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Two serious questions for the "Highsec Carebear"

Author
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#321 - 2012-07-02 08:58:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And according to your logic: Drake isn't battlecruiser, it's a moon.
No, you're confusing me with you again.

You're also engaging in a fallacy commonly referred to as “moving the goal posts”.


No, you're the one who compares ship sizes only with sig radius. So, therefore Drake isn't battlecruiser. More like capital and shouldn't be allowed in hisec.
Pipa Porto
#322 - 2012-07-02 09:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And according to your logic: Drake isn't battlecruiser, it's a moon.
No, you're confusing me with you again.

You're also engaging in a fallacy commonly referred to as “moving the goal posts”.


No, you're the one who compares ship sizes only with sig radius. So, therefore Drake isn't battlecruiser. More like capital and shouldn't be allowed in hisec.


What capital has a 285 Base Sig Radius?


By the way, Cane is 240, Harbi 265, and Myrmidon 300 (ouch). Looks like the Drake is firmly a BC.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#323 - 2012-07-02 09:01:43 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
No, you're the one who compares ship sizes only with sig radius.
…because this is what the game mechanics use to determine how large or small a ship is in terms of how easy it is to hit and how well it survives large (or smaller, or same-size) weapons. As it happens, the barges fit perfectly in the cruiser bracket.

Quote:
So, therefore Drake isn't battlecruiser. More like capital and shouldn't be allowed in hisec.
No. At 285m, it fits neatly into the battlecruiser bracket (and would be allowed into highsec regardless since “being a capital ship” isn't a deciding factor for what goes where).
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#324 - 2012-07-02 09:03:21 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
What capital has a 285 Base Sig Radius?


So, you want to use it untanked in combat? Sorry baby, but even PVE would be quite difficult with that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#325 - 2012-07-02 09:04:55 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So, you want to use it untanked in combat? Sorry baby, but even PVE would be quite difficult with that.
Funnily enough, sig-tanking the Drake is one of the better ways of fitting it for PvE.

…and no, even after being (badly) fitted, the Drake still doesn't come close to being a capship.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#326 - 2012-07-02 09:05:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
No, you're the one who compares ship sizes only with sig radius.
…because this is what the game mechanics use to determine how large or small a ship is in terms of how easy it is to hit and how well it survives large (or smaller, or same-size) weapons. As it happens, the barges fit perfectly in the cruiser bracket.


So you can put three Hulks into Orca's SMB? That's an exploit.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#327 - 2012-07-02 09:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So you can put three Hulks into Orca's SMB? That's an exploit.
By the same token, how many Drakes can you put into one?

The Hulk still fits neatly into the cruiser bracket, because that's what every single weapon in the game will treat it as… you know, a rather important consideration since we're discussing its survivability and all (unless you want to place it into the “industrial” category, at which point it once again tanks well in line with — or even above — its class).
Pipa Porto
#328 - 2012-07-02 09:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
What capital has a 285 Base Sig Radius?


So, you want to use it untanked in combat? Sorry baby, but even PVE would be quite difficult with that.


There you go moving the goalposts.

The Hulk is a Cruiser Class ship because its base Sig Radius is similar to all the other Cruiser Class ships. HACs, HICs, etc. Also it's packaged size is the exact same as all the other Cruisers.

The Drake is a BC Class Ship because its base Sig Radius is similar to all the other BC Class ships. BCs and CSes.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#329 - 2012-07-02 09:11:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
By the same token, how many Drakes can you put into one?


One.

So, how do you put three cruiser sized Hulks into Orca's SMB? I'm sure CCP would like to know about this exploit.
I know I can put three cruisers into SMB, but I can only put two Hulks into it before available space runs out.
Pipa Porto
#330 - 2012-07-02 09:13:48 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
By the same token, how many Drakes can you put into one?


One.

So, how do you put three cruiser sized Hulks into Orca's SMB? I'm sure CCP would like to know about this exploit.
I know I can put three cruisers into SMB, but I can only put two Hulks into it before available space runs out.


Tippia never claimed you could fit 3 Hulks in there. All ships of a class have different assembled sizes.

How you coming on that 2km/s Cloaked Ship and those 6 further 80k EHP cruisers?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#331 - 2012-07-02 09:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
One.
So it's not a battlecruiser, but rather one size down — something along the lines of a cruiser.

