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Estimated L4 ISK/Hour?
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Kadeyoo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-07-02 01:17:01 UTC
Gotta love it. We're getting this thread like every week.

I'd just make a screenshot to show you where the "Search forums" bar is, but I'm too lazy. (See what I did here?)
stoicfaux
#22 - 2012-07-02 01:20:49 UTC
Watooshi Makoochji wrote:

We finished the "Cargo Delivery" mission in 44 minutes total (maybe a bit less) and this was our take:

Bounties: 1,603,125 (apiece) = 3,206,250 total
Loot: 2,790,293.76 (total at rock bottom buy order prices)
Total: 5,996,543.76 total
Est. ISK / HR (Total * 1.4): 8,395,161.264
[44 minutes is 0.733 hours. 1 / 0.733 = ~1.4
-=-=-=-=-=-



Dusts off spreadsheet:
Cargo Delivery in a Cheetah:
* 3m 06s travel time
* 22s mission time
At 800 isk/lp conversion rate, for 2,277 lp plus one million in rewards is roughly 49 million an hour minus time to cash out and sell LP.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Kalli Brixzat
#23 - 2012-07-02 02:31:30 UTC
drdxie wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
The Tengu will certainly speed up clearance times on some missions. The Tengu is NOT the best choice when it comes to certain missions (Worlds Collide, The Blockade, Massive Attack, etc...). Anything with a ton of incoming damage and elite webber frigates is going to be a problem for you in a Tengu. In those cases, you are better served using a CNR or Navy Scorpion. The larger tank and higher DPS output w/ lower skills that those boats have.

Key point is that you will need more than one boat to do anything well in this game.

As for the point of this thread, if you're not making north of 25M isk/hour, you are doing something wrong. It's likely a result of low skills and poor mods. It could also be a failure to do proper research on the missions before doing them.



If your Tengu battles in ANY mission you have fit it wrong. You don't have to gimp tank to make a Tengu shien in any mission. I can tank any mission full room aggro in my tengu which has 4 CN BCS's and 6 HML's and 1 explosion radius rig and 2 cap rigs. Adding more rigs is not going to make you insta pop frigs any quicker. I can stand sill and not die, well that is if I don't get neuted/nos'd. You clearly have no idea how to fit and fly a Tengu.

Just as a matter of interest, I dusted of my hulk and orca and just mining with 1 hulk and orca for support for one hour then refining and selling the minerals will get you round 70mil/hr. Crazy stuff..


I hear you...and think you are outright making up some of what you're writing above. That said, I could not care less about your opinion or experiences. I know that my own experience has showed me that a CNR is a better boat for certain missions thanmy Tengu is. The end.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#24 - 2012-07-02 02:41:58 UTC
drdxie wrote:
Just as a matter of interest, I dusted of my hulk and orca and just mining with 1 hulk and orca for support for one hour then refining and selling the minerals will get you round 70mil/hr. Crazy stuff..

I don't believe it. well either that or you have some crazy buy orders in local. at jita sell prices max skills, 2 MLU, michis, highwall, and orca with mindlink I see ~40m/hour tops in highsec. pretty jaw dropping for mining I will say, but not quite 70m/hour, and that isn't accounting for suicide ganks or mining mostly dead roids.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-07-02 03:02:58 UTC
drdxie wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
The Tengu will certainly speed up clearance times on some missions. The Tengu is NOT the best choice when it comes to certain missions (Worlds Collide, The Blockade, Massive Attack, etc...). Anything with a ton of incoming damage and elite webber frigates is going to be a problem for you in a Tengu. In those cases, you are better served using a CNR or Navy Scorpion. The larger tank and higher DPS output w/ lower skills that those boats have.

Key point is that you will need more than one boat to do anything well in this game.

As for the point of this thread, if you're not making north of 25M isk/hour, you are doing something wrong. It's likely a result of low skills and poor mods. It could also be a failure to do proper research on the missions before doing them.



