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Serpentis PLEX Tengu
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Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-07-02 01:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kadeyoo
Played around in PyFa a bit, this is what I came up with:

[Tengu, Serpentis HML Tengu]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Gist A-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Gist A-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir


Important stats (all are with without implants, for the sake of comparison, BUT with my skillset)
699 DPS with Scourge Fury at 114/146 (Exp Radius/Exp Velocity)
627 DPS with CN Scourge at 66.1/122 (Exp Radius/Exp Velocity)

Tank against Serpentis:
With 55% Therm / 45% Kinetic:
1056.8 EHP/s (OH: 2083.7 EHP/s)

Without Shield Boost Amplifier:
Tank against Serpentis:
With 55% Therm / 45% Kinetic:
777.1 EHP/s (OH: 1532.1 EHP/s)


Precision seems not worth it, since the explosion radius is only slightly below CN Scourge, and does substantially less damage.


Few points in regards to the tank:

Shield Booster II is swappable for a target painter or a web, this is why I presented the two tank numbers. This is a new ship, I'm kind of new
to exploration, so I will start with a mega tank, and reduce it once I get a feel for how much I really need. And the Rigors should push the explosion radius down to a reasonable size to kill frigates with (with the help of CN Scourge missiles).

As for the CCC rig, I like cap stability just for the heck out of it. Less I have to worry about, the more attention I can pay to Intel/Local/Alt.

And as a modification option (should there be any really tough sites out there), I can still drop one BCS for a DC and keep the Boost Amp on.

Last but not least, the c-type AB is on because I have it. Don't get me even started on it!

Any general opinions, or things I should be aiming at?
Remember, I will overtank my ship until I'm comfortable dropping tank on my own. And cap stability is a must, because I say so. Do not argue with me on either.

EDIT: This is for NPC 0.0 by the way. ;-)
Kisogo Magellin
Kostura RnD
#2 - 2012-07-02 04:57:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kisogo Magellin
EDIT: okay, I understand now

._.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2012-07-02 05:12:28 UTC
Kisogo Magellin wrote:
I've never fit a tengu before,


No, you clearly haven't.

Kisogo Magellin wrote:
buuuuuut

A small shield booster?! Take the amplifier off, and get a large shield booster.

There could be some advantage to having a small shield booster or a very good reason why you dont have a large one, but I'm too lazy to find out why.


Because it's plenty and it's nice and easy on cap, allowing more fitting room for other stuff?
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-07-02 05:12:34 UTC
Three reasons:
1) Ridiculously small cap usage
2) Price.
3) Should be enough for most if not all Guristas/Serpentis (though in my case only Serpentis) Plexes, because of the Tengus naturally high kinetic/thermal resistances

A Large shield booster would require too much CPU/PG to fit into that. So the only other choice would be Gist Medium Shield boosters (Pith just consumes too much cap) - but those are *a lot* more expensive.
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#5 - 2012-07-02 05:33:15 UTC
What plex were you planning to run?

I know that those figures of 1k dps tanked is probably not going to be enough for 6/10 or above unless you can mitigate a lot of the damage with either sig/speed tanking, or careful spawn agro

Minor Serpentis Annex for instance, an unlisted plex somewhere between a 5/10 and a 6/10 in difficulty will force my tank drake to warp out of the last room, and that drake has higher tanking stats than the tengu build you've provided

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-07-02 05:44:45 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
What plex were you planning to run?

I know that those figures of 1k dps tanked is probably not going to be enough for 6/10 or above unless you can mitigate a lot of the damage with either sig/speed tanking, or careful spawn agro

Minor Serpentis Annex for instance, an unlisted plex somewhere between a 5/10 and a 6/10 in difficulty will force my tank drake to warp out of the last room, and that drake has higher tanking stats than the tengu build you've provided


Well, I'd obviously be speed/sig tanking with the Tengu. It's why I have the AB on, and the Tengu has a significantly smaller signature radius than the Drake.

But somehow I have a hard time believing you can get a 1k+ tank on a Drake, without putting on billions on your Drake (at which point that would be ridiculously funny) - which I can do on the Tengu as well. Except, I can still rock twice the tank, twice the speed, twice the DPS and half the signature radius on the Tengu. WTB your fitting.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#7 - 2012-07-02 05:58:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Zhilia Mann
Oy. So much bad already in this thread.


  1. The posted Tengu will handle null sigs more or less fine. 8/10 could pose a problem but 10/10 and 7/10 should be easy.
  2. Getting a Drake up over a 1000 DPS tank against Serpentis is trivial. Three LSEs, three purgers, three SPRs, three hardeners. Done.
  3. Minor Annexes are rough sites, period. Saying your tank struggles in one is *yawn*. Just be glad you aren't in the Blood Raider version.

