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Opening a new exit/entrance
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Barrak
The Painted Ones
#1 - 2012-07-05 13:23:56 UTC
Hi,

I am slowly reading up on as much WH stuff as I can and have been listening to some recordings via the EvE Uni page, however it has prompted a question to which I need a definitive answer.

I understand the impact of opening a new exit, thus entrance on the other side to your own space, but I am confused as to when this happens:

Does the new exit/entrance come to life when it's:
A) scanned 100%
B) Actually used

I thought, in order for someone else to see an entrance into new space the exit would have to be used by myself, however one of the recordings I am listening too says that all I need do is to scan it for it to come to life.

If it simply needs scanning, what factors would I need to take into account and are there any clues, before it gets too 100%, that it could be a new entrance into our space?

I hope I have understood the basics enough to post this question correctly.

Regards

Barrak
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-07-05 13:26:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
the K162 on the other side appears as soon as you initiate warp on your side. there is no way of knowing if anyone else already opened your static unless you're 100% sure that you are alone in your system.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#3 - 2012-07-05 13:36:03 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
there is no way of knowing if anyone else already opened your static unless you're 100% sure that you are alone in your system.


And this is where wormhole life teaches you to never assume you are alone lol

No trolling please
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#4 - 2012-07-05 13:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
there is no way of knowing if anyone else already opened your static unless you're 100% sure that you are alone in your system.


And this is where wormhole life teaches you to never assume you are alone lol


Exactly. Even if you've gone a month without opening a wormhole and have never seen another ship, you're not safe. It doesn't take long to open a new hole, survey a system and decide it would make a good target in the future Then you just drop in a scanning alt, close the hole, and unless they saw the K162 come and go in those few minutes they'll have no idea anything has changed.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-07-05 16:24:11 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
the K162 on the other side appears as soon as you initiate warp on your side. there is no way of knowing if anyone else already opened your static unless you're 100% sure that you are alone in your system.


you can never bee 100% sure though. and as for safety, you can always get incomming k162 at any given moment for a surprise buttseks party
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-07-05 19:44:57 UTC
Yeah like these guys have said you have no way of knowing if somebody else hasn't come through your system. Even with no extra wormholes in systems, a 16 hour wormhole could have popped or somebody could have come through your system, scanned an exit, collapsed their connection to your system, and then used your exit to get out.

In my experience, if you're the first person to warp to the wormhole it says "longer than a day" for about 1 minute after you first warp to it.

That being said, if you're online when your old static goes down, you can scan down your wormholes and know with 100% certainty that the new one has not been found.

Timer initiates on WARP (regardless of arrival). We frequently "carry" our C4 connection until later in the evening when we have people, to keep it healthy.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#7 - 2012-07-06 07:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrak
Thanks for all the replies to far chaps/ettes.


Svodola Darkfury wrote:
That being said, if you're online when your old static goes down, you can scan down your wormholes and know with 100% certainty that the new one has not been found.


In relation to this comment. I am almost certainly confusing myself here, but here goes....... I thought you couldn't scan down an exit unless someone else has scanned and used the other side before?

This also poses another question for me, related to my first question. If if create a wormhole by scanning it down but do not use it, I assume I am creating the entire wormhole.... ie both sides? Thus if I scan one down it will appear in my system and that of my new neighbors?

Regards

Barrak

ps.

If I have confused myself above, some clarity would be greatly appreciated.
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-07-06 08:26:08 UTC
Barrak wrote:
Thanks for all the replies to far chaps/ettes.


Svodola Darkfury wrote:
That being said, if you're online when your old static goes down, you can scan down your wormholes and know with 100% certainty that the new one has not been found.


In relation to this comment. I am almost certainly confusing myself here, but here goes....... I thought you couldn't scan down an exit unless someone else has scanned and used the other side before?

This also poses another question for me, related to my first question. If if create a wormhole by scanning it down but do not use it, I assume I am creating the entire wormhole.... ie both sides? Thus if I scan one down it will appear in my system and that of my new neighbors?

Regards

Barrak

ps.

If I have confused myself above, some clarity would be greatly appreciated.


You have over complicated this for yourself.


You scan down the WH and BM it. It is there but not activated on both sides.

You then initiate a warp to it, at that moment it creates both sides.

What the poster meant was once your static WH pops you control when it opens, until you get visitors from inside. And you have to be aware that while you have been sleeping you may have had visitors from K162's that have used your static and then closed there hole so you may not know they have used it but it has been activated for you.
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#9 - 2012-07-06 08:50:45 UTC
thanks for the explanation.

So what's all this stuff I have read about not being able to scan a wormhole unless the other side has been scanned/used first?

Is that true?

Regards
Masikari
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-07-06 09:03:17 UTC
Barrak wrote:
thanks for the explanation.

So what's all this stuff I have read about not being able to scan a wormhole unless the other side has been scanned/used first?

Is that true?

Regards


A K162 WH does not exist in your WH (therefore cannot be scanned) until the other party has scanned and warped to a particular WH on their side. Once they've warped to their outgoing WH, it will only then (potentially) spawn a scannable WH in your system.
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-07-06 09:05:09 UTC
Barrak wrote:
thanks for the explanation.

So what's all this stuff I have read about not being able to scan a wormhole unless the other side has been scanned/used first?

Is that true?

Regards


Well imagine i am in my WH smashing sites, i have not spawned my HS for a little extra safety as i watched it die i know its now no longer active.

