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Two serious questions for the "Highsec Carebear"
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Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2012-07-01 23:48:43 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Are you real? Your craptastic hulk fits neuter any kind of income.

It's vastly better to have a "decent" tank hulk that will die to 3 catalysts but will yield 30% more a day than your horripilant fit that only serves as bait.

Getting ganked 5 times a year but making 15B > zero ganks but making 10B.


You can choose to sacrifice tank for yield. That is your choice.

Jorma is claiming that it is impossible to tank a Hulk effectively, despite the fact that he has been proven wrong so many times that his bringing up his claims again is dishonest.


The point is, this is not the 11000th shoddy "miners should die" thread.

Between you and Tippia you manage to go offtopic and turn every thread in the same drivel, the same tired setups, the same pointless theorycraft of stuff neither miners nor gankers do.

BTW I have tried one of these setups posted in a previous thread: it's so ridicolous it takes longer to be able to use it than to get effective with a faction fit tier 2 battleship.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#222 - 2012-07-01 23:50:50 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Against those Taloi, they effectively do as previously shown.


With your fail tank fit it's 38,7k EHP against Void, not 120k.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#223 - 2012-07-01 23:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Alaya Carrier wrote:
The point is, this is not the 11000th shoddy "miners should die" thread.

Between you and Tippia you manage to go offtopic and turn every thread in the same drivel, the same tired setups, the same pointless theorycraft of stuff neither miners nor gankers do.
No, the point is that the whole “onoz, Hulk cannot be protected” line that miners always trot out as soon as risks in highsec are discussed is fundamentally ill-informed and that the risk is of the miner's own making more than anything.

Jorma Morkkis wrote:
With your fail tank fit it's 38,7k EHP against Void, not 120k.
Void comes out of blasters — a weapon system famous for not being counted among the alpha weapons. As such, it's very susceptible to RR, at which point a single logi can extend the Hulk's EHP to more than 120 (closer to 130, actually, and we're still not even using the rather obvious and sensible choice of including gang bonuses).

So yes, yes it does, and as such it's quite safe from two ships even in 0.5.
Pipa Porto
#224 - 2012-07-01 23:53:55 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…or am I concluding from your lack of response to the question that, in your mining clone, you're mainly going to fly the primary mining ship — a ship, as it happens, that benefits from the implant in question.


Why I should use that implant just to get your stupid tank to fit if I don't need that implant with any other ship I fly?

Tippia wrote:
At any rate, the point remains: two ships isn't nearly enough to kill a tanked hulk, even in 0.5, and no amount of red herrings from your end will change this.


Easily with 2x Talos with T2 guns and mods in 0.5.


So, you're CHOOSING not to fit your ship to counter a spectacularly unlikely gank. Well, that's your choice.

If it fits, it fits. You're the one posting Officer fit, Slaved T1 Cruisers (you still owe 6 of them), a 2km/s Cloaked ship, and a Cheap, 2 person gank of an RRed Hulk. Why are you complaining about a single fitting implant?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#225 - 2012-07-01 23:57:31 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Against those Taloi, they effectively do as previously shown.


With your fail tank fit it's 38,7k EHP against Void, not 120k.


You're the only one who's said that number. Against Void, the fit at the end of this post, when repped for the 20s duration of a Gank, has 39k EHP, and is repped for a total of 89,040 EHP.

You can do similar things with un-implanted Hulks.


[Hulk, Tank Fit]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Internal Force Field Array I

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Inherent Implants 'Squire' Engineering EG-604

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#226 - 2012-07-02 00:00:43 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
So, you're CHOOSING not to fit your ship to counter a spectacularly unlikely gank. Well, that's your choice.

If it fits, it fits. You're the one posting Officer fit, Slaved T1 Cruisers (you still owe 6 of them), a 2km/s Cloaked ship, and a Cheap, 2 person gank of an RRed Hulk. Why are you complaining about a single fitting implant?


Since you and Drop are experts of ganking and killing: how many logi pilots you know would spend hours protecting miners in HISEC just because there's 0.00002% chance that someone shoots that Hulk. I know you null people protect your bo... miners with supers, but is there really logi pilots who would do it in HISEC.
Pipa Porto
#227 - 2012-07-02 00:01:18 UTC
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Alaya Carrier wrote:
Are you real? Your craptastic hulk fits neuter any kind of income.

It's vastly better to have a "decent" tank hulk that will die to 3 catalysts but will yield 30% more a day than your horripilant fit that only serves as bait.

Getting ganked 5 times a year but making 15B > zero ganks but making 10B.


You can choose to sacrifice tank for yield. That is your choice.

Jorma is claiming that it is impossible to tank a Hulk effectively, despite the fact that he has been proven wrong so many times that his bringing up his claims again is dishonest.


The point is, this is not the 11000th shoddy "miners should die" thread.

Between you and Tippia you manage to go offtopic and turn every thread in the same drivel, the same tired setups, the same pointless theorycraft of stuff neither miners nor gankers do.

BTW I have tried one of these setups posted in a previous thread: it's so ridicolous it takes longer to be able to use it than to get effective with a faction fit tier 2 battleship.


Hey, being at the top of the mining game takes effort. OH SAY IT ISN'T SO!

Miners can choose how well protected they want to be. If you get into a ship before you're able to fit it to easily perform the duties you want it to do, that's your choice. You might want to fly it in such a way that you can compensate for your lack of fitting skills.

Tippia and I are simply pointing out that a Hulk can be tanked against all reasonably likely ganks.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#228 - 2012-07-02 00:02:49 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
So, you're CHOOSING not to fit your ship to counter a spectacularly unlikely gank. Well, that's your choice.

