EVE General Discussion

The whole theroycrafting started as soon as some jackass mentioned mining. This thread is about how much you should be able to make, and mining is not a part of that.

And bumping for the win, as mentioned previously. It thwarts aligning.

And nobody's saying that that doesn't work. I know for a fact that it works quite well.

But the reason it does work is that the miners are complicit in their own demise.

You see an unknown ship hanging around the belt, you should be strongly considering leaving that belt.
If someone in local goes GCC, you'd better be warping out of your belt ASAP, because CONCORD's been drawn.

Not taking the fairly obvious hints that a gank is incoming is entirely the Miner's fault.

The miners have been claiming that the Hulk is untankable. We have been showing that specific claim to be false.

We all know that most Hulks in HS are untanked and AFK, but that's not the Hull's fault, now is it?

Right. Because it will convince "external influences" to buff the tank.

That said, the winter update will be interesting, since there's ships with more tank but less (asteroid) gank. Hah.


Soon, we will unironically be telling gankee-criers to "learn to Procurer"

The V skills required to make some of those setups work (and still requiring implants anyway) are not industry character friendly and take months to train.
Those who spent months to get "fundamentals" means that for months they have a lesser income for months and cannot use your fittings for months anyway.

As for the "which is no different than assuming that the gankers will have all V skills" is just the mirror of the farce.
I have yet to see an all V skills miner and also an all V skills gankers.

So, both sides land on Plantet Earth and propose arguments that actually apply to reality.




They don't refuse to organize themselves for increased profit and protection because they are silly.
They refuse because it's expensive AND generally overkill. A fitted Orca is not free nor the account with many months long skills trained to make it buff effectively. Those who go for Orca are really those in for the long haul. Logistic alts are even worse: you tie 2+ accounts into something that in the best conditions will yield zero profit (in the worst, a mining ship will still pop). For the same cost you can take into account losing a ship every now and them, while having 2 more ships bringing in vastly more than what you'll lose with those sporadic losses.




I have done it and like for the rest of EvE, it's not hard. It's boring and annoying. Better not be in position to be ganked than pretend you'll never lose 1 minute of attention D-Spamming for 8 hours a day.




Well, if you get bads crying the game is hard, just straight tell them to stop being bad or quit the game. Saves times, effort and arguments. Unless you are in for argumenting for argument's sake of course .

It is most certainly impossible to tank a hulk to survive a gank, and there is no one who disagrees AND understands math.

The only disagreement is if it nets positive bankroll or not.

I am saying that I have killed enough hulks with half of the best theoreycrafted tank (19k, the best tank is 38k) to know that I would still be making a profit if I was losing twice as many destroyers.

In other words killing a hulk by suiciding 4 ships on it nets a profit of more than 8million, which is how much money it would to double the DPS and therefor kill ANY solo hulk period.

Which again, the EFT warrioring is bullocks. EFT says you cant kill a 19kEHP hulk with 3 destroyers, but clearly it has been done over and over and over.

You seem like you got invested by an Holy Duty to enlighten the masses.

If they can't even survive mining, let them dead. Plenty of more competent people out there to replace them, really.

The problem is that they, as huddled, crying masses*, tend to have pull with game developers (even CCP).

Risk averse people got SW:G to remove all PvP risk (people still whined), and pretty soon that game collapsed.

Miner's have gotten Suicide Ganking nerfed several times in recent memory (Insurance Nerf and a few CONCORD response time buffs), and I'd rather not have EvE go the way of the SW:G.

*Read: Subscriptions

Yeah, duh. Sorry I missed a word after explaining that any ship can be ganked about a dozen times ITT.

A Hulk, properly tanked, with Logistics or Boosts (Orca has 3 highs, and only one is needed for a Yield boost) and a semiconcious pilot*, cannot be profitably ganked. Even without Logistics or Boosts, it's a break even proposition (if your theoretical profit is 100k, a miner's Orca scooping the loot from under you is going to ruin your profitability for a long time).

*Read: Someone who's gonna notice a GCC in local because they aren't yet a Potato.

Yeah, turns out that games with player driven markets that don't have PvP losses get boring pretty quickly cause everyone has everything worth having.


If you really want to cultivate Stockholm syndrome we need to be alternately abusive and not abusive. Something like "You got picked for your mandatory tank inspection again today, but we're gonna let it slide" and let them live.

If we want an effective MiniTrue, you're going to need a lot better mechanisms to impose NewSpeek on the Proles and Outer Party who you're trying to bring under Big Brother's wing.

No. Without the logi and orca boosts you make plenty of money, easily enough to plex your accounts. That's my point. I have done it.

An orca scooping is a can flippers wet dream.

And while the orca boost + logi idea looks good to the naked eye, it comes out to 26 mil an hour in absolute perfect conditions. It might stop the gankers from making money, but now the tables are turned. One screw up on the defenders part and the gankers will get a killmail worthy of hanging on moms fridge.