Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You know.. it's really not that hard to understand. Some people want to PvP some of the time and carebear some of the time. Some people have no interest in PvP whatsoever and want to avoid it whenever possible. And these two sets of people make up what.. 80, 90% of EVE? There's a reason only a small fraction of players live in nullsec or low sec. Pretending otherwise, fronting with the usual "omg pvp game suckmahballz bro" crap ignores the reality of the situation.

The existing situation, where PvE requires fits that block PvP ability to seriously participate, creates this issue.

Many PvP fans look for ships with high ISK value to demonstrate their hunting skills. The kill mails get posted so they can boast of their conquests.
PvE pilots know this well enough to not risk these expensive mission boats in places where they have more risk.

Plus there are cheap ganks. The one where the kill mail lists or should list a laundry list of NPC opponents who did all the work in wearing down the target ship. Simply by doing the mission the PvE ship is left unprepared for a confrontation at that point.

No pilot wants to lose an expensive ship that way. Hearing later that anything goes and is fair hardly justifies taking risks like that in their opinion.

OP doesn't think L4 missions are challenging enough

What CCP obviously needs to do is to make all L4 missions as hard as current L5's

Well that's kind of the point, those missions don't favour expensive ships. The problem is the risk/reward for certain activities in Eve is completely ******.

You can run level fives in a small gang of cheaper ships, it just isn't profitable to do so because you can make the same amount of ISK grinding level fours solo in high sec. Plus in high sec you can use a shiny ship because hey, it's high sec.


Well that's nice, but then my argument is not that it wouldn't be nice. My argument is that it's impractical and impossible to implement.

If you read some of the dev blogs around incursion development that was an attempt to get as close as possible to PvP in PvE, it would make sense that for practical reasons that was about as close as they could get.

In terms of server load, they have said numerous times they will not implement sleeper or incursion AI in normal missions due to server load. I very much doubt even more advanced AI and dynamic or scaling missions is going to be better for the server.

I wonder how many of the "but that would be imbalanced in terms of risk vs. reward" posters apply that to changes made to or needed for PvP. The impression I get from reading this topic is that a lot of the PvP-oriented types who are whining about how much of an imbalance high-sec L5s would provide to PvE risk:reward structures would cry bloody murder if high-sec suicide ganking suddenly had real risks instead of losing a cheap, dinky ship and getting a 15 minute "go hide in the corner" timer. I also get the impression that if they would seriously **** and moan if they stood a good chance at losing their little mission whore killer when trying to gun down PvE'ers doing missions in actual PvE fits.

Don't get me wrong, it's basic human nature at its finest, so to speak, to want to shave the dice in your favor, keep yourself top dog, and pretend that your opinion is what really matters in the world. I just think it's a hoot that there are so may PvP'ers dogpiling into the topic to raise the risk:reward flag when many if not most of them sound like they don't want to see it raised anywhere near their precious PvP.

Frankly I'm all for risk:reward, but as I said, the fact is it's basic human nature to minimize risk and maximize reward. Bringing L5s into high-sec, regardless of whether they pay out like L4s or like L5s, isn't going to change that. It won't take much or long before L5s are just as safe as L4s for the various mission runners. Also please note that I deliberately did not ascribe any indication of what degree of safety that is because it's all relative. For a three month old character they're a death trap, but for a three year old character they're generally cake. All the people who talk about how L4s are 100% risk-free have obviously been doing them for too long because they don't remember what it's like to set foot into one at 4-5 months.

Still, here's a suggestion. Bring only the anti-empire L5s into high-sec. Leave the L5s against pirate factions in low-sec. This will, so far as I know, not create any new isk in the economy while guaranteeing the "risks" associated with murdering your standings with other empires. Even at full L5 "payouts" the "reward" from doing L5s in this situation will merely be a redistribution of the isk in the game, and as such they probably won't contribute significantly to the inflation of the isk. If anything the increased influx of tags, meta drops, and salvage should decrease the costs and reduce inflation.

At one point, around the time wormholes were being introduced, CCP staff had mentioned that after integrating the "Sleeper AI" with officer spawns in null-sec they were going to look at integrating them with other NPC-arific areas of the game. So far as I'm aware there hasn't been any further mention of the topic on their part since then.

They tried doing something like this again... if i recall it was called an Incursion

Then they nerf'd that too.

This is exactly what some want, and they're pretty vocal with their dozens alts about it.

Maybe you should try Incursions.