If it fits, it fits. You're the one posting Officer fit, Slaved T1 Cruisers (you still owe 6 of them), a 2km/s Cloaked ship, and a Cheap, 2 person gank of an RRed Hulk. Why are you complaining about a single fitting implant?


Since you and Drop are experts of ganking and killing: how many logi pilots you know would spend hours protecting miners in HISEC just because there's 0.00002% chance that someone shoots that Hulk. I know you null people protect your bo... miners with supers, but is there really logi pilots who would do it in HISEC.


Sorting out your mining protection fleet is your job. And there are services who do exactly that.

And no, people in Nullsec don't do mining defense fleets because the miners in Null aren't brain dead and can protect themselves (by escaping).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#229 - 2012-07-02 00:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Since you and Drop are experts of ganking and killing: how many logi pilots you know would spend hours protecting miners in HISEC just because there's 0.00002% chance that someone shoots that Hulk. I know you null people protect your bo... miners with supers, but is there really logi pilots who would do it in HISEC.
Why would there be any difference between nullsec and lowsec low or highsec. What you're talking about is the difference between organised and disorganised.

As luck would have it, there are quite a few organised logi pilots (they pretty much have to be — it comes with the territory).

edited for clarity. Roll
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#230 - 2012-07-02 00:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Pipa Porto wrote:
You can do similar things with un-implanted Hulks.


Yeah, putting 100+ million ISK navy MAPC into Hulk is very good idea...

Tippia wrote:
As luck would have it, there are quite a few organised logi pilots (they pretty much have to be — it comes with the territory).


Yeah, in nullsec. But we are talking about hisec in this thread.

Pipa Porto wrote:
Miners can choose how well protected they want to be. If you get into a ship before you're able to fit it to easily perform the duties you want it to do, that's your choice. You might want to fly it in such a way that you can compensate for your lack of fitting skills.


My main can't use that fit with over 30 million SP...
Pipa Porto
#231 - 2012-07-02 00:09:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
You can do similar things with un-implanted Hulks.


Yeah, putting 100+ million ISK navy MAPC into Hulk is very good idea...

Tippia wrote:
As luck would have it, there are quite a few organised logi pilots (they pretty much have to be — it comes with the territory).


Yeah, in nullsec. But we are talking about hisec in this thread.


1) No fit that I have seriously suggested has anything that expensive in it.

2) You brought up Nullsec, and people in HS have access to the exact same tools to escape as people in Nullsec have.

Same tank, no Implants.

[Hulk, Tank Fit 2]

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Internal Force Field Array I

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#232 - 2012-07-02 00:12:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Yeah, putting 100+ million ISK navy MAPC into Hulk is very good idea...
Eh, no. He's saying that you can extend the Hulks life with logis in the same way without going the implant + CDFE route (edit: or, as per above, by reducing yoru fitting needs in other ways).

Quote:
Yeah, in nullsec. But we are talking about hisec in this thread.
Fine. Why would there be any difference between nullsec and highsec. What you're talking about is still the difference between organised and disorganised.

As luck would have it, there are quite a few organised logi pilots (they pretty much have to be — it comes with the territory).
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#233 - 2012-07-02 00:14:13 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
1) No fit that I have seriously suggested has anything that expensive in it


Yes, you did. "Same tank" + "without implants". Only way to get "true" from that is to replace T2 MAPC with Navy MAPC.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#234 - 2012-07-02 00:14:45 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Yes, you did. "Same tank" + "without implants". Only way to get "true" from that is to replace T2 MAPC with Navy MAPC.
…or reduce your fitting needs elsewhere.
Pipa Porto
#235 - 2012-07-02 00:15:16 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
1) No fit that I have seriously suggested has anything that expensive in it


Yes, you did. "Same tank" + "without implants". Only way to get "true" from that is to replace T2 MAPC with Navy MAPC.


Wrong

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#236 - 2012-07-02 00:21:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…or reduce your fitting needs elsewhere.


Using metal 4 suitcase (around 16 million) is very good idea... Not!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#237 - 2012-07-02 00:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Using metal 4 suitcase (around 16 million) is very good idea... Not!
…there are more places where it can be reduced, you know. The reason I say “you know“ is because you've already been shown how. Btw, changing to a different meta suitcase doesn't save you any power grid (which is what you're low on without the implant).
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#238 - 2012-07-02 00:25:11 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:

2) You brought up Nullsec, and people in HS have access to the exact same tools to escape as people in Nullsec have.


I know right ...

* Miners have the whole zone to themselves and can dock on the rare occasion that someone new shows up in Local.
* Would be jihadists have all the time they want, under the protection of CONCORD, to seek out the juiciest target and pick the best time to attack.

Fascinating.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Pipa Porto
#239 - 2012-07-02 00:25:29 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…or reduce your fitting needs elsewhere.


Using metal 4 suitcase (around 16 million) is very good idea... Not!


Jita Says...

3.5m, aka Cheaper than your T2 Strips.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#240 - 2012-07-02 00:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Sentamon wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

2) You brought up Nullsec, and people in HS have access to the exact same tools to escape as people in Nullsec have.


I know right ...

* Miners have the whole zone to themselves and can dock on the rare occasion that someone new shows up in Local.
* Would be jihadists have all the time they want, under the protection of CONCORD, to seek out the juiciest target and pick the best time to attack.

Fascinating.


Everyone gets to choose what aggression mechanics they want to play under.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto