These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The eternal "what does it require" (New players read). Can we end it? (To the veteran play
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Archdaimon
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#1 - 2012-07-05 11:07:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Archdaimon
They pop up. And often. What does it take to do X in a Y class WH. Ships, accounts, tactics and logistics.
Often they don't even ask that. Often it is: "Can I do sites in a c6 with the following setup?".
Answer to that question is probably yes, with some minor modifications. But it is the wrong question.
The real question any would-be wormholer should ask himself is: Is it sound for me to do x in y class wh, with what is available to me?

This is a tough question and it requires a certain knowledge base which I hope we can develop here. In order to live the wonderful life of wormhole, what should an aspiring CEO assemble to get his team ready?

Each of the greater WH corps has their share of secrets and this thread is not meant to share those, but more an overall "quit dreaming unless you at least have x" kinda thread. A ship thread has been started, but I want to move above "min requirement". People takin that into the bigger wh are going to get a nasty surprise. And continuesly kicking out farming carebears might become boring at some point Twisted

Maybe you also disagree with me? That anyone can take anything and live in these systems?
Because of the greater number of lower class wh, hiding among the many becomes a factor and thus less of danger.

But truth be told, if you really want to learn wh life, join a wh corp!

As in:

If you want to live in a C6, what should you be prepared for?

  • Defense against: Alliances of 50+ active members, with full cap fleets, t3's and logistics

  • Typical encounter: T3's with logistic support hidden somewhere.

  • Logistics: Be prepared to fuel several large pos's to house caps

  • Initial investment costs: 20+ billions

  • Required tools to operate: Some sort of chain mapping system. Probably an loot sharing system as well.

  • Note: C6 has some hundred systems. With the amount of static c6's in large wh alliances, if they want to invade you, they will find you and probably sooner rather than later. Your defense has to be military, not camuflage.

If you want to live in a C5, what should you be prepared for?

  • Defense against: Alliances of 50+ active members, with full cap fleets, t3's and logistics

  • Typical encounter: T3's with logistic support hidden somewhere.

  • Logistics: Be prepared to fuel several large pos's to house caps

  • Initial investment costs: 20+ billions

  • Required tools to operate: Some sort of chain mapping system. Probably an loot sharing system as well.

  • Note: Biggest difference between c5 and c6 is the amount of systems. Cycling into a specific c5 is a *****. Specific targets for invasion is harder, but will none-the-less happen often.


If you want to live in a C4, what should you be prepared for?

  • Defense against:

  • Logistics:

  • Initial investment costs:
Required tools to operate:

  • Note:

If you want to live in a C3, what should you be prepared for?

  • Defense against:

  • Logistics:

  • Initial investment costs:

  • Required tools to operate:

  • Note:

If you want to live in a C2, what should you be prepared for? (Thanks to Bane Nucleus)

• Defense against: Day trippers from high sec, low sec pirates, Exhale , other wh alliances connecting

• Typical encounter: BC gangs, T3 gangs w/ logi, bombers

• Logistics: Fuel is easy to get with an abundance of kspace wh's. Can be fun with just a few people, but it will leave you vulnerable to attack.

• Initial investment costs: About a bil or two for a large tower, fuel, and decent defenses

• Required tools to operate: Some sort of chain mapping system. Probably an loot sharing system as well.

  • Note: Truth be told, it really varies on what you want to do. A corp my size rarely has to worry about anyone just jumping in and having their way with us. Smaller corps will find themselves to be much easier targets.

    • If you want to live in a C1, what should you be prepared for?

    • Defense against:

    • Logistics:

    • Initial investment costs:

    • Required tools to operate:

      [*] Note:

    Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
    Tricky Dutch
    Anoikis Equilibrium
    Honorable Third Party
    #2 - 2012-07-10 01:33:02 UTC
    So.. do you want us to post with what we've found out?
    killroy v2
    Catskull Horizons
    Grimskulls
    #3 - 2012-07-10 04:22:23 UTC
    tbh it wud b nice 4 someone 2 put 1 of these for both pvp and pve up in the sticky so people will quit askingBear
    Jim Roebuck
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #4 - 2012-07-10 06:36:07 UTC
    For defense in C1's, I'd say probably against a 20-30 member corp with most having access to BC's or T2 cruisers.

