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The use of Reactive Armor Hardeners

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Matuk Grymwal
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Pandemic Legion
#101 - 2013-03-13 20:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Matuk Grymwal
I've been musing over using the RAH for caps in WH fights. The thing that kills it for me is the resist adjustment behaviour is pretty sucky. Even in moderate sized engagements you'll easily be getting all four damage types, so you'll be stuck with the stock 15/15/15/15 split. Even with the lack of stacking you're still better with an EANM. This all stems from the adjustment ignoring how much damage you're taking of a specific type, so if you take huge amounts of kin/therm from a Moros, but a small amount of exp damage from lokis, the RAH balances against therm/Kim/exp evenly. Now if the adjustment took into account the proportion of damage of each type then it would be good. So in the Moros case you get a mostly kin/therm profile with a tiny amount of exp.

The other annoyance is the RAH getting stuck on a resist profile. This is less of an issue as you can cycle the mod to reset it, but I would prefer that it continued to adjust.
Alsyth
#102 - 2013-03-18 13:56:08 UTC
Matuk Grymwal wrote:
I've been musing over using the RAH for caps in WH fights. The thing that kills it for me is the resist adjustment behaviour is pretty sucky. Even in moderate sized engagements you'll easily be getting all four damage types, so you'll be stuck with the stock 15/15/15/15 split. Even with the lack of stacking you're still better with an EANM. This all stems from the adjustment ignoring how much damage you're taking of a specific type, so if you take huge amounts of kin/therm from a Moros, but a small amount of exp damage from lokis, the RAH balances against therm/Kim/exp evenly. Now if the adjustment took into account the proportion of damage of each type then it would be good. So in the Moros case you get a mostly kin/therm profile with a tiny amount of exp.

The other annoyance is the RAH getting stuck on a resist profile. This is less of an issue as you can cycle the mod to reset it, but I would prefer that it continued to adjust.


I'm pretty sure RAH adapt differently deping on how much damage you take.

I did several tests and while I did not manage to understand exactly how RAH works, I got these results:

Absolution (scorch) + warriors II hitting my loki: switch to 42-3-0-15 resistance.
But Absolution with scorch only: switch to 30-30-0-0

This module is still a mystery for me.
JD No7
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#103 - 2013-03-18 14:23:21 UTC
Our tests showed it works in tandem with your current resists - ie you take laser damage and your resists are 60 80, it'll balance them to 85 85 or whatever.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#104 - 2013-03-18 15:27:39 UTC
Alsyth wrote:
Matuk Grymwal wrote:
I've been musing over using the RAH for caps in WH fights. The thing that kills it for me is the resist adjustment behaviour is pretty sucky. Even in moderate sized engagements you'll easily be getting all four damage types, so you'll be stuck with the stock 15/15/15/15 split. Even with the lack of stacking you're still better with an EANM. This all stems from the adjustment ignoring how much damage you're taking of a specific type, so if you take huge amounts of kin/therm from a Moros, but a small amount of exp damage from lokis, the RAH balances against therm/Kim/exp evenly. Now if the adjustment took into account the proportion of damage of each type then it would be good. So in the Moros case you get a mostly kin/therm profile with a tiny amount of exp.

The other annoyance is the RAH getting stuck on a resist profile. This is less of an issue as you can cycle the mod to reset it, but I would prefer that it continued to adjust.


I'm pretty sure RAH adapt differently deping on how much damage you take.

I did several tests and while I did not manage to understand exactly how RAH works, I got these results:

Absolution (scorch) + warriors II hitting my loki: switch to 42-3-0-15 resistance.
But Absolution with scorch only: switch to 30-30-0-0

This module is still a mystery for me.


Yep, there is some degree of taking incoming damage type intensity into account, but it's still a bit mysterious.

I like the module, if only its cap use was sensible...
Alsyth
#105 - 2013-03-20 03:17:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Alsyth
JD No7 wrote:
Our tests showed it works in tandem with your current resists - ie you take laser damage and your resists are 60 80, it'll balance them to 85 85 or whatever.


Not the case with my test:

I was in a Loki, so base resists were 97-88-86-85 before switch, and against an Absolution shooting scorch+warriors (so a damage imput of roughly 500-100-0-100) the RAH switched to 40-10-0-10 (+/-5 on each).

After the RAH stabilized, the resists were 98-88-84-84. Definitely not aiming towards even resistances, or it would have switched to something like 0-30-0-30.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#106 - 2013-03-20 04:38:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Inkarr Hashur
Alsyth wrote:
JD No7 wrote:
Our tests showed it works in tandem with your current resists - ie you take laser damage and your resists are 60 80, it'll balance them to 85 85 or whatever.


Not the case with my test:

I was in a Loki, so base resists were 97-88-86-85 before switch, and against an Absolution shooting scorch+warriors (so a damage imput of roughly 500-100-0-100) the RAH switched to 40-10-0-10 (+/-5 on each).

After the RAH stabilized, the resists were 98-88-84-84. Definitely not aiming towards even resistances, or it would have switched to something like 0-30-0-30.


And yet in my latest round of testing when I sit at 0 m/s and let a Sleepless Preserver (check that damage profile, almost 100% Kin/Exp) hit me at his preferred orbit range for his full damage, my RAH shifted resistances like this:

edit: oh wow I messed that up. Fixing my huge error.

So sitting still, letting Mr. Preserver do full damage against me, the RAH reacted to damage by shifting between two diffferent profiles (this I blame on the 18 second missile volley confusing the RAH with alternating cycles of no missile damage). It was pretty lucky that I had my armor phasing skill trained to level 1, so that the resulting 9 second RAH cycles lined up with the volleys.

My legion switched between these two resistance sets every RAH cycle:
EM Therm Kin Exp
74 78 80 86
72 78 82 87

The RAH fed between 25 and 30% into Kinetic, 23 and 29% into EM, and it alternated the ~5% between thermal and exp (even though these resists needed no help on my legion whatsoever, being much higher than EM and Kin in my fit). When it had a cycle of no missile damage, some resists went into kin/exp, and when seeing a cycle of only gun damage, some went back to EM/Therm. So the RAH reacted to the damage it was seeing AFTER mitigation by the legion's resistances. Not unresisted damage. So its clear that the cycles of gun-only damage was a distraction to the RAH in this case. I need to explain why there was such a high amount of EM resist.

I had not reset the RAH from earlier when clearing the sleeper wave. Yes, unprofessional, I know. Poor judgement. So there was residual EM resist. So we see the RAH never diverted all that EM away into Kin/Exp, despite the fact that the guns were doing piddly damage to me.

Now I want to address something that occurs to me only now. It should not have been possible for me to see the RAH shift resistances this heavily, as it only moves 6% every cycle. Or is it the RAH can move 6% from EACH resist type per cycle? That's a fairly significant amount.

I then afterburned into orbit around the Preserver and webbed him down. This completely negated all EM/Therm damage as his guns never touched me. Only his missiles could hit me.

At this point the RAH finally diverted all resist away from EM/Therm, putting 43% into Kin and 17% into exp. Odd, as this kept my Exp resist at 86% while my Kin was down at 84%. I wonder if there is some kind of weighting going on behind the scenes? There should definitely have been more in kin and less in exp, this module conceptually, should keep the final Kin/Exp resistances even in this situation. I'm not certain how long I let this run but it should have been several minutes before I got bored, and killed the Preserver to collect my loot and salvage.