If your Tengu battles in ANY mission you have fit it wrong. You don't have to gimp tank to make a Tengu shien in any mission. I can tank any mission full room aggro in my tengu which has 4 CN BCS's and 6 HML's and 1 explosion radius rig and 2 cap rigs. Adding more rigs is not going to make you insta pop frigs any quicker. I can stand sill and not die, well that is if I don't get neuted/nos'd. You clearly have no idea how to fit and fly a Tengu.

Just as a matter of interest, I dusted of my hulk and orca and just mining with 1 hulk and orca for support for one hour then refining and selling the minerals will get you round 70mil/hr. Crazy stuff..


why not 2 hulks?

I should buy an Ishtar.
Rhealee
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2012-07-03 14:59:58 UTC
I think running highsec missions is flat out stupid.

I have been running angel and serpentis missions like 2 nights a week and the lvl 4's make me 80 to 100m an hour, while the 3's profit 70 to 80.

Running in hostile space will slow you down and its worth dropping a bill or 2 for mission ships, but a corp mate making 5b week out here grinding them out.

Im a terrible carebear loosing 3x more ships to pve than pvp, pissed through so many machs it mkes me sick to think about it.

It just seems that pirate missions is the way to go and not many people do it any more.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#27 - 2012-07-03 23:27:05 UTC
heh according to the ingame cargo value estimations I made 60m in loot in 30m doing Enemies abound 3/5, 4/5 was a bit less, and 70m in loot in 5/5. add 9k lp and several mil in rewards per mission. wonder how much of that I will actually see when I go and sell the loot. although if I look at my loot can nearly 1/2 the value is in tags, and from my understanding the Est. price is some funky "average" price, and my lp sheet assumes I'm buying tags at jita sell prices, that could push it up a bit?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
drdxie
#28 - 2012-07-04 00:34:10 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
drdxie wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
The Tengu will certainly speed up clearance times on some missions. The Tengu is NOT the best choice when it comes to certain missions (Worlds Collide, The Blockade, Massive Attack, etc...). Anything with a ton of incoming damage and elite webber frigates is going to be a problem for you in a Tengu. In those cases, you are better served using a CNR or Navy Scorpion. The larger tank and higher DPS output w/ lower skills that those boats have.

Key point is that you will need more than one boat to do anything well in this game.

As for the point of this thread, if you're not making north of 25M isk/hour, you are doing something wrong. It's likely a result of low skills and poor mods. It could also be a failure to do proper research on the missions before doing them.



If your Tengu battles in ANY mission you have fit it wrong. You don't have to gimp tank to make a Tengu shien in any mission. I can tank any mission full room aggro in my tengu which has 4 CN BCS's and 6 HML's and 1 explosion radius rig and 2 cap rigs. Adding more rigs is not going to make you insta pop frigs any quicker. I can stand sill and not die, well that is if I don't get neuted/nos'd. You clearly have no idea how to fit and fly a Tengu.

Just as a matter of interest, I dusted of my hulk and orca and just mining with 1 hulk and orca for support for one hour then refining and selling the minerals will get you round 70mil/hr. Crazy stuff..


I hear you...and think you are outright making up some of what you're writing above. That said, I could not care less about your opinion or experiences. I know that my own experience has showed me that a CNR is a better boat for certain missions thanmy Tengu is. The end.



So what exactly am I making up?

