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Hints and Tips for a Worm Hole novice - A Request

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Barrak
The Painted Ones
#1 - 2012-06-29 12:24:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrak
Hi,

First of all, I am a complete novice when it comes to Worm Holes. BUT I do want to spend a considerable amount of time on rectifying this.

I am planning on using my alt (cloaky prober 4/4/4/4) to just explore WH space for a while, starting in the next few days. Then, well.... assuming it all goes as well as it sounds from you good people in this forum, then I'd look to join a WH corp and make ISK and help out where i can, all the while enjoying another aspect of EvE that I have not experienced......... well.... that is the plan anyhow.

I am reading through this thread 'Wormhole Failblog Edition' and it is providing a great source of information, at least for me it is, though I guess for most of you it's a great source of amusement :)

I have also read through the manual listed at the top of the thread by Lorkin Desal

As a novice, what I am looking for is a list of hints and tips that you experienced people are willing to share with a new chap. Obviously I'm not looking for trade secrets nor am I, at this stage, looking for advanced tips on living in WH space, though, if the thread works out nicely then why not?

There may not be a huge amout of tips and it may only consist of tips/rules from null sec... ie don't warp directly to gates etc and make lots of BM's, BUT you are the guys to tell me that.

Regards


Barrak

fake edit: If you propose a tip, could you please also be kind enough to explain why.... even if it seems incredibly obvious.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#2 - 2012-06-29 12:34:16 UTC
Ah!, those worm holes...

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-06-29 12:55:41 UTC
Keep exploring and shrug off your losses and continue.


Your chances of survival are always boosted the more faction gear is on your ship, heavily improves your odds if you happen to encounter the darker elements that reside within holes. When you pop into a fresh WH, its always best to speak up in local first to announce your presence and that you mean them no harm and your just a simple explorer.

If you start off in a WH like this they are less likely to be hostile at may chat to you a bit... Or let you run their sites. I once let a team of new WH explorers mine my grav that was about to expire due to lack of my attention, they all left fuller for the experience and thanked me in local.

Just don't fear us, we are all generally just great big teddy bears at heart.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-06-29 15:39:42 UTC
-Find some sort of a mapping software that will allow you to create a visual representation of your scanned w-space chain.
-Learn sig sizes and sig strengths, this will expedite your scanning immensely.
-D-scan, d-scan and d-Scan. Really, every system you open up into d-scan for a POS with a Force Field and then find the moon its on. This is good practice for d-scanning.
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#5 - 2012-06-29 18:54:54 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
-Find some sort of a mapping software that will allow you to create a visual representation of your scanned w-space chain.
-Learn sig sizes and sig strengths, this will expedite your scanning immensely.
-D-scan, d-scan and d-Scan. Really, every system you open up into d-scan for a POS with a Force Field and then find the moon its on. This is good practice for d-scanning.



I assume that there is already 'some sort of sortware' already out there, but it's up to me to do some work? Blink

Can I please ask for you to expand upon the sig sizes/strengths a little more.

D-scan...... yup, I got that message loud and clear.

THank you
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-06-29 19:13:49 UTC
Barrak wrote:
Gnaw LF wrote:
-Find some sort of a mapping software that will allow you to create a visual representation of your scanned w-space chain.
-Learn sig sizes and sig strengths, this will expedite your scanning immensely.
-D-scan, d-scan and d-Scan. Really, every system you open up into d-scan for a POS with a Force Field and then find the moon its on. This is good practice for d-scanning.



I assume that there is already 'some sort of sortware' already out there, but it's up to me to do some work? Blink

Can I please ask for you to expand upon the sig sizes/strengths a little more.

D-scan...... yup, I got that message loud and clear.

THank you



For mapping the chains there are multiple web tools. Such as siggy, http://www.wormnav.com/, http://wh-space.wiadvice.com/

Sig strengths is better explained on wormnav and wiadvice, but it basically goes like this. All sigs in w-space range from size 10 being the highest and size 2.2 being the lowest. There are formulas on wormnav and other sites that allow you to figure out how your skills, ship, ship fitting, probe type and implants all contribute to the signature strenght. However, the rule of thumb is to throw out one probe and set it to 32AU, position it in such a way that its the same distance to as many sigs as possible. All sigs that have the highest strength (%) are size 10, all the lowest ones will probably be size 2.2, those that have half the strength are size.

The caveat is that there is no telling which system will have what sig size, you can stumble into a system with size 10 sigs only (static, couple of crappy ladars and a few k162s) or you can get into a system that does not have any 2.2. The trick is to keep observing and noting and soon you will have a hunch.

Lastly about d-scan, learn the AU distances, so when you d-scan you can pinpoint not just the direction of the object but also the range of it. Set up an overview with control towers, pos modules, moons and force fields only. When you d-scan towards the POS, you can then reduce the angle and scan again, rinse repear till you get down to 30 degree scan, then switch to this new overview and viola you will narrow down the pos to a single moon or just a few moons.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#7 - 2012-06-29 19:39:55 UTC
Consider your ship lost the moment you set foot in it. When you explore w-space, you WILL lose a ship at some point. Just keep that in mind.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Cheesy Feet
The Hells Bells Club
#8 - 2012-06-29 23:31:21 UTC
Best advice - download and spend a few days reading this - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6479
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#9 - 2012-06-30 00:21:37 UTC
Read that twice last night and again today.