    When Bon Scott died and he appeared before St. Peter at the gates of Heaven, St. Peter looked at his record and told him he couldn't get in. Just then, God screams at Peter, "Let him in, Karen Carpenter is driving me nuts. I want to hear some music with balls. We'll haggle over the paperwork later." At least I hope that's what happened.
    Archdaimon
    Merchants of the Golden Goose
    #5 - 2012-07-10 11:04:41 UTC
    It would really nice if people would help me fill out the blank and discuss / verify the actual info.

    Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
    Suqq Madiq
    #6 - 2012-07-10 15:58:05 UTC
    Archdaimon wrote:
    It would really nice if people would help me fill out the blank and discuss / verify the actual info.


    Just because you choose to waste your own time on a pointless thread that nobody in your intended audience will ever read, why do you believe you should waste other people's time as well?
    Archdaimon
    Merchants of the Golden Goose
    #7 - 2012-07-10 16:06:58 UTC
    You wasting time replying imply that some interest has been garnered. And strictly speaking, no one forces you to do anything.

    Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
    Suqq Madiq
    #8 - 2012-07-11 01:04:09 UTC
    Archdaimon wrote:
    You wasting time replying imply that some interest has been garnered. And strictly speaking, no one forces you to do anything.


    You didn't answer my question so I'll ask it again.

    If you can't take the few minutes necessary to fill in the blanks (the information can be readily found in dozens of threads on these forums and elsewhere) then why should anybody else put in the effort? You said it yourself, these questions have been asked many times before and will pop up many times again, which means the answers to these questions have been given many times before and will be given many times again, so why should I or anybody else do the research for you when it's been done so many times already? Put in some effort and maybe you'll be rewarded with a nice sticky. But don't hold your breath for too long.
    QT McWhiskers
    EdgeGamers
    #9 - 2012-07-11 02:02:42 UTC
    In c1-3 all you really need is an active corp + 1-2 death star towers, and you need to hide your super shinys. If you aren't worth invasion, most won't invade. If you make it a supreme ***** to fight your tower, most won't want to touch that.

    As for roams through your hole. Well you have k space... So be prepared for lots of kitchen sinks. Any t3 or other competent fleet setup is probably from c5 or c6 residents.
    Boober Fraggle
    #10 - 2012-07-11 04:36:55 UTC
    No. You cannot generalize wormholes. There are too many variables. For example, its a Wolf Rayette. Now every answer is now different.

    You have to have a completely different strategy for different statics. C2's can have small or large mass statics. THats not AS big of a consideration since tier 3 BC's, but still important.

    You can choose not to answer people, or you can answer their question, or you can choose to answer the question you think they should be asking.

    A 40M sp Tengu pilot can use a completely different strategy than a 7Msp tengu pilot.

    Just choose to answer them or not. Its like asking to ban howard stern when you can just not listen.
    Archdaimon
    Merchants of the Golden Goose
    #11 - 2012-07-11 08:31:01 UTC
    Suqq Madiq wrote:
    Archdaimon wrote:
    You wasting time replying imply that some interest has been garnered. And strictly speaking, no one forces you to do anything.


    You didn't answer my question so I'll ask it again.



    Ah, but now your question makes sense, and I might be able to answer.

    The reason of the blanks is simply put lack of experience. I have lived in a c2 with static hi for a short while and can/will write something about that.

    The poster above me have an interesting point. The static WH in your WH is a very important factor. If you live in a c2 with static c5+ odds are you'll meet the above mentioned fleets more often.

    I'll try to make some qualified guesses on the other sizes, but I'll need som reviews and discussion regarding the value behind it.

    Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
    QT McWhiskers
    EdgeGamers
    #12 - 2012-07-11 21:51:12 UTC
    Boober Fraggle wrote:
    No. You cannot generalize wormholes. There are too many variables. For example, its a Wolf Rayette. Now every answer is now different.

