The ships needed do not have to be multi billion, they just need to be setup correctly and obviously this is and should remain intended... Nerfing them to the point where a scrub fleet can complete them in reasonable time frames is NOT the solution. You want ez mode content? Go run lvl 4s for 40m an hr.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#29 - 2012-07-07 15:26:17 UTC
While i don't mind this watering down of VG sites it would be lovely that assaults and up sites gain some reward changes so they are worth doing.

Whole this fus n whine started with isk printing machine and VG sites being most payed sites..and i don't care much rly il roll more chars to play for free,i still think that players that are willing to put more effort,risk more and have an issue with mindless repetitive action should be rewarded better.

And i can hardly believe that moving things in site/removing and or shifting stuff around is more easy that change few digits in payment...call me mathematical r****d.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#30 - 2012-07-07 16:07:16 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


And i can hardly believe that moving things in site/removing and or shifting stuff around is more easy that change few digits in payment...call me mathematical r****d.


This is absolutely the correct "solution". Instead of making them easier why not just increase payment by a couple mil...

You essentially come to the same end by increasing the isk/hr ratio however you do it w/o trivializing content. Different sites with different difficulties and different payouts is OBVIOUSLY the correct solution. Watering everything down to the point where it's all the same bag of ez mode crap is not.
Kodavor
Iz Doge Korp .
#31 - 2012-07-07 16:36:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kodavor
Quote:
Different sites with different difficulties and different payouts is OBVIOUSLY the correct solution.


Obviously this was the only correct solution . And since this was the only correct solution Mr . Jerick , why did you not make sure that it was made known to CCP and implemented . Now , because you , Jerick Ludhowe , slacked , all of the incursion pilots will have to face the wrong changes which , obviously , are absolutely wrong .
Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-07-08 00:34:38 UTC
i'll be waiting for the fix
4 sites up now and only 1 has any blue in the bar and it's only at 64%.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-07-08 03:41:02 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
that should keep everyone happy


hopefully!

do a complete roll back to what they were before the nerf. that will keep everyone happy for awhile till the changes are made. lol
Placibo son Son
souchons corp
#34 - 2012-07-08 04:23:06 UTC
I might be wrong but has there ever been a blue bar in low sec?
Timbo Severasse
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#35 - 2012-07-08 10:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Timbo Severasse
First of as far as shield tanking (BTL,TVP) is concerned, I cannot weigh in on "where it is at now". As I have only recently came to be part of that community, specifically TVP. In my opinion they're are very knowledgeable and professional. Insuring the safest and most efficient possible site you could hope for in today's New Eden. As close to a HQ blitz fleet you can come WITHOUT being fit specific.

In regards to the way they treat they're pilots, sometimes less is more. The necessity to keep discipline on coms at times is a god send. You must be able to deliver commands quickly and efficiently to your fleet and the logis must be given priority. Lets face it, the random chatter on TS is at times obnoxious and the STFU attitude is welcome. Of course this is just personal prospective.

The ridiculing of FCs is not helpful at all. If you have a better way to do things, step the **** up! If not sit down and make isk the way your told. I can guarantee being an FC myself that the particular way we do things is not unfounded. Meaning we tell you to shoot the niarja first cause we know its potential, what is does where it goes. This is also true with all the other ships on the field. At one point we all said "why is the niarja always first?" if you say different your lying. Experience has in this instance taught us the proper way to do things. As with anything in the world(yes, i do know this is a video game). Learn from what we have to teach and build upon it so you may become a better FC than us.

This game always seems to have a high turnover rate for pilots. The incursion community will educate new pilots on the principles of fitting, and intermediate fleet operations. Allowing one day themselves to take the reins on the respective groups. THIS IS CRUCIAL!

As stated before a lot of pilots use shiner fits post nerf. The thought behind this is surely not anything "necessary" (moar EHP)it is simply because it improves the completion time. Even n00bs should hands down be able to acceptably fit a T1 BS/BC with meta 4 mods. Able to meet the most picky FC's requirements for EHP, resists, and DPS. If not than the pilots need to be politely pointed in the correct direction. At least this should be the attitude of FC's who wish to see our community restored to what it once was.

With regard to the armor side of things. Blitzing VG's seemed to be a staple of the armor community. Its' all I could get into anywere I went(TDF,BAM,Vindis Only Blitz) was 10 man, 2bs 6t3 2oni blitz fleets. Which at the time was cool =} .

The problem came when you took this ability away from the pilots who choose to do this as an acceptable isk/hour occupation. Being an avid TDF member from the get, I can truthfully say that 50-75% of our community was GONE within a week of the patch. Those staying were optimistic that remaining players would be the "die-hard" players we want running in our fleets. Although the is truth to that sentiment, the renaming were few and far between. After the aforementioned abuse at the hands of CCP =] . Most chose to peruse different careers or change teams in a manner of speaking.

