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Skill Training Times -- What is the Underlying Logic/Mechanic
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Frying Doom
#41 - 2012-07-04 02:18:46 UTC
The training times are simply put, designed so that people who work a lot and therefore have a lot of money, don't get out done by some snotty pimply faced puke, who has no life and can spend all his time in the game.

Then these "working" people can buy plex's, if they work to much to balance out their isk to match their SP.

So essentially the unemployed work for slave wages to help the working people have fun.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#42 - 2012-07-04 02:46:25 UTC
Eve is an old game and has a cleverly hidden "keep em playing" old school type design that rivals Korean grinders in skill development duration. Would rather see things speed up a bit and see new skills introduced then wait 20 plus days for a nominal 5% increase.
Knug LiDi
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-07-04 03:00:29 UTC
Urgg Boolean wrote:
Welcome to "instant gratification" flame war territory!

Training times are not realistic at all. Real classes and training take LESS time than the fake clock-timer EvE skills.

A while ago, I posted a comparison of my atmospheric physics class (fulfils B6 science requirement at Cal State East Bay) to Advanced Planetology:
1a) Both require many prereqs so we can ignore the time for those.
1b) At the time of the comparison, my main had +4 implants and was optimized for Perception and Willpower.
2) Atmospheric physics is 6 in-class hours plus about 8 hours of home work per week for 10 weeks
:: (6 x 10) + (8 x 10) = 140 hours (4 hours of that is eaten up by exams but I won't agrue about that.)
3) Making a conservative guess, Advanced Planetology V (an x5 multiplier) will take ~14 days X 24 hours/day = 336 hours.

So, 140 hours for a real skill that is on my resume versus 336 hours for a fake skill only usable in EvE. That's a ridiculous difference even accounting for an unoptimized brain mapping.

This is not about instant gratification. I simply don't think fake skills should take LONGER than real college level science. I'll go out on the flame war limb and state that skill times should be cut in half. This opinion is based upon starting a new character at a time when the skill timer was faster for noobs, and it actually felt like the correct training speed. ~45+ days for Gallente Carrier V ? Really? Training times are nutz.


Buddy:

And yet, you can learn the skill "Electrical engineering" to an Elite level (equivalent to doctorate, perhaps) in less than 3 months vs 8 years (minimum) in real world (ignoring that academia is not real world) and you are claiming that skills progress too slowly ?

Good grief man, L3 in a skill would be equivalent to a baccalaureate , l4 would be masters, l5 is doctorate. Please go out and try again. And yes, flying a titan would take the equivalent of several doctorates)

If only we could fall into a woman's arms

without falling into her hands
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#44 - 2012-07-04 03:31:07 UTC
EVE skills have no meaning outside of the game so comparing their training times to a real life education is pointless.

EVE is not real!
Nathan Ernaga
Applesauce Brigade
#45 - 2012-07-04 10:56:46 UTC
Just imagine EvE full of titans and indys. Yes, I'm looking at you STO.

If you have in your hands the key to the fulfillment of your life's ambition and superiority over most, if you are aware that there is an absolute power on hand (just over the basic moral principles) how far are you willing to go and through what you are willing to tread?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-07-04 11:19:45 UTC
Plus 1 wrote:
EVE is not real!


Yes is it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2012-07-04 11:39:16 UTC
Knug LiDi wrote:
Good grief man, L3 in a skill would be equivalent to a baccalaureate , l4 would be masters, l5 is doctorate.
Nah. Bump those down a notch or two. Coming up on one, I can tell you with some certainty that a doctorate is lvl III at the most… P
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2012-07-04 13:40:53 UTC
Eve's SP system means that you can play the game in the manner you want to, rather than being forced to grind for new levels as happens in nearly every other MMO.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Gabriel Z
Krabulous
#49 - 2012-07-04 15:52:36 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Eve's SP system means that you can play the game in the manner you want to, rather than being forced to grind for new levels as happens in nearly every other MMO.

You can play in the manner you want to, 4 months from when you first want it.

Thanks for all the great responses people. While I'm waiting for the skill points to pile up, I can still think about stuff. Which is why I wrote this post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=128977&find=unread

I'm off to complete a little more wishful thinking.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#50 - 2012-07-04 15:59:00 UTC
Aruken Marr wrote:


I really hate it when people go around telling new players they need to have trained xyz or skill up for a couple of months before you can play the game properly and be useful. Players can be useful from day 1 with lvl 2 and 3 basic skills. This is just a bad attitude to have and it's one new players could do without hearing.



