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Two serious questions for the "Highsec Carebear"

Author
Infinitio Krystallos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-07-01 01:33:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinitio Krystallos
Delen Ormand wrote:
ok with being ganked. They accept it as being part of the game. What they don't like is feeling like they're not wanted in the game and that one group of people is trying to drive them out. That's what they're facing now, and I really don't think that's either right or healthy for the game.



I showed a few Forum postings to my Therapist awhile back and she found that player attitude to be extrememly 'not normal' and actually tried to talk me out of playing.

It's a sandbox for people to do whatever they want. And the anti-miner crap is just that. Crap. The occasional surprise gank is no big deal and should be expected. But the pile-on has become so huge and childish I refuse to re-subscribe my 3rd and 4th tooons until CCP seriously does something about wat is absolutely the most negative player attitude on the net. Period.

Oh, and they barely got 40,000 online today...on a Saturday. And sorry but the Diablo 3 debut is now long in the past.

They had better say a few prayers for CCP cause the rats are indeed leaving over this screwed up attitude. 2 of my 4 accounts included.

And none of my toons have even been ganked in 18 months. But, the attitude is indeeed crippling. And should at this point be a huge financial worry to CCP.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-07-01 01:33:23 UTC
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


EVE revolves around ships exploding.


Interesting viewpoint (and definitely OPINION) considering most outside media reporting on the game talk about how it revolves around the "unique player-driven Market".


Said market also revolves around ships exploding. If ships didn't explode, ships & modules wouldn't need replacing, there would be no point to building stuff because nothing was exploding... Do you see where I'm going with this?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#83 - 2012-07-01 01:35:25 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:


--snipped for brevity--
I think some of the behaviour seen on the forums is basically bullying. I'd also bet that you won't get as many replies from miners as you would otherwise because of this. Answering your questions is basically inviting attack.


While I do see some truth in your words there is more to it than just this. There is self-victimization. If you're being bullied - FIGHT BACK. The same tools that a ganker uses to shoot you are the same tools that are available to you to shoot him back.


To some extent, yes. But then you're saying to those people, "listen, you have to pvp" and they feel forced into that, they're likely to quit. Now, sure you could say "they needed to HTFU" and so on, but I think that sometimse that smacks of blaming the victim. Miners that I speak to are generally ok with being ganked. They accept it as being part of the game. What they don't like is feeling like they're not wanted in the game and that one group of people is trying to drive them out. That's what they're facing now, and I really don't think that's either right or healthy for the game.


The "hate" is actually roleplay to most gankers: just like the Minmatar and the Amarr do not like each other. Out of game, I seriously doubt any ganker truly hates all highsec miners, but I would be surprised if a ganked miner feels the same way out-of-game.

I've gate camped and been ganked by gatecamps. Never have I "hated the victims" I shot, but I have despised the ones that gunned me down when I was traveling. If such a hate really exists, I'm afraid it is mostly from the miners towards the gankers as it would be, you know, more realistic...
Infinitio Krystallos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-07-01 01:35:26 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


EVE revolves around ships exploding.


Interesting viewpoint (and definitely OPINION) considering most outside media reporting on the game talk about how it revolves around the "unique player-driven Market".


Said market also revolves around ships exploding. If ships didn't explode, ships & modules wouldn't need replacing, there would be no point to building stuff because nothing was exploding... Do you see where I'm going with this?


OK. Then they are both equally important. But thanks for revealing your myopic view in your poasting.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-07-01 01:36:21 UTC
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
ok with being ganked. They accept it as being part of the game. What they don't like is feeling like they're not wanted in the game and that one group of people is trying to drive them out. That's what they're facing now, and I really don't think that's either right or healthy for the game.



I showed a few Forum postings to my Therapist awhile back and she found that player attitude to be extrememly 'not normal' and actually tried to talk me out of playing.


Taking a game so seriously & letting things happening in a game affect you is not normal & was most likely the reason she tried to talk you out of playing.

Spaceships are serious business, but not that serious.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#86 - 2012-07-01 01:38:34 UTC
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
ok with being ganked. They accept it as being part of the game. What they don't like is feeling like they're not wanted in the game and that one group of people is trying to drive them out. That's what they're facing now, and I really don't think that's either right or healthy for the game.



I showed a few Forum postings to my Therapist awhile back and she found that player attitude to be extrememly 'not normal' and actually tried to talk me out of playing.

It's a sandbox for people to do whatever they want. And the anti-miner crap is just that. Crap. The occasional surprise gank is no big deal and should be expected. But the pile-on has become so huge and childish I refuse to re-subscribe my 3rd and 4th tooons until CCP seriously does something about wat is absolutely the most negative player attitude on the net. Period.

Oh, and they barely got 40,000 online today...on a Saturday. And sorry but the Diablo 3 debut is now long in the past.