Daniel - 2 hulks will mean I have to run back and forward to station or jetcan and am susceptible to ganking. My orca has a shield RR on it and the hulk has a high ehp, so if I am not insta popped, 2 attempts a long time ago and none successful., I can rep the hulk while concord tens to the gankers
Chainsaw, I will go recheck my actual's, but I mined concentrated veldspar for 1 hr, refined it and then went to sell it all in the same system, got round 68 mil for it.. so I lied.. it wasn't 70, but I will go do it again and see just how bad my maths.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#29 - 2012-07-04 04:58:01 UTC
not trying to say you are wrong, but according to eft/my spreadhseet a hulk will mine 2899m3/sec . and I'll admit I was shocked as hell to see 40m/hour mining in highsec, and that my spreadhseet is a little out of date but I just can't imagine 70m/hour

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
souhyeahright
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-07-04 07:31:37 UTC  |  Edited by: souhyeahright
With an AB tengu, at a very conservative 2k ISK/LP in a 0.5, for missions in the agent system*:

Serpentis Assault: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 4m in reward/bounties; 264m/hr
Dread Pirate Scarlet: 4 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 7m in reward/bounties; 375m/hr
Sansha Blockade: 6 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 9m in rewards/bounties; 270m/hr
Angel Pirate Invasion: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 6k LP plus 6m in rewards/bounties; 216m/hr
Worlds Collide: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 5m in rewards/bounties; 276m/hr

There are a number of similarly good blitzing missions but I cba to go check their payouts. While it can be higher on occasion, 200m/hr is a decent baseline income for highsec missioning; higher incomes are certainly attainable if you have a particularly good conversion or are willing to set up buy orders for tags. However, your efficiency will be limited by only having one agent in system and being sent round the houses to neighboring systems. This can be avoided by moving out of highsec: good lowsec hubs have 3-4 agents in single stations and will rarely send you out of system, in addition to giving increased LP payouts. If you're playing actively, running L4 missions for ISK in anything bar an ab tengu or mwd machariel is pretty inefficient. Using a propless battleship and killing every NPC to get their bounties and loot/salvage is amazingly inefficient.

* For out of system missions, increase completion times by two minutes per jump and recalculate isk/hr accordingly.
WaterTempleFiend en Marland
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-07-04 08:21:55 UTC
i would say 20mil plus, bounties, salvage and lp exchange stuff you know

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=59576&find=unread - Dat mac heat up thread
Kalli Brixzat
#32 - 2012-07-04 08:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalli Brixzat
souhyeahright wrote:
With an AB tengu, at a very conservative 2k ISK/LP in a 0.5, for missions in the agent system*:

Serpentis Assault: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 4m in reward/bounties; 264m/hr
Dread Pirate Scarlet: 4 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 7m in reward/bounties; 375m/hr
Sansha Blockade: 6 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 9m in rewards/bounties; 270m/hr
Angel Pirate Invasion: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 6k LP plus 6m in rewards/bounties; 216m/hr
Worlds Collide: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 5m in rewards/bounties; 276m/hr

There are a number of similarly good blitzing missions but I cba to go check their payouts. While it can be higher on occasion, 200m/hr is a decent baseline income for highsec missioning; higher incomes are certainly attainable if you have a particularly good conversion or are willing to set up buy orders for tags. However, your efficiency will be limited by only having one agent in system and being sent round the houses to neighboring systems. This can be avoided by moving out of highsec: good lowsec hubs have 3-4 agents in single stations and will rarely send you out of system, in addition to giving increased LP payouts. If you're playing actively, running L4 missions for ISK in anything bar an ab tengu or mwd machariel is pretty inefficient. Using a propless battleship and killing every NPC to get their bounties and loot/salvage is amazingly inefficient.

* For out of system missions, increase completion times by two minutes per jump and recalculate isk/hr accordingly.


No doubt...200M/hour for hi-sec mission running. Totally. And, while we're at it, lets pretend its 4 years ago when 2000 isk/LP was still possible.

Posts like this really chap my hide.

Disclaimer: The above assumes you are solo (no alts).
Disclaimer2: There are certain corps to mission for (2, if I recall correctly) wherein the LP Store contains items capable of going north of 2k/LP.
Watooshi Makoochji
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-07-04 10:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Watooshi Makoochji
Very interesting thread folks, thanks for all the serious replies. Some excellent advice and resources in here :)

The real beauty of EVE is -> there are a LOT of ways to make ISK. One of my groups pilots (obviously this is just a forum alt) has on occasion made upwards of 4 billion on one freighter gank Shocked (and yeah I know that is actaully low in the suicide gank hall of fame)

I have also once or twice when clearing a 3/10 DED site in a lowly Arbitrator or Rupture got drops like a low Grade slave (~27m at current).