Agreed. All you need to get started is a frigate, a MicroWarpdrive and a Warp Disruptor.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-07-04 16:01:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
My character can only do so much tigers blood before needing a s10 minute break. But its the only way he crams a full day of training into 5 minutes of study.
Gabriel Z
Krabulous
#52 - 2012-07-04 16:03:40 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:


I really hate it when people go around telling new players they need to have trained xyz or skill up for a couple of months before you can play the game properly and be useful. Players can be useful from day 1 with lvl 2 and 3 basic skills. This is just a bad attitude to have and it's one new players could do without hearing.



Agreed. All you need to get started is a frigate, a MicroWarpdrive and a Warp Disruptor.

so why doesn't every major alliance in EVE have a noob fleet to make use of these extremely useful people? this question and point arose earlier in teh thread.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#53 - 2012-07-04 16:04:51 UTC
The SP requirement often isn't even about character skills at all. The SP means you spent couple months playing and SHOULD be self sufficient, and have a certain amount of game knowledge. In null many corps don't want to hold you hand much as far as making the isk goes. They want to go kill stuff. Others don't want to field to many "noobish" questions.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2012-07-04 16:06:32 UTC
Gabriel Z wrote:
so why doesn't every major alliance in EVE have a noob fleet to make use of these extremely useful people? this question and point arose earlier in teh thread.
Because they are lazy and can't be bothered.
Aruken Marr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2012-07-04 16:11:30 UTC
Gabriel Z wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Aruken Marr wrote:


I really hate it when people go around telling new players they need to have trained xyz or skill up for a couple of months before you can play the game properly and be useful. Players can be useful from day 1 with lvl 2 and 3 basic skills. This is just a bad attitude to have and it's one new players could do without hearing.



Agreed. All you need to get started is a frigate, a MicroWarpdrive and a Warp Disruptor.

so why doesn't every major alliance in EVE have a noob fleet to make use of these extremely useful people? this question and point arose earlier in teh thread.


Elitism, faggotry and a hint of paranoia.
Gabriel Z
Krabulous
#56 - 2012-07-04 16:13:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Gabriel Z wrote:
so why doesn't every major alliance in EVE have a noob fleet to make use of these extremely useful people? this question and point arose earlier in teh thread.
Because they are lazy and can't be bothered.

that's too bad. the noobs in EUNI were super willing to fly in the most suicidal fleets. they followed orders without any thought for their own safety and most thought it a victory to get into the battle at all, never mind win it. i don't know any numbers, but i have to believe 100 noobs in destroyers can kill a surprisingly large amount of stuff.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#57 - 2012-07-04 16:16:04 UTC
As far as I can figure, there is only one reason the skill training time will never be modified to make it shorter.

If you could train faster there would be much less reason to purchase alt accts.

While good for the players to have a faster training time, it's not good for CCP and it's their game. Not ours. So we either HTFU or GTFO.

Mr Epeen Cool
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2012-07-04 16:21:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Gabriel Z wrote:
that's too bad. the noobs in EUNI were super willing to fly in the most suicidal fleets. they followed orders without any thought for their own safety and most thought it a victory to get into the battle at all, never mind win it. i don't know any numbers, but i have to believe 100 noobs in destroyers can kill a surprisingly large amount of stuff.
Indeed they can, but they still require a fair amount of guidance and maintenance — you need to be willing to put the effort and investment in to get the output.

The whole point of EUNI is to do provide that guidance and support, so it's no surprising that they're doing it, and the Goons know (kind of) what they're getting before their newbies join so the hard part of the fit is already done… and their entire play style makes the investment a no-brainer.
Klown Walk
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-07-04 16:26:35 UTC
Well, I have a decent amount of sp (30m+) and I find myself using cheap frigates and cruisers the most.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2012-07-04 16:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Gabriel Z wrote:

so why doesn't every major alliance in EVE have a noob fleet to make use of these extremely useful people? this question and point arose earlier in teh thread.



Goons and Test do. There are several others who also take on nubs but for the most part the 0.0 alliances are daft and do not take advantage of this fine resource.

I personally love nub griffin pilots, they have protected my megathron several times