This means from HS,LS or Null that you cannot scan down and find that entry to my WH until i initiate a warp to my static.

I can however get nasty bad men come in from other ways to touch me in bad places.
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#12 - 2012-07-06 09:13:26 UTC
hmm....

Everything was clearer before I started asking questions Ugh

Don't the last two responses contradict eachother a little?

One says (my interpretation) that I can not find the WH until someone uses the other side to enter my space. The other says that people the other side can't find the WH until I scan and use it.

I think there may be a piece of the puzzle that I am missing. Does it make a difference in teh scenarios I am describing if we are talking about a K162 (which I understood to be an exit to known space null/low/high) or if we are talking about a WH that leads to WHspace?

Regards

ps. thanks for your patience.
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-07-06 09:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: joes Bazooka
Barrak wrote:
hmm....

Everything was clearer before I started asking questions Ugh

Don't the last two responses contradict eachother a little?

One says (my interpretation) that I can not find the WH until someone uses the other side to enter my space. The other says that people the other side can't find the WH until I scan and use it.

I think there may be a piece of the puzzle that I am missing. Does it make a difference in teh scenarios I am describing if we are talking about a K162 (which I understood to be an exit to known space null/low/high) or if we are talking about a WH that leads to WHspace?

Regards

ps. thanks for your patience.



You've lost me... Both mine and the above posters explanations are the same thing. Sorry but it's really that hard.


/searches around for 3D props.....
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
#14 - 2012-07-06 09:37:41 UTC
Its really quite simple.

Imagine a tunnel in space. This tunnel has an entrance and an exit. The exit side will ALWAYS be a K162 signature, the entrance will not be.

If you find a K162 wormhole in your home system this can ONLY be because someone else has scanned it down and warped to it. Until they have scanned AND warped to it on their side it will not exist.

OK?
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :)
Zer'Adul
Impetuous Industrialism
Manifesto.
#15 - 2012-07-06 09:40:15 UTC
Barrak wrote:
hmm....

Everything was clearer before I started asking questions Ugh

Don't the last two responses contradict eachother a little?

One says (my interpretation) that I can not find the WH until someone uses the other side to enter my space. The other says that people the other side can't find the WH until I scan and use it.

I think there may be a piece of the puzzle that I am missing. Does it make a difference in teh scenarios I am describing if we are talking about a K162 (which I understood to be an exit to known space null/low/high) or if we are talking about a WH that leads to WHspace?

Regards

ps. thanks for your patience.



A K162 is a generic exit WH. All WHs, regardless of type have an entry and an exit. All exits will have a K162 on it. It's how you can tell an Inbound WH from an Outbound WH.
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
#16 - 2012-07-06 09:57:22 UTC
Although, just to confuse things there are also what are sometimes called 'roaming holes'.

These are not static to the system and are not K162 exits from other systems.

I haven't had one in my home system for a while but I recall the first time I found one it confused the hell out of me. Shocked
My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :)
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#17 - 2012-07-06 10:22:55 UTC
joes Bazooka wrote:
/searches around for 3D props.....


I did laugh at this, and once I again, I thank you for your patience (which I assume is starting to wear a little thin).


BobFenner wrote:
Its really quite simple.

Imagine a tunnel in space. This tunnel has an entrance and an exit. The exit side will ALWAYS be a K162 signature, the entrance will not be.

If you find a K162 wormhole in your home system this can ONLY be because someone else has scanned it down and warped to it. Until they have scanned AND warped to it on their side it will not exist.

OK?


Ok, this, along with all the other responses, has made things fall into place..... the 'piece of the puzzle' I was refering to earlier.

If I find a K162, then I know someone, at the bear minimum, has scanned down and warped this WH from their space, beit null/low/high or another WHspace.

Is there anyway of knowing if this has been used?

Another question - Is it standard operating procedure of most WH corps to explore any and all Wormholes in their space? If the answer is 'Yes' to this question then I would derive that answer to my earlier question is that if it's there then it's pretty much been used.
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#18 - 2012-07-06 10:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrak
joes Bazooka wrote:
Well imagine i am in my WH smashing sites, i have not spawned my HS for a little extra safety as i watched it die i know its now no longer active.

This means from HS,LS or Null that you cannot scan down and find that entry to my WH until i initiate a warp to my static.

I can however get nasty bad men come in from other ways to touch me in bad places.


Based on this comment, if I wanted to try and secure my WHspace as much as I could, I would want to do the following:


  • Close existing EXITS
  • Scan new ones but NOT warp to them
  • Close existing entrances
  • Pray new EXITS (K162's) do not appear, but scan for them.



Regards
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#19 - 2012-07-06 10:28:01 UTC
The answer usually is yes.
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-07-06 11:04:49 UTC
Barrak wrote:
joes Bazooka wrote:
Well imagine i am in my WH smashing sites, i have not spawned my HS for a little extra safety as i watched it die i know its now no longer active.

This means from HS,LS or Null that you cannot scan down and find that entry to my WH until i initiate a warp to my static.

I can however get nasty bad men come in from other ways to touch me in bad places.


Based on this comment, if I wanted to try and secure my WHspace as much as I could, I would want to do the following:


  • Close existing EXITS
  • Scan new ones but NOT warp to them
  • Close existing entrances
  • Pray new EXITS (K162's) do not appear, but scan for them.



Regards


Your getting warmer now.
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