What I gather about Level 4 mission 'ecologies' based on this thread:

1. Its rather complicated

2. Peoples estimates vary dramatically, though some people may: not know what they are talking about / be lying / not have up-to-date estimates based on recent game balance changes, or otherwise have made errors or not figured in certain variable (e.g., as one of the early posters pointed out, I totally left out the Mission rewards and LP conversions in my estimates).

3. Having said that, L4 mission rewards somewhere between 20m and 200m ISK per hour are 'typical" Lol

Obviously patches & expansions can change things rather dramatically, but I almost get the impression that the background maths are fluctuated by the devs on a semi-regular basis. Let alone the market dynamics . . .

Ah well, its all fun and games!
souhyeahright
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-07-04 11:22:00 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:

No doubt...200M/hour for hi-sec mission running. Totally. And, while we're at it, lets pretend its 4 years ago when 2000 isk/LP was still possible.

Posts like this really chap my hide.

There are, right now, at least 11 items from 16 different empire corporations with good agents in highsec that reliably yield over 2k isk/lp if you're buying your tags from sell orders. The best two conversions that I am aware of currently give 10.8k and 6.2k ISK/LP, respectively; like I said, 2k ISK/LP is a very conservative figure. There are seven items that yield well over 2k ISK/LP even if you just dump them onto buy orders, with the buy orders being large enough to sink several million LP at once.

As for the chapping of your hide, I suspect it may actually have been caused by spending too much time sitting in your raven earning a woeful pittance.
stoicfaux
#35 - 2012-07-04 15:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
souhyeahright wrote:
With an AB tengu, at a very conservative 2k ISK/LP in a 0.5, for missions in the agent system*:

Serpentis Assault: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 4m in reward/bounties; 264m/hr
Dread Pirate Scarlet: 4 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 7m in reward/bounties; 375m/hr
Sansha Blockade: 6 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 9m in rewards/bounties; 270m/hr
Angel Pirate Invasion: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 6k LP plus 6m in rewards/bounties; 216m/hr
Worlds Collide: 5 minutes from acceptance to turn-in, 9k LP plus 5m in rewards/bounties; 276m/hr


Serpentis Assault:
Tengu: 5m43s, travel: 1m50s, mission: 3m53s (~143M isk/hour, LP is 62% of income)
Mach: 6m05s, travel: 1m48s, mission: 4m17s (~218M isk/hour, LP is 77% of income)

Dread Pirate Scarlet:
Arty Mach: 6m05s, travel: 4m02s, mission: 2m03s, (~300M isk/hour plus an 8M implant, LP 56%, Bounties 33%)

Angel Blockade:
Tengu: 7m02s, travel 1m46s, mission: 5m16s, (~207M isk/hour, LP is 67%)

Angel Pirate Invasion:
Tengu: 6m36s, travel: 1m52s, mission: 4m44s (~175M isk/hour, LP is 71%)
Mach (kill all): 11m36s, travel: 1m46, mission: 9m50s (~155M isk/hour, LP is 53%)

Worlds Collide:
Tengu: 9m23s, travel: 3m26s, mission: 5m57s (~155M isk/hour, LP is 79%)


Quote:
There are a number of similarly good blitzing missions but I cba to go check their payouts. While it can be higher on occasion, 200m/hr is a decent baseline income for highsec missioning; higher incomes are certainly attainable if you have a particularly good conversion or are willing to set up buy orders for tags. However, your efficiency will be limited by only having one agent in system and being sent round the houses to neighboring systems. This can be avoided by moving out of highsec: good lowsec hubs have 3-4 agents in single stations and will rarely send you out of system, in addition to giving increased LP payouts. If you're playing actively, running L4 missions for ISK in anything bar an ab tengu or mwd machariel is pretty inefficient. Using a propless battleship and killing every NPC to get their bounties and loot/salvage is amazingly inefficient.

* For out of system missions, increase completion times by two minutes per jump and recalculate isk/hr accordingly.

I can't speak for the low-sec aspects, but this ^^. And travel time really does suck.

My only concern would be whether the Faction Warfare changes (i.e. the discounts) will diminish the isk/LP conversion rate for standard mission running.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-07-05 07:07:57 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
No doubt...200M/hour for hi-sec mission running. Totally. And, while we're at it, lets pretend its 4 years ago when 2000 isk/LP was still possible.


2k isk/hr? No problem. Not with caldari navy, but no problem. In fact, one of those items is my primary source of income in case of emergency.

Watooshi Makooch wrote:
What I gather about Level 4 mission 'ecologies' based on this thread:

1. Its rather complicated


Not at all. Problem is, the vast majority of people go down the path of least resistance and mission for caldari navy. Result? Something like 350 isk/lp conversion rate. Do a wee bit of research and you can easily bounce this to 1.5k+ without even leaving caldari space. More if you go for even more exotic corps. There's really nothing complicated about it, there's just the amount of dedication you invest into it.

Quote:
2. Peoples estimates vary dramatically, though some people may: not know what they are talking about / be lying / not have up-to-date estimates based on recent game balance changes, or otherwise have made errors or not figured in certain variable (e.g., as one of the early posters pointed out, I totally left out the Mission rewards and LP conversions in my estimates).


50M/hr isn't that hard, if you don't get **** missions (I hate drones now that they removed the loot). Chain Scarlet, Angel Extravaganza or World Collide and that can rocket up to 100M+ in any decent ship (say, decently fit CNR or Machariel; don't expect it to be that easy in a stock Raven or Domi).

Quote:
Obviously patches & expansions can change things rather dramatically, but I almost get the impression that the background maths are fluctuated by the devs on a semi-regular basis. Let alone the market dynamics . . .


More than the patches, the amount of people doing certain corp, coupled with the demand for a certain item is what sets the price. Determine what the market wants and what the cheapest way of getting that supply is. That's really all there is to it.


Do note, though, that I only view missions as "emergency income" of sorts. The missions' main advantage isn't the amount of money you get, but the steady stream of it. If you'll be doing mission, you can rely on X cash per hour. If you'll be exploring, you can go literally weeks without a decent drop, then a few billion isk in a matter of minutes (or not at all, if you're really unlucky). Kinda like mining, except with missiles/guns :)
Xyla Vulchanus
Players vs. EVE
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2012-07-05 16:43:45 UTC
Watooshi Makoochji wrote:
Buddy and I are fiddling around trying to come up with some estimated ISK/Hr earning rates for Level 4 Hisec missions. We got one guy in a dps boat able to solo most if not all L4s; one guy with minimal salvaging skills in a noctis.

We finished the "Cargo Delivery" mission in 44 minutes total (maybe a bit less) and this was our take:

Bounties: 1,603,125 (apiece) = 3,206,250 total
Loot: 2,790,293.76 (total at rock bottom buy order prices)
Total: 5,996,543.76 total
Est. ISK / HR (Total * 1.4): 8,395,161.264
[44 minutes is 0.733 hours. 1 / 0.733 = ~1.4
-=-=-=-=-=-

We sold the loot immediately for the cheapo Buy order prices. Assuming we were to cache it, move it to a hub and place sell orders with a proper Trader toon (lower fees and tax) I'd guess the loot totals would go up by at least 2.5.

