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Why are these forums so bad?

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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#61 - 2012-07-01 14:38:08 UTC
The absolute worst part on this forums has to be that you can't even click the present forum section on the top. If I want to refresh the General Discussion, for example, I have to go to EVE Communication Center and then move back, or refresh the page, or click a thread in GD and then I can use the GD-link on top. Not sure why CCP decided it was a good idea to not like you click the present page in the forum tree at top, like all normal forums, but hey, whatever keeps us from using them I guess..

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-07-01 15:46:48 UTC
The problem is that years ago the forum moderators started allowing 'Minor' things to slide by. Some players took advantage of it and became bolder which then incited others to do the same. Eventuality turning into a major problem of epidemic proportions. For years this sub forum has been referred to as 'Troll City'. It's about time it was cleaned up and it needs to be hit hard by moderation.. If players don't want to abide by the Forum rules, then they need to be banned, plain and simple.


Doc Severide wrote:

ISD's are a bunch of jerks. Period. Always whining "This is your last warning" in the chats for as you say, very minor things. Very Anal bunch, some of them I truely despise...

I'm sure people probably despise you and say you're a jerk as well.

InternetSpaceship wrote:
The ISD team is a group of player volunteers. Not just players, but the worst kind of players. The kind of players that live, eat, and breathe Eve. They take this game deadly seriously, and if they can't exert power over you in game for not taking it as seriously as they do, they can and will exert that power here. This is your problem.

The same thing is probably said about your corp and alliance.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#63 - 2012-07-01 15:53:09 UTC
Wrong wrong wrong, the EvE players are assholes and that is why the forums are that way. Why does EvE collect assholes, because they took a good thing too far.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#64 - 2012-07-01 16:05:57 UTC
I find it very telling that the main defense against the OPs observation is, "the other forums are worse".

No one has said anything positive about the EVE-O forums. Just that they are not as bad as others. This, to my mind, adds credence that the OPs opening remarks are truer than most want to admit.

Mr Epeen Cool
Aktonn
#65 - 2012-07-01 16:06:59 UTC
Troll or no, the OP has a valid point but i think it only really applies to GD. Perhaps CCP should think about creating a sub-forum to send all the needless whines, boring troll posts and the just plain nonsensical **** posts to.

I dread to think what a new player or a prospective new player thinks when he first stumbles upon GD because its not, in my experience, a fair reflection of the EVE player base.

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#66 - 2012-07-01 16:08:04 UTC
Only GD is terrible, other sections are just as fine as any other forum.

Think of GD as the "Junkyard", where people post pointless **** and troll threads, and it's actually entertaining.

.
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#67 - 2012-07-01 16:09:04 UTC
The epeen soap opera is an unfortunate facet of the game that plays itself out on the forums. Like it or hate it, simple fact is it's not going away.

Bring your possibles.
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-07-01 16:17:21 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

The same thing is probably said about your corp and alliance.


Doesn't make it any less true.

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-07-01 16:30:58 UTC
InternetSpaceship wrote:
The ISD team is a group of player volunteers. Not just players, but the worst kind of players. The kind of players that live, eat, and breathe Eve. They take this game deadly seriously, and if they can't exert power over you in game for not taking it as seriously as they do, they can and will exert that power here. This is your problem.


You dislike metagaming?
Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-07-01 16:36:24 UTC
Misanth wrote:
The absolute worst part on this forums has to be that you can't even click the present forum section on the top. If I want to refresh the General Discussion, for example, I have to go to EVE Communication Center and then move back, or refresh the page, or click a thread in GD and then I can use the GD-link on top. Not sure why CCP decided it was a good idea to not like you click the present page in the forum tree at top, like all normal forums, but hey, whatever keeps us from using them I guess..


I may be misunderstanding you, but if you scroll up above the grey box that encloses all this board stuff but below the grey of the header menu, there's a little breadcrumb navigation thing... looks something like:

Home > Eve Forums > Eve Communication Center > Eve General Discussion > Whatever the thread topic is

You can click on any of those to go straight to that section.

Sorry if you meant something different, in which case just ignore what I said :)
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#71 - 2012-07-01 16:48:00 UTC
Delen Ormand wrote:
Misanth wrote:
The absolute worst part on this forums has to be that you can't even click the present forum section on the top. If I want to refresh the General Discussion, for example, I have to go to EVE Communication Center and then move back, or refresh the page, or click a thread in GD and then I can use the GD-link on top. Not sure why CCP decided it was a good idea to not like you click the present page in the forum tree at top, like all normal forums, but hey, whatever keeps us from using them I guess..


