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45b to invest - no collateral no party - 10% interest - request from 250mil to 45bil
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MicioGatto
#1 - 2012-07-05 05:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: MicioGatto
Hello capsuleers!

Due to my job I can't trade for the next month and a half so I can't keep up my awesomeness in the market anymore.

I'm going to invest some of my isk: 45bil
I'll give them away only if the person asking can provide collateral for the price of the loan + 15/20%
I'll hold collateral OR if you prefer you can use a 3rd party but YOU pay the fee.

If you have any questions don't hesitate to contact me here or mail me.

Have fun.

NOTE: PPL don't have to ask for the full 45bil, so if you guys want less like 1bil or even less just ask for it, and if you can provide collaterals is all good.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#2 - 2012-07-05 08:54:45 UTC
MicioGatto wrote:
I'm going to invest some of my isk: 45bil
I'll give them away only if the person asking can provide collateral for the price of the loan + 15/20%
I'll hold collateral OR if you prefer you can use a 3rd party but YOU pay the fee.

10% plus fees for a 45b loan collateralised at 115%+ seems very high. How did you arrive at that rate?
Bethany Ring
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-07-05 11:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Bethany Ring
Why would you get the 15/20% before the invest was done? That just dont make any sense you are asking for a 10% investment. increase. Yet you want to hold an additional 15/20%? I want to trade in a world where you trade, where even if your investment is lost, you still gained 15/20% :P

Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. [u]Albert Einstein[/u]
Estel Again
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-07-05 11:16:12 UTC
Bad Bobby can attest that an effective rate of 1% to 2% is plenty to secure a fully collaterized multi-billion investment.
Srioghal moDhream
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-07-05 13:27:33 UTC
It's his money he can ask for whatever he wants.
Whether he gets anything is a different story, but if you are not investing in him then what business is it of yours?
flakeys
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-07-05 13:45:10 UTC
Srioghal moDhream wrote:
It's his money he can ask for whatever he wants.
Whether he gets anything is a different story, but if you are not investing in him then what business is it of yours?


Public forum and free speech for example ?

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-07-05 13:47:09 UTC
Srioghal moDhream wrote:
It's his money he can ask for whatever he wants.
Whether he gets anything is a different story, but if you are not investing in him then what business is it of yours?


Two reasons:

1) This is a public forum so stuff posted here is public business. If someone posts a terrible offer such as this, asking for more than three times the going rate for a collateralised investment then it is good that other people point this out in case it hooks in someone without enough experience to realise he is being ripped off. On top of the community service angle, it is also the case that if crap offers like this are left untouched then they may be diverting business from more competitive offers, so it is also in the selfish interests of anyone who loans money at reasonable rates to make it clear just how crap this offer is. This is one of those lucky occassions when selfishness and selflessness coincide. Big smile

2) While asking for a huge interest rate the OP is also stating that the borrower will have to pay ADDITIONAL fees to use a third party to hold the collateral. If the OP holds the collateral himself, he will be in a position to scam somewhere up to 20% of the 45bil, so potentially as much as 9bil without undergoing any of the scrutiny that someone asking to borrow 9bil would have to undergo. So, lots of risk for the borrower as well as extortionate fees. And there are lots of people on MD who have a general interest in minimising the number of scams that take place here. Again, the reasons may be selfless or selfish.
Srioghal moDhream
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-07-05 13:48:29 UTC
How does that apply? Is anyone censoring you? No, people just feel the need to troll, maybe it is out of jealousy or envy because he has isk they don't, or he is asking for a better return then others received so they are upset.

In general people need to get over themselves, you are not that important to most others so stop polluting threads (like I am doing now, sorry to the OP).
Srioghal moDhream
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-07-05 13:50:35 UTC
Epikurus wrote:
Srioghal moDhream wrote:
It's his money he can ask for whatever he wants.
Whether he gets anything is a different story, but if you are not investing in him then what business is it of yours?


Two reasons:

1) This is a public forum so stuff posted here is public business. If someone posts a terrible offer such as this, asking for more than three times the going rate for a collateralised investment then it is good that other people point this out in case it hooks in someone without enough experience to realise he is being ripped off. On top of the community service angle, it is also the case that if crap offers like this are left untouched then they may be diverting business from more competitive offers, so it is also in the selfish interests of anyone who loans money at reasonable rates to make it clear just how crap this offer is. This is one of those lucky occassions when selfishness and selflessness coincide. Big smile

2) While asking for a huge interest rate the OP is also stating that the borrower will have to pay ADDITIONAL fees to use a third party to hold the collateral. If the OP holds the collateral himself, he will be in a position to scam somewhere up to 20% of the 45bil, so potentially as much as 9bil without undergoing any of the scrutiny that someone asking to borrow 9bil would have to undergo. So, lots of risk for the borrower as well as extortionate fees. And there are lots of people on MD who have a general interest in minimising the number of scams that take place here. Again, the reasons may be selfless or selfish.