…and again, the volume is completely irrelevant as far as determining the survival characteristics of the ship. The barges take damage as cruisers and they tank like cruisers, just like you'd expect. It's tanking well in line with its class, no matter what. No amount of fallacies from you will change this fact.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#332 - 2012-07-02 09:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
Tippia never claimed you could fit 3 Hulks in there.


Yes, she did:

Tippia wrote:
As it happens, the barges fit perfectly in the cruiser bracket


So, could you two finally tell how someone can put three Hulks into Orca's SMB? CCP must be interested to hear about this.

Tippia wrote:
So it's not a battlecruiser, but rather one size down — something along the lines of a cruiser.


First you say Drake is battlecruiser and then you claim it's cruiser. Roll
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#333 - 2012-07-02 09:20:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Yes, she did:
Tippia wrote:
As it happens, the barges fit perfectly in the cruiser bracket
…except of course, that I didn't, largely because you cut out the context that explains the bracket in question.

So please quote the bit where I said that you could fit 3 Hulks in an Orca.

Quote:
First you say Drake is battlecruiser and then you claim it's cruiser.
Nope. First I say that the Drake is a battlecruiser, and then I say that the Hulk is a cruiser. Again, context matters — we're talking about the Hulk here, remember?
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#334 - 2012-07-02 09:25:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So please quote the bit where I said that you could fit 3 Hulks in an Orca.


You claim it's cruiser sized. Let's use Arbitrator in this example because it's well known T1 cruiser hull.

Orca's SMB: 400k m3
Arbitrator: 120k m3
3 * 120k = 360k m3

400k m3 > 360k m3
Pipa Porto
#335 - 2012-07-02 09:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
So please quote the bit where I said that you could fit 3 Hulks in an Orca.


You claim it's cruiser sized. Let's use Arbitrator in this example because it's well known T1 cruiser hull.

Orca's SMB: 400k m3
Arbitrator: 120k m3
3 * 120k = 360k m3

400k m3 > 360k m3


As it happens, the Arbitrator's Sig Radius is 282. I believe that that is, according to you, a Moon or a Capital ship.


The Hulk is a Cruiser because it packages into 10k m3. Same as every other Cruiser.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#336 - 2012-07-02 09:29:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
You claim it's cruiser sized.
It is. 150m sig radius, right in the cruiser bracket.
Now, could you please quote the bit where I said that you could fit 3 Hulks in an Orca?


…and ruby, you're reading the wrong row. That's the scan res (but in mm), not the sig res. P
The Arbitrator is a svelte 130m.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#337 - 2012-07-02 09:30:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
As it happens, the Arbitrator's Sig Radius is 282. I believe that that is, according to you, a Moon or a Capital ship.


Try again, troll.

Tippia wrote:
Now, could you please quote the bit where I said that you could fit 3 Hulks in an Orca?


I don't have to because I can put three cruiser sized hulls into SMB. Why should Hulk be any different?

And you haven't explained how three Hulks in SMB exploit works. I'm sure devs want to know about this.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#338 - 2012-07-02 09:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I don't have to
Yes you do, because you claimed that I said you could.
So can you please quote where I said that?

Quote:
I can put three cruiser sized hulls into SMB. Why should Hulk be any different?
Because it has a different volume, much like how many of the other ships in the cruiser bracket have differing volumes.

Quote:
And you haven't explained how three Hulks in SMB exploit works. I'm sure devs want to know about this.
You're confusing me with you again…
Pipa Porto
#339 - 2012-07-02 09:39:41 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
As it happens, the Arbitrator's Sig Radius is 282. I believe that that is, according to you, a Moon or a Capital ship.


Try again, troll.


Honest mistake. I read the wrong entry.

Gonna rectify some of your mistakes, like your "Most Cruisers have 80k EHP" or your "2km/s Cloaked ship"? Or, by your logic, are you a troll for making an assertion that's provably false?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#340 - 2012-07-02 09:44:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Because it has a different volume, much like how many of the other ships in the cruiser bracket have differing volumes.


It's way bigger than cruiser hulls.
It doesn't have 100k EHP buffer.
It has worse align time than plated Abaddon.

Doesn't seem to fit into cruiser class.