The armor community is on the upswing. In no small part in this pilots opinion to the Born-Ara Mob. This exclusive sect of TDF FCs has always been willing to invite novice pilots who may need some work with their incursioning. New pilots are given a place to grow, learning the ropes of VGs and Assults. If they choose, learning to become FCs themselves.

The negative outlook on the armor community as a whole by other pilots is outrageous. The FCs in TDF and BAM are just as experienced and willing to start fleets as the shield FCs. The problem is the lack of able body's. Personally id like to be able to run armor tanked HQ fleets 24/7 the way TVP is able. The numbers just aren't there, the current dedicated FCs are having trouble keeping Assault fleets running much longer than a few hours. TDF as a whole community needs to get off its ass and motivate pilots new and old to get involved.

However a middle ground seems to be achieved between shield and armor pilots. Working together to keep the influence down is an amazing idea. Shield fleets run their HQs and take big bites out of the bar, armor runs their VGs helping keep it up along the way. It is a balance, symbiont if you will. One day going head to head, contesting MOMs on occasion will be a reality once more. Until then it is in the best interest of all to work together as a community.

As shields, armor, TVP, TDF, or however else you can divide us. We must all come together to build OUR community to what it once was. By showing willing pilots the ropes in our corner of the universe, and by asserting the fact that we are not the bottom feeders of New Eden we are made out to be. After all, at least were not goons. =]
Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2012-07-08 10:43:11 UTC
Thanks for the update.

In the last year and a half we've gotten these expansions:

  • Incursion - virtually 100% rolled back at present
  • Incarna - essentially zero gameplay features
  • Crucible - lots of little fixes much appreciated
  • Inferno - drone alloy nerf, mission loot nerf... not much else

Well look at that! :18months:

The Flying In Space features in Crucible were most welcome, no doubt about that. But aside from that, we really haven't gotten too much in the last couple of years. CCP seems to have a lot of "long term plans" for stuff. Incursions, Ring Mining, POS revamp, nullsec improvements, Crimewatch system, sov mechanics, Technetium rebalance, supercap rebalance. etc. ad infinitum. I really hope you guys hire some more devs and get cracking on that backlog. NONE of those things require huge new expansions of content, just a lot of thought, re-design and implementation. Team Big Things had better make an appearance soon because the snail's pace of development is putting a lot of us to sleep. You honestly can't afford another :18months: fiasco at this point.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#37 - 2012-07-08 10:43:19 UTC
Placibo son Son wrote:
I might be wrong but has there ever been a blue bar in low sec?


Yes all the time. I remeber early to mid last year when the first Revenant BPC finally was dropped & Villy was crowing about it in fleets after so many time other crappy BPCs had flushed out of the lo sec space turd Blink
Lo sec Incursions before the nerf nearly always had partial blue bars right up until Escalation. I think after Escalation the furthest I saw the blue bar drop was to ~75% in my Journal in the MOST northeastern top of Intrepid crossing in null
A week ago I did see& goto a lo sec incursion in lo that dropped to ~95% red but from what I saw the Wall of OTAs prevented its further dropping. Didn't join the fleets there due to not knowing them but they said it was pretty quiet.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Jerick Ludhowe
Internet Tuff Guys
#38 - 2012-07-08 20:50:21 UTC
Kodavor wrote:
Quote:
Different sites with different difficulties and different payouts is OBVIOUSLY the correct solution.


Obviously this was the only correct solution . And since this was the only correct solution Mr . Jerick , why did you not make sure that it was made known to CCP and implemented . Now , because you , Jerick Ludhowe , slacked , all of the incursion pilots will have to face the wrong changes which , obviously , are absolutely wrong .


I can't always be around to hold developer's handsCool Glad we agree on the rest thoRoll
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
#39 - 2012-07-08 22:09:54 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Placibo son Son wrote:
I might be wrong but has there ever been a blue bar in low sec?


Yes all the time. I remeber early to mid last year when the first Revenant BPC finally was dropped & Villy was crowing about it in fleets after so many time other crappy BPCs had flushed out of the lo sec space turd Blink
Lo sec Incursions before the nerf nearly always had partial blue bars right up until Escalation. I think after Escalation the furthest I saw the blue bar drop was to ~75% in my Journal in the MOST northeastern top of Intrepid crossing in null
A week ago I did see& goto a lo sec incursion in lo that dropped to ~95% red but from what I saw the Wall of OTAs prevented its further dropping. Didn't join the fleets there due to not knowing them but they said it was pretty quiet.

why are you still here??

I thought you already unsub??
Lumi Leena
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-07-09 04:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lumi Leena
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
You want to run the easier ones then run ncos and nmcs, some difficult content needs to be left in each of the incursions systems...

The problem is that people show up right after downtime, do all the NCOs and NMCs, and by the time everyone else arrives there are only OTAs left to do, because nobody wants to do them. They're a lot more difficult than the other sites and have *smaller* reward due to taking longer to do but paying the same.