Have you ever gotten a loan or mortgage from a bank? If so try to tell them they have to pay any fees associated with them lending you money, see how that goes.

In general the lendee should be covering all fees. They are the ones asking for the loan/favour whatever.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#10 - 2012-07-05 14:05:58 UTC
Srioghal moDhream wrote:
people just feel the need to troll, maybe it is out of jealousy or envy because he has isk they don't, or he is asking for a better return then others received so they are upset.

Absolutely! I am so bitter about my e-poverty that I must spew bile upon any public venture I see in a feeble attempt to bring them down. What a vile thing I am.

On the other hand, I could just be asking a perfectly valid and polite question about the product being offered.
Estel Again
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-07-05 14:22:41 UTC
Srioghal moDhream wrote:
It's his money he can ask for whatever he wants.

It is his money, but it is not his thread.
We are free to point out that he's asking for a lot, just as you are free to derail this thread with your offtopic posts.
flakeys
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-07-05 14:37:24 UTC
Srioghal moDhream wrote:
No, people just feel the need to troll, .



Uhm those people you call trolls had valid questions or comments on the OP's post , YOU are the only one derailing the thread by NOT talking about his offer but about the people who where talking about the offer.

TrOlL

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
MicioGatto
#13 - 2012-07-05 15:47:47 UTC  |  Edited by: MicioGatto
the 15/20% is because the collateral can lose value so it's helping me in the unlucky case that it happens, market is really unstable right now and usually ppl use t2bpo for collateral. What if t2 bpo market crash (tech nerf or whatever) and I find myself with 50-60% of the loan value?

Again is not much different from ppl selling bond at 10% return.
If you have collateral and need more liquid isk i'm the guy.
You don't like it? Well good for you, have fun and fly safe.

I'm not here to discuss with you, if you want to suggest a different deal I'm open, if you are just here to mock me and troll, you can just get the **** out :)

BTW no one has to take the full 45bil loan, if you take just 5bil for example, if i scam you i'm going to get what? 1bil?

And I'm going to **** my reputation for just 1bil? you gotta be crazy... or even the full 45bil it's just 9bil!

NINE bils are nothing.... you are paranoid guys.

ps: stop mailing me asking for low quantity of isk uncollaterized. I'll not give isk w/o collateral.
Epikurus
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-07-05 16:34:50 UTC
Grendell, a very well-known name with an excellent track record of holding collateral, currently has a post on the front page indicating that he has 470bil available to loan. He will be charging somewhere in the region of 2.5-5%. If you want your product to be successful then you need to compete with what else is on the market. Can you give any reason a borrower would prefer your product to Grendell's? If not, then you need to rethink your approach and come back with a more realistic level of interest (c. 3% from my prior experience of both borrowing and lending).

Btw, the reason that you are getting emails asking for small uncollateralised loans is because you are charging the same interest rates that people charge for small uncollateralised loans. A first time borrower with no credit history launching an uncollateralised bond for 2-5bil would expect to pay 10% a month. That is pretty much the highest interest rate that you see with any regularity here (at least in the 2.5 years I've been around). Trusted borrowers with good histories can get 3-4% uncollateralised and people like Grendell can borrow 100s of billion uncollateralised for 2% and less. The collateralised loan market is very competitive as lots of people on eve have lots of money. Not only can a borrower with collateral turn to Grendell or BMBE and get a loan for c. 3% but all they need to do is post on MD that they want money and have collateral and marketeers with spare cash will literally fall over themselves trying to loan to them. If you actually want to sell your product (and loans are products, they are not favours) then you really need to adjust your offer to market standards or no-one will have any reason to buy from you.
Eddie Laydon
Laydon Industries
#15 - 2012-07-05 16:38:22 UTC
MicioGatto wrote:
NINE bils are nothing.... you are paranoid guys.


If you think 9bil is nothing you should gtfo.

I dont know what world you live in, but in this one uncollateralized loans are not worth 10%.
MicioGatto
#16 - 2012-07-05 16:38:26 UTC  |  Edited by: MicioGatto
Epikurus wrote:
Grendell, a very well-known name with an excellent track record of holding collateral, currently has a post on the front page indicating that he has 470bil available to loan. He will be charging somewhere in the region of 2.5-5%. If you want your product to be successful then you need to compete with what else is on the market. Can you give any reason a borrower would prefer your product to Grendell's? If not, then you need to rethink your approach and come back with a more realistic level of interest (c. 3% from my prior experience of both borrowing and lending).