I may be misunderstanding you, but if you scroll up above the grey box that encloses all this board stuff but below the grey of the header menu, there's a little breadcrumb navigation thing... looks something like:

Home > Eve Forums > Eve Communication Center > Eve General Discussion > Whatever the thread topic is

You can click on any of those to go straight to that section.

Sorry if you meant something different, in which case just ignore what I said :)


That's exactly the thing that doesnt' work.

When you click the "Whatever the thread topic is" it's just grey/not clickable. The same applies if you are in 'Home > Eve Forums > Eve Communication Center > Eve General Discussion' and want to just refresh the EVE General Discussion. You have to LEAVE GD, open 'Whatever thread' and click yourself back again, or press F5.

Normal forums (actually every single one I know of), will allow you to click your current thread/forum section, and it will refresh the spot you currently are at. These forums have no such feature, in fact, they force you to do something much more anoying and takes longer.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Emperor Maurice
Karbon Alliance
#72 - 2012-07-01 18:42:31 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Delen Ormand wrote:
Misanth wrote:
The absolute worst part on this forums has to be that you can't even click the present forum section on the top. If I want to refresh the General Discussion, for example, I have to go to EVE Communication Center and then move back, or refresh the page, or click a thread in GD and then I can use the GD-link on top. Not sure why CCP decided it was a good idea to not like you click the present page in the forum tree at top, like all normal forums, but hey, whatever keeps us from using them I guess..


I may be misunderstanding you, but if you scroll up above the grey box that encloses all this board stuff but below the grey of the header menu, there's a little breadcrumb navigation thing... looks something like:

Home > Eve Forums > Eve Communication Center > Eve General Discussion > Whatever the thread topic is

You can click on any of those to go straight to that section.

Sorry if you meant something different, in which case just ignore what I said :)


That's exactly the thing that doesnt' work.

When you click the "Whatever the thread topic is" it's just grey/not clickable. The same applies if you are in 'Home > Eve Forums > Eve Communication Center > Eve General Discussion' and want to just refresh the EVE General Discussion. You have to LEAVE GD, open 'Whatever thread' and click yourself back again, or press F5.

Normal forums (actually every single one I know of), will allow you to click your current thread/forum section, and it will refresh the spot you currently are at. These forums have no such feature, in fact, they force you to do something much more anoying and takes longer.


Exactly. One of the many reasons why CCP need to totally recreate these awful forums.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-07-01 23:47:16 UTC
InternetSpaceship wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

The same thing is probably said about your corp and alliance.


Doesn't make it any less true.


Bottom line, you're wrong.

I applaud the ISD and the CCL. They need to crack down on these forums even more and this sub-forum needs to be hit the hardest. If players don't want to abide by the forum rules, then they better not post in these forums. If they decide to post and not follow the rules, then that post needs be moderated. If players continue to disregard the forum rules, those players need to be perma-banned.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Constable Chang
#74 - 2012-07-01 23:55:55 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
InternetSpaceship wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

The same thing is probably said about your corp and alliance.


Doesn't make it any less true.


Bottom line, you're wrong.

I applaud the ISD and the CCL. They need to crack down on these forums even more and this sub-forum needs to be hit the hardest. If players don't want to abide by the forum rules, then they better not post in these forums. If they decide to post and not follow the rules, then that post needs be moderated. If players continue to disregard the forum rules, those players need to be perma-banned.


The problem is that the moderation the ISD is able to perform is far too coarse grained to be effective. Locking threads and perma-banning are very blunt instruments. Certain other forums offer moderators a wide range of tools covering a broad spectrum of punitive measures against posters. Posting priviledges revoked for varying lengths of time, being flagged as a bad poster so that everyone can see (theres a lot to be said for public humiliation), other forum members can view others 'rap sheets'. Its all there, and the CCP team know about them (since Something Awful forums are clearly well known by the CCP team).
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#75 - 2012-07-02 00:08:22 UTC
Constable Chang wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
InternetSpaceship wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

The same thing is probably said about your corp and alliance.


Doesn't make it any less true.


Bottom line, you're wrong.

I applaud the ISD and the CCL. They need to crack down on these forums even more and this sub-forum needs to be hit the hardest. If players don't want to abide by the forum rules, then they better not post in these forums. If they decide to post and not follow the rules, then that post needs be moderated. If players continue to disregard the forum rules, those players need to be perma-banned.


The problem is that the moderation the ISD is able to perform is far too coarse grained to be effective. Locking threads and perma-banning are very blunt instruments. Certain other forums offer moderators a wide range of tools covering a broad spectrum of punitive measures against posters. Posting priviledges revoked for varying lengths of time, being flagged as a bad poster so that everyone can see (theres a lot to be said for public humiliation), other forum members can view others 'rap sheets'. Its all there, and the CCP team know about them (since Something Awful forums are clearly well known by the CCP team).