They had better say a few prayers for CCP cause the rats are indeed leaving over this screwed up attitude. 2 of my 4 accounts included.

And none of my toons have even been ganked in 18 months. But, the attitude is indeeed crippling. And should at this point be a huge financial worry to CCP.


You hating the "haters"? You a hater too?!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-07-01 01:38:46 UTC
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


EVE revolves around ships exploding.


Interesting viewpoint (and definitely OPINION) considering most outside media reporting on the game talk about how it revolves around the "unique player-driven Market".


Said market also revolves around ships exploding. If ships didn't explode, ships & modules wouldn't need replacing, there would be no point to building stuff because nothing was exploding... Do you see where I'm going with this?


OK. Then they are both equally important. But thanks for revealing your myopic view in your poasting.


It's not short-sighted at all. Think of what would happen to your precious market over time if ships stopped exploding.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Betrinna Cantis
#88 - 2012-07-01 01:43:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Betrinna Cantis
1 I cannot answer that question because I am not a "care bear".
2 I can make as much isk as I want to. It is up to the person(s) around me that doesn't like it to stop me.

3 If I lose the ship I'm in it is because I wasn't paying attention.

Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares.....

Infinitio Krystallos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-07-01 01:51:56 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
ok with being ganked. They accept it as being part of the game. What they don't like is feeling like they're not wanted in the game and that one group of people is trying to drive them out. That's what they're facing now, and I really don't think that's either right or healthy for the game.



I showed a few Forum postings to my Therapist awhile back and she found that player attitude to be extrememly 'not normal' and actually tried to talk me out of playing.


Taking a game so seriously & letting things happening in a game affect you is not normal & was most likely the reason she tried to talk you out of playing.

Spaceships are serious business, but not that serious.


We pay RL money to play the game we want to play.

AND, you guys sure take the miner hatred seriously.

Oh, and you're just stupid in your claim to know what my Therapist thought. Get out.
Infinitio Krystallos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-07-01 01:52:45 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:


EVE revolves around ships exploding.


Interesting viewpoint (and definitely OPINION) considering most outside media reporting on the game talk about how it revolves around the "unique player-driven Market".


Said market also revolves around ships exploding. If ships didn't explode, ships & modules wouldn't need replacing, there would be no point to building stuff because nothing was exploding... Do you see where I'm going with this?


OK. Then they are both equally important. But thanks for revealing your myopic view in your poasting.


It's not short-sighted at all. Think of what would happen to your precious market over time if ships stopped exploding.



It's the childish attitude around it. Again, get out.
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#91 - 2012-07-01 01:57:47 UTC
So anyways... 5 pages I there is barely anyone who actually responded to the questions. Is it because the real highsec dwellers simply adapted and are playing the game or because they do not exist?

I honestly expected something along the lines:

1. Losing a ship should happen under two circumstances: when I make a mistake (vs NPC or player) or when someone invest more effort into ganking me than I invested protecting myself (vs player).

2. I should make enough money in highsec to barely pay for a PLEX on a good month. It makes no sense to me if I could make more, because the price would just shift accordingly since 80% of EVE's player-base (and henceforth the biggest chunk of PLEX customers) is in highsec. This also keeps the higher profit areas of the game relevant. Think about it, if we all could make 1 bil profit a month in highsec with "casual" playing, how long would it take before the minimum price for a PLEX peaks just a little over one bil?

These are actually my personal answers to those questions.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-07-01 01:59:03 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
The "hate" is actually roleplay to most gankers: just like the Minmatar and the Amarr do not like each other. Out of game, I seriously doubt any ganker truly hates all highsec miners, but I would be surprised if a ganked miner feels the same way out-of-game.


I really don't believe it's roleplay. I'm guessing that, like any bullying, it's because there's a group of people seen as an easy target and bullying behaviour is rewarded with positive feedback from the bully's peer group. I also disagree with the word 'hate' here. Kimmie used the word 'derision', which I think is nearer the mark. If you find reason to look down on a person, it makes you feel more powerful. On top of that, theres a lot of positive feedback for those who identify with the anti-miner group. All in all, I'd imagine it's more to do with acceptance from others, which I guess is quite ironic.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#93 - 2012-07-01 01:59:41 UTC
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:


You state how the game is now. What I am interested is how a true carebear wants the game to be AND explain why he/she thinks it would be better.



And why do you want to know these things ? Where is the true intellectual drive ?


The only one that ultimately matters, and the one from which all else is evolved:

Curiosity.

I too, want to hear from some "true hisec bears," on this, by the way.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.

Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-07-01 02:01:06 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
So anyways... 5 pages I there is barely anyone who actually responded to the questions. Is it because the real highsec dwellers simply adapted and are playing the game or because they do not exist?