Edit: forum software hates me.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#8 - 2012-07-02 06:09:35 UTC
My first thought was:
No cloaky or Nullify. Means you risk that ship on every gate. Drag bubbles, dicters, etc. you might as well fly a Tempest or a Drake or whatever. Same risk, less cost.

I use a Large booster + amp myself. I think 'cap stable' is highly over rated. It means nothing if you can't out-boost the incoming DPS. Not saying one is right or wrong, but mine works for me.
My friend is Mad Hops. A decent ship fitter, works for BattleClinic. He likes duel smalls, also cap stable.
Another friend uses all amps, not hardeners, and a medium booster. His works for him.
I like AB, They both like MWD.

My fit gimps my DPS, but I can tank any and all Serp plex's, and have only lost a ship to the very bad ending in Provincial HQ.
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-07-02 06:12:44 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Oy. So much bad already in this thread.


  1. The posted Tengu will handle null sigs more or less fine. 8/10 could pose a problem but 10/10 and 7/10 should be easy.
  2. Getting a Drake up over a 1000 DPS tank against Serpentis is trivial. Three LSEs, three purgers, three SPRs, three hardeners. Done.
  3. Minor Annexes are rough sites, period. Saying your tank struggles in one is *yawn*. Just be glad you aren't in the Blood Raider version.

Edit: forum software hates me.


In regard to your second point: Ah well - it is possible I guess, but that leaves you without an afterburner (this is tank), totally bloated up signature radius (this goes against your tank as well) and totally gimped down DPS (which in a way goes against your tank as well, as it takes much longer to remove DPS off the field) - but I guess it's less than an option. Anyway, enough with the Drake! :-)


But thank you for your insights. Though you said "more or less fine" - which indicates you have something more optimal in mind. Care to share? :)

(For the mentioned 8/10, would you recommend the shield boost amp version with maybe a damage control added -or- simply a LG crystal jumpclone?)
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#10 - 2012-07-02 07:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tomcio FromFarAway
I use that fit and I manage to do most sites with no problems.

As for DED8 I had no problems doing this site in my fit. Just kill all sub-battleship rats asap. You need to use another ship to make the station loose it's repping capability.

I also have +5% Heavy missile ROF and Damage implants.

Of course that ship needs a proper scout.

A-type AB is for 100% effective MWD+Cloak. Can try Gistum ones.

[Tengu, Naughty Peeper]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Power Diagnostic System II

Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Corelum A-Type 10MN Afterburner

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Heavy Missile
Improved Cloaking Device II

Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-07-02 10:07:06 UTC
This fit can be easily done and not that expensive as long as you clean low/null sec DED sites and are a lucky guy.
Notice the B-Type Invuln can perfectly be swap for T2 or a lower cost one. Use CN Scourge and Fury Scourge

[Tengu, Tengu Farm]

Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Republic Fleet 10MN Afterburner
Pithum B-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Pithum B-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile

Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Eifyr and Co. 'Rogue' Acceleration Control AC-605
Zainou 'Snapshot' Heavy Missiles HM-705
Zainou 'Deadeye' Guided Missile Precision GP-805
Zainou 'Deadeye' Target Navigation Prediction TN-905
Zainou 'Deadeye' Rapid Launch RL-1005

Strong points:

-75.5K EHP with 76/90/85/75 resist profile and 240/310 HP rep p/cycle

-720m/s without heat providing an excellent speed tank

-713 DPS with Fury Scourge

-Cap stable 40% with everything running

Of course you'll be hitting your D-scan searching for probes and will outsmart neutrals searching for you, if you don't your wallet will feel the pain.

brb
Mortis Betruger
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-07-02 10:50:48 UTC
Kisogo Magellin wrote:
I've never fit a tengu before, buuuuuut

A small shield booster?! Take the amplifier off, and get a large shield booster.

There could be some advantage to having a small shield booster or a very good reason why you dont have a large one, but I'm too lazy to find out why.



Why do people think they need to post in a thread when they dont know WTF they are talking about. You say you have never fit a Tengu, yet you still post in a thread about fitting Tengus.
Copine Callmeknau
Dirty Vagrants
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#13 - 2012-07-02 11:05:22 UTC
Kadeyoo wrote:
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Oy. So much bad already in this thread.


  1. The posted Tengu will handle null sigs more or less fine. 8/10 could pose a problem but 10/10 and 7/10 should be easy.
  2. Getting a Drake up over a 1000 DPS tank against Serpentis is trivial. Three LSEs, three purgers, three SPRs, three hardeners. Done.
  3. Minor Annexes are rough sites, period. Saying your tank struggles in one is *yawn*. Just be glad you aren't in the Blood Raider version.