    You have to have a completely different strategy for different statics. C2's can have small or large mass statics. THats not AS big of a consideration since tier 3 BC's, but still important.

    You can choose not to answer people, or you can answer their question, or you can choose to answer the question you think they should be asking.

    A 40M sp Tengu pilot can use a completely different strategy than a 7Msp tengu pilot.

    Just choose to answer them or not. Its like asking to ban howard stern when you can just not listen.



    What? First, holes connecting to a c2 will always have a 2bil mass limit or smaller. 250m jump limit.

    Second, its a c2... Wolf rayet, pulsar, magnetar, none of these play major roles in such small holes since their.effects are minuscule. Granted this doesn't mean you shouldn't take these things into effect, but using a shield Drake in a c2 WR is not that large of a derp.
    Ayeson
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #13 - 2012-07-11 21:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeson
    QT McWhiskers wrote:

    What? First, holes connecting to a c2 will always have a 2bil mass limit or smaller. 250m jump limit.


    I dont know how to read, QT is right, that being said it is a 300m jump limit :)

    I ♥ the orthrus
    Mart Allini
    Lead Farmers
    #14 - 2012-07-11 22:49:43 UTC
    Ayeson wrote:
    QT McWhiskers wrote:

    What? First, holes connecting to a c2 will always have a 2bil mass limit or smaller. 250m jump limit.


    Actually, Its determined by the originating hole...so this is incorrect.


    No, it isn't. You will find WHs with less than 2 bill total and 250 mill per jump(coming from a c1 for example) but never more. Just like no WH leading to a c1 will allow more than 20 mill per jump and no WH leading to HS will allow more than a freighter to come through(most won't allow that, I know)
    Bane Nucleus
    Dark Venture Corporation
    Kitchen Sinkhole
    #15 - 2012-07-11 23:44:11 UTC
    If you want to live in a C2, what should you be prepared for?


    • Defense against: Day trippers from high sec, low sec pirates, Exhale P, other wh alliances connecting

    • Typical encounter: BC gangs, T3 gangs w/ logi, bombers

    • Logistics: Fuel is easy to get with an abundance of kspace wh's. Can be fun with just a few people, but it will leave you vulnerable to attack.

    • Initial investment costs: About a bil or two for a large tower, fuel, and decent defenses

    • Required tools to operate: Some sort of chain mapping system. Probably an loot sharing system as well.

      [*] Note: Truth be told, it really varies on what you want to do. A corp my size rarely has to worry about anyone just jumping in and having their way with us. Smaller corps will find themselves to be much easier targets.

    No trolling please
    Ayeson
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #16 - 2012-07-11 23:46:41 UTC
    Not sure how I managed to miss the c2 part of that post, confirming they are both correct and I am stupid

    I ♥ the orthrus
    Vjorn Angannon
    Lazerhawks
    L A Z E R H A W K S
    #17 - 2012-07-12 02:38:33 UTC
    Ayeson wrote:
    Not sure how I managed to miss the c2 part of that post, confirming they are both correct and I am stupid


    Meh....blame it on a lack of (insert favorite beverage).....

    it's what i do Lol
    Archdaimon
    Merchants of the Golden Goose
    #18 - 2012-07-12 07:43:31 UTC
    Updated c2's with Banes experience.

    Wormholes have the best accoustics. It's known. - Sing it for me -
    Lloyd Roses
    Artificial Memories
    #19 - 2012-07-12 11:45:16 UTC
    I think this should be a bit more explained and made sticky, also some recommendations numbers and ship classes to be used for certain W-Holes could be listed, like
    '2 T3 and 2 nightmares/machariels to raid a c3 in no time', or
    'drake is the vessel with best cost/reward factor for solo C1/C2 work'

    some key lines, aside from that, +1 anyways. And make this sticky!


    Or tell them, they need a cloaky nullified T3 for sleeper sites, so I can increase my income a little^^