Like I said, I don't think they have a reason to answer you. You haven't given them any reason to, plus whatever they post is going to be attacked.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-07-01 02:01:20 UTC
Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Taking a game so seriously & letting things happening in a game affect you is not normal & was most likely the reason she tried to talk you out of playing.

Spaceships are serious business, but not that serious.


We pay RL money to play the game we want to play.

AND, you guys sure take the miner hatred seriously.

Oh, and you're just stupid in your claim to know what my Therapist thought. Get out.


As stated earlier, I don't hate miners.

I did not claim to know what your therapist was thinking, but only made a well-educated guess based on your posts. You really are taking this way too seriously. Have you shown your therapist any of the posts you've made? Perhaps you could print out this thread & have her read it.

Does fact that you need to see a therapist over your experiences in a computer game not tell you anything in itself?


Infinitio Krystallos wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
It's not short-sighted at all. Think of what would happen to your precious market over time if ships stopped exploding.



It's the childish attitude around it. Again, get out.


There is no childishness in my argument. The only childishness presented is on your behalf in your inability to see what has been right in front of you since you began to play the game.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Pipa Porto
#96 - 2012-07-01 02:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
So anyways... 5 pages I there is barely anyone who actually responded to the questions. Is it because the real highsec dwellers simply adapted and are playing the game or because they do not exist?

I honestly expected something along the lines:

1. Losing a ship should happen under two circumstances: when I make a mistake (vs NPC or player) or when someone invest more effort into ganking me than I invested protecting myself (vs player).

2. I should make enough money in highsec to barely pay for a PLEX on a good month. It makes no sense to me if I could make more, because the price would just shift accordingly since 80% of EVE's player-base (and henceforth the biggest chunk of PLEX customers) is in highsec. This also keeps the higher profit areas of the game relevant. Think about it, if we all could make 1 bil profit a month in highsec with "casual" playing, how long would it take before the minimum price for a PLEX peaks just a little over one bil?

These are actually my personal answers to those questions.


The reason not many people answered your question is that the HS carebear's honest answer to #1 is

"I'm OK with ganking, so long as it can't happen to me."



Just about everyone else in the thread doesn't fit into the category of people you were asking.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-07-01 02:04:01 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
So anyways... 5 pages I there is barely anyone who actually responded to the questions. Is it because the real highsec dwellers simply adapted and are playing the game or because they do not exist?


A lot of them don't post on the forums. They either don't know about them, couldn't be bothered or don't want to be a part of the community. Hence why a lot of them play solo.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Pipa Porto
#98 - 2012-07-01 02:04:33 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
The "hate" is actually roleplay to most gankers: just like the Minmatar and the Amarr do not like each other. Out of game, I seriously doubt any ganker truly hates all highsec miners, but I would be surprised if a ganked miner feels the same way out-of-game.


I really don't believe it's roleplay. I'm guessing that, like any bullying, it's because there's a group of people seen as an easy target and bullying behaviour is rewarded with positive feedback from the bully's peer group. I also disagree with the word 'hate' here. Kimmie used the word 'derision', which I think is nearer the mark. If you find reason to look down on a person, it makes you feel more powerful. On top of that, theres a lot of positive feedback for those who identify with the anti-miner group. All in all, I'd imagine it's more to do with acceptance from others, which I guess is quite ironic.


You seem confused about the nature of the game you play.



CCP Wrangler wrote:
EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.


Jon Lander wrote:

If you pay attention, and you’ve got your wits about you, you can avoid people coming in and ganking, a survival of the fittest kind of thing, and people are now able to actually make a much better living from mining because of things like Hulkageddon and Burn Jita, because minerals are more expensive.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/06/12/eve-online-interview-betrayal-at-fanfest-burn-jita-virtual-reality-and-the-president-of-iceland/

Jon Lander is the Senior Producer of EvE (He's Soundwave's Boss).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#99 - 2012-07-01 02:06:59 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
So anyways... 5 pages I there is barely anyone who actually responded to the questions. Is it because the real highsec dwellers simply adapted and are playing the game or because they do not exist?


Like I said, I don't think they have a reason to answer you. You haven't given them any reason to, plus whatever they post is going to be attacked.


But why would I attack them? I'm curious because I played in all areas of sec EVE has to offer and that is what shaped my idea of what is a balanced risk/reward system.

I'm curious to know if one who only played in highsec has a significantly different opinion on the matter. (refer to post 91 or my edited OP for my view on the issue)
Shameless Avenger
Can Preachers of Kador
#100 - 2012-07-01 02:11:10 UTC
Private Pineapple wrote:

2. I should be able to make billions per hour without undocking. EVE is unfair because I can't do that.


You know there's a market, do you? Even the goons know it.


"This is the Ninja. He will scan you down; he will salvage your wrecks and there shall be no aggro"