You appear to be operating under some false assumptions. It has been clearly stated, many many times, that no ISD member can dish out bans of any kind. In fact, their level of moderation is far from coarse, they are the tip of the blade. They can edit and delete posts, they can also move and lock threads, but they can never ban. That decision lies solely in the hands of CCP.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2012-07-02 00:15:59 UTC
To answer the OP, because you are part of it.

That was real easy, and it didn't take 4 pages of discussion. What do I win?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#77 - 2012-07-02 00:18:36 UTC
^ You did win, I was waiting for that to be posted. That or becuase your mom posts here. or Becuase you and your mom post here together.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
InternetSpaceship
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-07-02 13:25:54 UTC  |  Edited by: InternetSpaceship
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
InternetSpaceship wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

The same thing is probably said about your corp and alliance.


Doesn't make it any less true.


Bottom line, you're wrong.

I applaud the ISD and the CCL. They need to crack down on these forums even more and this sub-forum needs to be hit the hardest. If players don't want to abide by the forum rules, then they better not post in these forums. If they decide to post and not follow the rules, then that post needs be moderated. If players continue to disregard the forum rules, those players need to be perma-banned.


Nuh uh.

Besides, doesn't matter what people think about my alliance. We aren't in charge of moderating the forums (we should be, though).

The ISD is on a power trip against players they don't like, and they exercise the only power they have against them in vengeance. In this case, locking threads and editing posts. Notice that a few posters seem to have immunity when using "personal insults" against certain other members, whereas others have their posts edited and threads locked the very moment they call someone a mean name.

It's the carebear soft-touch no-risk environment those same players are desperate to bring into the game itself. I love that in-game, we can wreak havoc on Jita with no consequence, pull off massive scams and heists, and literally hunt each other down like animals, but on the forums, we can't even call each other dumb without the Authorities giving us a lecture and a slap on the hand. What game is this again?

Official Recruiter for GoonSwarm Corporation.

If you paid isk to get into GoonSwarm, you were probably scammed.  If you had the foresight to save the name of your scammer, let me know and I'll do what I can to help you.
Emperor Maurice
Karbon Alliance
#79 - 2012-07-02 14:53:29 UTC
InternetSpaceship wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
InternetSpaceship wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

The same thing is probably said about your corp and alliance.


Doesn't make it any less true.


Bottom line, you're wrong.

I applaud the ISD and the CCL. They need to crack down on these forums even more and this sub-forum needs to be hit the hardest. If players don't want to abide by the forum rules, then they better not post in these forums. If they decide to post and not follow the rules, then that post needs be moderated. If players continue to disregard the forum rules, those players need to be perma-banned.


Nuh uh.

Besides, doesn't matter what people think about my alliance. We aren't in charge of moderating the forums (we should be, though).

The ISD is on a power trip against players they don't like, and they exercise the only power they have against them in vengeance. In this case, locking threads and editing posts. Notice that a few posters seem to have immunity when using "personal insults" against certain other members, whereas others have their posts edited and threads locked the very moment they call someone a mean name.

It's the carebear soft-touch no-risk environment those same players are desperate to bring into the game itself. I love that in-game, we can wreak havoc on Jita with no consequence, pull off massive scams and heists, and literally hunt each other down like animals, but on the forums, we can't even call each other dumb without the Authorities giving us a lecture and a slap on the hand. What game is this again?


I'd rather a goon locking my threads than some ISD grunt any day.
Indeterminacy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-07-02 19:02:50 UTC
Emperor Maurice wrote:
I've been posting in many forums over the years: the Something Awful forums, the battle.net forums, MMORPG.com and all the other comment boards of IGN and massively.com - but Eve Online has one of the most disgusting forums on the internet. Let me tell you why:

- Arguments repeat themselves, over, and over again: buff Hulks, nerf hulks, buff titans, nerf titans, ban Mittani, free Mittani....
- The ISD team are extremely hostile, and threads are being locked like crazy - for only minor offences
- 99% of the time, forum bans apply to only a single character (I would know). For a game which encourages multi-box play, this is absolutely ludicrous.
- People like me, make threads complaining about other ****** threads - and end up getting even more threads locked.

This is how you fix the above issues:

- Loosen the ISDs' involvement in forum moderation
- Ban IPs, accounts - both in game and out of game
- Have a clear set of rules which are displayed in either a pop-up or bold menu link - not on a hidden wiki page

Note: If you lock this thread, these forums will burn and shrivel. Listen to my ideas, and then maybe you devs will have a better understanding of your own players' ideas - streamlining the feedback, input and development process.


You scrubs get the forums you deserve.