Edit: forum software hates me.


In regard to your second point: Ah well - it is possible I guess, but that leaves you without an afterburner (this is tank), totally bloated up signature radius (this goes against your tank as well) and totally gimped down DPS (which in a way goes against your tank as well, as it takes much longer to remove DPS off the field) - but I guess it's less than an option. Anyway, enough with the Drake! :-)


But thank you for your insights. Though you said "more or less fine" - which indicates you have something more optimal in mind. Care to share? :)

(For the mentioned 8/10, would you recommend the shield boost amp version with maybe a damage control added -or- simply a LG crystal jumpclone?)

My drake fit is similar but not identical to the one outlined in the quoted post.
It's sole purpose is to tank a room at full agro with minimal interference from me while I run around on the main in my ganky talos blapping the rats.
So yeh considerations like ab or dps on the drake is irrelevant for me, I have one ship that sits still and does nothing but tank, one ship that goes fast and does nothing but gank.

If you want the fit let me know, it's a nice cheap alternative to the tengu, but you will of course need two accounts

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2012-07-02 11:07:54 UTC
Ah I see. Well, considering that I always have my second box in a cloaky prober/hacker/salvager/analyzer and +1 scout, and scouting/probing while I do sites already, this is not an option.


But thanks to everyone for their input, helped me greatly. The fit I have should be more than sufficient from what I gathered so far. :-)
Earthmother
Skybert Organization
Reeloaded.
#15 - 2012-07-02 12:14:52 UTC
Ok, i dont have those fancy fitting tools. but i consider myself experienced doing DED plexes in the tengu. i run it cap stable with a Gist B type large shield booster and a t2 shield boost amp. the rest o this ship is complete t2 with only the SHieldbooster beeing deadspace.

i use shieldregen sub system and cap recharge subsystem. only 5 launchers, but i get away with using ignore buble subsystem with this, and that have saved me several times.

it is a cheap fit should cost less than 1 bill and you are able to tank all DED plexes. only stress i have meet is in the serpentis plex with alota Neut towers in them. since i have 1 CCC rig, im able to tank 2 medium neuttowers, but not 1 heavy Neut tower.

to take down 8 a 10 serpentis you will need dps backup, unless the log out log in trick stil stops armour repping on the last tower.

for those that find the 3.5 bill tengus with small boosters seem alittle risky. look into what kinda tank u get with Gist large booster and a shield amp, some nice numbers.

ofc with all Tengus, AB is a must.
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2012-07-02 12:27:06 UTC
Earthmother wrote:
Ok, i dont have those fancy fitting tools. but i consider myself experienced doing DED plexes in the tengu. i run it cap stable with a Gist B type large shield booster and a t2 shield boost amp. the rest o this ship is complete t2 with only the SHieldbooster beeing deadspace.

i use shieldregen sub system and cap recharge subsystem. only 5 launchers, but i get away with using ignore buble subsystem with this, and that have saved me several times.

it is a cheap fit should cost less than 1 bill and you are able to tank all DED plexes. only stress i have meet is in the serpentis plex with alota Neut towers in them. since i have 1 CCC rig, im able to tank 2 medium neuttowers, but not 1 heavy Neut tower.

to take down 8 a 10 serpentis you will need dps backup, unless the log out log in trick stil stops armour repping on the last tower.

for those that find the 3.5 bill tengus with small boosters seem alittle risky. look into what kinda tank u get with Gist large booster and a shield amp, some nice numbers.

ofc with all Tengus, AB is a must.


I don't know what you have been smoking, but:
a) Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster is a good 100mil cheaper than your Gist B-Type Large Shield Booster
b) Gist B-Type Large Shield Booster requires the Capacitor Regeneration Matrix subsystem, which costs you one high slot/missile launcher, which is 110 DPS (equivalent to 15%).

Meaning the sacrifice of the 1 high slot does not come from the Interdiction Nullifier Subsystem, but from using the Capacitor Regeneration Matrix subsystem instead of the Augmented Capacitor Reservoir subsystem.