Btw, the reason that you are getting emails asking for small uncollateralised loans is because you are charging the same interest rates that people charge for small uncollateralised loans. A first time borrower with no credit history launching an uncollateralised bond for 2-5bil would expect to pay 10% a month. That is pretty much the highest interest rate that you see with any regularity here (at least in the 2.5 years I've been around). Trusted borrowers with good histories can get 3-4% uncollateralised and people like Grendell can borrow 100s of billion uncollateralised for 2% and less. The collateralised loan market is very competitive as lots of people on eve have lots of money. Not only can a borrower with collateral turn to Grendell or BMBE and get a loan for c. 3% but all they need to do is post on MD that they want money and have collateral and marketeers with spare cash will literally fall over themselves trying to loan to them. If you actually want to sell your product (and loans are products, they are not favours) then you really need to adjust your offer to market standards or no-one will have any reason to buy from you.



Well yes, that was an interesting answer and I now understood that my offer is not competitive. I'll then rethink about it OR just check periodically to ppl asking isk for a good interest rate.
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-07-05 16:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakach
1) He can ask whatever he wants
2) People are going to point out when something is quite a bit different than the norm.

That being said...

Here's what I don't get. You're target group(based on the way the main post is written) is a good trader as not many people can handle giving 50bil of assets while trying also pay-back 20% interest on that 45bil.

Now they we've established the target group, lets see the incentive.

Now that you have a good trader, they're probably making 50%-150% return/month. Lets assume 100%. They give you 50b of assets that they don't need, and you give them 45bil of money. At the end of the month, they turned that 45b into 90b. They probably still don't need their asset back, so they're probably just better off sticking with the money.

Assuming they didn't want to ruin their name, they will trade you back, but if they were going to scam you, then they used you has a quick way to liquidate.

What it comes down to is your target audience is lots of smaller traders trying to get capital or one really good trader who has no capital but knows how to invest.

Since I can't see a decent trader not having tons of isk, my guess is it would be the first group. So lots of small time traders looking for 250m-1bil.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but my guess is you need to advertise to smaller traders instead of advertising to big traders.

Full Colat + high interest is not going to be too popular for loans this large. My guess anyway

edit: I am trying to be a constructive critic, sorry if I come off "trolling". I tend to do that sometimes even if not my intentions.
MicioGatto
#18 - 2012-07-05 16:49:01 UTC
I think i have advertised it wrong, I'm NOT searching for ONE trader getting all the 45bils,

I will loan whatever quantity of isk is needed, if a person ask me for 500mil he can have his 500mil if he can collaterize it.

I can even loan to 100 different guys, i don't mind it.
I just need to make this 45bil on some sort of profit because it makes me cry looking my wallet and thinking how many bils i could have done if i had the time to play.
Kei Darker
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-07-05 19:03:12 UTC
MicioGatto wrote:
I think i have advertised it wrong, I'm NOT searching for ONE trader getting all the 45bils,

I will loan whatever quantity of isk is needed, if a person ask me for 500mil he can have his 500mil if he can collaterize it.

I can even loan to 100 different guys, i don't mind it.
I just need to make this 45bil on some sort of profit because it makes me cry looking my wallet and thinking how many bils i could have done if i had the time to play.


Business plan:
1. Loan to as many people as possible with very high collateral.
2. Hope for defaults.
3. Profit 10% from those who don't default.
4. Profit 25% from those who do default.

Sounds like a decent plan.
MicioGatto
#20 - 2012-07-05 20:17:50 UTC
Kei Darker wrote:
MicioGatto wrote:
I think i have advertised it wrong, I'm NOT searching for ONE trader getting all the 45bils,

I will loan whatever quantity of isk is needed, if a person ask me for 500mil he can have his 500mil if he can collaterize it.

I can even loan to 100 different guys, i don't mind it.
I just need to make this 45bil on some sort of profit because it makes me cry looking my wallet and thinking how many bils i could have done if i had the time to play.


Business plan:
1. Loan to as many people as possible with very high collateral.
2. Hope for defaults.
3. Profit 10% from those who don't default.
4. Profit 25% from those who do default.

Sounds like a decent plan.


Yes man, you nailed it.

I could profit x4 if i had the time to use my isk, if there were more ppl like rykker i would just give them the isk and earn my 10% monthly profit and be happy. To bad there aren't.
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