Projections for Slower Loot Sale
Loot *2.5 = 6,975,734.4
Projected Total: 10,181,984.4
ISK / HR (Total *1.4): 14,254,778.16

So, we are coming up with estimated Level 4 ISK/Hr earning rates of at least 8.4m/hour (4.2 apiece for both pilots in the duo) and potentially as high as 14.3m/hour (~7m apiece).

What do you L4 mission running experts think of those estimates? Extreme low ball, reasonable mid-range ballpark, or too high?


Sweet Jesus Christ, don't do anything in this game for 7m isk per hour! You'd be better off going to null sec and ratting or running sanctums or running exploration sites in low sec or even just running about in null with a salvager cleaning out T2 wrecks. Even of you get popped a few times you'll still make more than 7m an hour.

Whatever you do has to be worth more than simply spending £35 on a plex, otherwise it's just depressing :(
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-07-05 17:24:05 UTC
souhyeahright wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:

No doubt...200M/hour for hi-sec mission running. Totally. And, while we're at it, lets pretend its 4 years ago when 2000 isk/LP was still possible.

Posts like this really chap my hide.

There are, right now, at least 11 items from 16 different empire corporations with good agents in highsec that reliably yield over 2k isk/lp if you're buying your tags from sell orders. The best two conversions that I am aware of currently give 10.8k and 6.2k ISK/LP, respectively; like I said, 2k ISK/LP is a very conservative figure. There are seven items that yield well over 2k ISK/LP even if you just dump them onto buy orders, with the buy orders being large enough to sink several million LP at once.

As for the chapping of your hide, I suspect it may actually have been caused by spending too much time sitting in your raven earning a woeful pittance.

confirming that there are in fact items with higher conversion rates. i just ran the numbers on one of my favorite items and came to ~3050 isk/LP

I should buy an Ishtar.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#39 - 2012-07-06 09:36:53 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
souhyeahright wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:

No doubt...200M/hour for hi-sec mission running. Totally. And, while we're at it, lets pretend its 4 years ago when 2000 isk/LP was still possible.

Posts like this really chap my hide.

There are, right now, at least 11 items from 16 different empire corporations with good agents in highsec that reliably yield over 2k isk/lp if you're buying your tags from sell orders. The best two conversions that I am aware of currently give 10.8k and 6.2k ISK/LP, respectively; like I said, 2k ISK/LP is a very conservative figure. There are seven items that yield well over 2k ISK/LP even if you just dump them onto buy orders, with the buy orders being large enough to sink several million LP at once.

As for the chapping of your hide, I suspect it may actually have been caused by spending too much time sitting in your raven earning a woeful pittance.

confirming that there are in fact items with higher conversion rates. i just ran the numbers on one of my favorite items and came to ~3050 isk/LP



Numbers like those are extremely dependant on local markets unless its a more exotic lp store.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#40 - 2012-07-06 10:33:59 UTC
mama guru wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
souhyeahright wrote:
Kalli Brixzat wrote:

No doubt...200M/hour for hi-sec mission running. Totally. And, while we're at it, lets pretend its 4 years ago when 2000 isk/LP was still possible.

Posts like this really chap my hide.

There are, right now, at least 11 items from 16 different empire corporations with good agents in highsec that reliably yield over 2k isk/lp if you're buying your tags from sell orders. The best two conversions that I am aware of currently give 10.8k and 6.2k ISK/LP, respectively; like I said, 2k ISK/LP is a very conservative figure. There are seven items that yield well over 2k ISK/LP even if you just dump them onto buy orders, with the buy orders being large enough to sink several million LP at once.

As for the chapping of your hide, I suspect it may actually have been caused by spending too much time sitting in your raven earning a woeful pittance.

confirming that there are in fact items with higher conversion rates. i just ran the numbers on one of my favorite items and came to ~3050 isk/LP



Numbers like those are extremely dependant on local markets unless its a more exotic lp store.

all of the involved items have stable prices and low price spans across the major trade hubs if that's what you mean.

I should buy an Ishtar.
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