While granted, you can get a substantially higher tank, but I don't think this is really needed, a fair 1k DPS tank + Speed/Signature should be enough. And you would most definitely want a capacitor rig on it as well (whereas mine can be run without one, I just have the CCC rig on it because I want to).
Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-07-02 12:29:50 UTC
Earthmother wrote:
Ok, i dont have those fancy fitting tools. but i consider myself experienced doing DED plexes in the tengu. i run it cap stable with a Gist B type large shield booster and a t2 shield boost amp. the rest o this ship is complete t2 with only the SHieldbooster beeing deadspace.

i use shieldregen sub system and cap recharge subsystem. only 5 launchers, but i get away with using ignore buble subsystem with this, and that have saved me several times.

it is a cheap fit should cost less than 1 bill and you are able to tank all DED plexes. only stress i have meet is in the serpentis plex with alota Neut towers in them. since i have 1 CCC rig, im able to tank 2 medium neuttowers, but not 1 heavy Neut tower.

to take down 8 a 10 serpentis you will need dps backup, unless the log out log in trick stil stops armour repping on the last tower.

for those that find the 3.5 bill tengus with small boosters seem alittle risky. look into what kinda tank u get with Gist large booster and a shield amp, some nice numbers.

ofc with all Tengus, AB is a must.



Not sure what you've been smoking, but the Pithi A-Type small shield booster is in fact 100mil cheaper than your B-Type large shield booster, not to mention the fact that the small one can be run on the Augmented Capacitor Reservoir subsystem (which gives you an extra launcher hardpoint for an added launcher = 15% more DPS -> for the same price (with maybe a slightly weaker tank, but from what I gathered here, everybody seems to think an a-type small shield booster is enough for all PLEXes)
Earthmother
Skybert Organization
Reeloaded.
#18 - 2012-07-02 12:43:52 UTC
yes dmg is lower. but since you dont have 6 launcers, you have the grid to get interdiction nullified sub. with 6 launcers, you need a diffrent system. atleast my experience.

yes the small booster is cheaper in it self. but since you loose so much shield recharge, most of the proposed fittings, uses deadspace hardners. and they run you at a pretty penny. my fit uses cheap and nice t2 hardners. and stil tanks way more.

the point of having a large stable tank is, when there are many small webbing fregates. and if u get a big spawn. something that can happen in Serpentis Military Complex. your small shield booster is gona run into trouble quite fast. since you are gona be doing 14,5 m/s

but ofc some pepole will be realy wanting that pimp and dmg.

but for ease of use, cheapness the gist large offers some realy nice options.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-07-02 13:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Earthmother wrote:
yes dmg is lower. but since you dont have 6 launcers, you have the grid to get interdiction nullified sub. with 6 launcers, you need a diffrent system. atleast my experience.

yes the small booster is cheaper in it self. but since you loose so much shield recharge, most of the proposed fittings, uses deadspace hardners. and they run you at a pretty penny. my fit uses cheap and nice t2 hardners. and stil tanks way more.

the point of having a large stable tank is, when there are many small webbing fregates. and if u get a big spawn. something that can happen in Serpentis Military Complex. your small shield booster is gona run into trouble quite fast. since you are gona be doing 14,5 m/s

but ofc some pepole will be realy wanting that pimp and dmg.

but for ease of use, cheapness the gist large offers some realy nice options.



Actually my previous posted fit is obviously changed for some DED with a single med B-type shield booster, guristas rats in DED8 can't get me to cycle more than 2 times every 2 or 3 min, so has a hell of a tank, far more dps witch is also somewhat tank, whatever can't shoot you can't harm you.

But it's a choice, as viable as yours. Yes mine is more expensive but actually I loot my self those mods that cost 0 peanuts to me but a billion to that guys who didn't sold me one ^^

Edit: people tend to think training passive resists is lost time, well it isn't at all, a single passive B-type resist mod is cheapo as hell, saves your cap/PG/CPU for 'important stuff", I've used the B-type invuln worth for a billion isk because as I said, you can loot them. Use a single T2 and You'll see your overall tank will still be more than enough (over 1K dps with med B-Type SB and once again you can loot it)
My 75.5K EHP Tengu tank is for a regular profile against Serpentis rats knowing when you have several different rats (Corelatis, shadow, Core/Corelum) you'll be tanking all dmg types the higher being kin/thermal followed by explosive and then EM. Against simple rats only kin/therm tank gets a wooping 150K EHP -/+ assuming you stand still like a duck, now remove dmg from speed tanking and figure out how much tank you have.

brb
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#20 - 2012-07-02 14:06:58 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:

My 75.5K EHP Tengu tank is for a regular profile against Serpentis rats knowing when you have several different rats (Corelatis, shadow, Core/Corelum) you'll be tanking all dmg types the higher being kin/thermal followed by explosive and then EM. Against simple rats only kin/therm tank gets a wooping 150K EHP -/+ assuming you stand still like a duck, now remove dmg from speed tanking and figure out how much tank you have.


Wait, wait, wait

Are you saying that different Serpentis rats deal different types of damage?

You confused them for Angels.
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