Also read this one. I had the old version but this one is new: http://fiercewebs.com/arcdragon/EverythingWormhole109.pdf

Thanks for the tips chaps... please keep 'em coming... if there is more that is.

Regards
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#10 - 2012-06-30 09:46:40 UTC
With the recent changes to timers, did the 30second timer for jumping through a wormhole change?

Regards
Vjorn Angannon
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#11 - 2012-06-30 10:49:34 UTC
Barrak wrote:
With the recent changes to timers, did the 30second timer for jumping through a wormhole change?

Regards


There are three timers you need to be aware of when traversing wormholes; Session Change timer, Invulnerability timer, and Polarity Timer.

Session Change timer: I shall assume that this is the timer you are referring to in your question. This was changed over a period of time from 30 seconds down to the now 10 seconds.

Invulnerability timer: If you have done any sort of pvp (and since you are in RvB...I assume you have Smile ), then you should be familiar with this 60 second timer. When you enter a system through a wormhole, use this period of time to your advantage! i.e. bookmark your exit, hit d-scan, plan escape route if bubble camp is up (even if it is just jumping back through).....which leads us to the timer that gets most people killed....

Polarity timer: In a nutshell, if you jump through a wormhole, wait out your session timer and immediately jump back through the same wormhole....you incur a 4m 30s polarity timer that will NOT allow you to make a third jump through the same wormhole until that timer has expired. This timer starts upon your first jump through the worm hole.

Additionally, because this timer start upon your first jump, if you jump through a wormhole, wait two minutes, then jump back through the same wormhole, by the time your session timer is over with and you attempt to jump a third time, you will find that you still have about a 2 m 20s polarity timer.

However! You can jump through wormhole A, proceed to wormhole B and and go through that, wait 10s and return through wormhole B. At this point you have polarity on wormhole B, but can still return through wormhole A....and if it was longer than 4m 30s....you have no polarity timers at all, until you jump through A again.

Confusing??? Learn this timer intimately!
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-06-30 11:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: joes Bazooka
Vjorn Angannon wrote:
Barrak wrote:
With the recent changes to timers, did the 30second timer for jumping through a wormhole change?

Regards


There are three timers you need to be aware of when traversing wormholes; Session Change timer, Invulnerability timer, and Polarity Timer.

Session Change timer: I shall assume that this is the timer you are referring to in your question. This was changed over a period of time from 30 seconds down to the now 10 seconds.

Invulnerability timer: If you have done any sort of pvp (and since you are in RvB...I assume you have Smile ), then you should be familiar with this 60 second timer. When you enter a system through a wormhole, use this period of time to your advantage! i.e. bookmark your exit, hit d-scan, plan escape route if bubble camp is up (even if it is just jumping back through).....which leads us to the timer that gets most people killed....

Polarity timer: In a nutshell, if you jump through a wormhole, wait out your session timer and immediately jump back through the same wormhole....you incur a 4m 30s polarity timer that will NOT allow you to make a third jump through the same wormhole until that timer has expired. This timer starts upon your first jump through the worm hole.

Additionally, because this timer start upon your first jump, if you jump through a wormhole, wait two minutes, then jump back through the same wormhole, by the time your session timer is over with and you attempt to jump a third time, you will find that you still have about a 2 m 20s polarity timer.

However! You can jump through wormhole A, proceed to wormhole B and and go through that, wait 10s and return through wormhole B. At this point you have polarity on wormhole B, but can still return through wormhole A....and if it was longer than 4m 30s....you have no polarity timers at all, until you jump through A again.

Confusing??? Learn this timer intimately!




Ohh i do love how people see white square boxes on one side and get all clammy and panic and seem to forget how to count to 4mins.


EDIT: cause i noobed up my post
MadbaM
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-06-30 13:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: MadbaM
The best advise if your just starting out is not to bother with a POS what you do is get an orca strap on a shield tank and run sites using your drones. Take advantage of the cargo space and load up everything your going to need for a week long trip and plenty of cap charges. To stay safe constantly speak in local telling people the site your in and to stay away this will keep people from killing you as your running sites.

For this to work your orca must be named "I'm not Bait"

Good look and be sure to tell me how you get on.
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#14 - 2012-06-30 14:06:03 UTC
In relation to the timers.... Yes, it was the 30 second to 10 second one I was refering too... similar to undocking at a station.

Just so I understand this one clearly, once I jump through a Wormhole, I will have a 60 second cloak counter? Assuming I wanted to head straight back through the Wormhole, I'd have to wait at least 10 seconds before jumping?


In relation to the 4 minute timer, I want to give an example based on your comment and see that I understand if that is okay?

If the timer starts the FIRST time I use the gate, then if I jump through and wait for more than 4 minutes, I could in theory go back through the gate and then return with no waiting? I could do this but this would restart another 4 minute timer.

Regards

Barrak
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#15 - 2012-06-30 14:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrak
Gnaw LF wrote:
For mapping the chains there are multiple web tools. Such as siggy, http://www.wormnav.com/, http://wh-space.wiadvice.com/

Sig strengths is better explained on wormnav and wiadvice, but it basically goes like this. All sigs in w-space range from size 10 being the highest and size 2.2 being the lowest. There are formulas on wormnav and other sites that allow you to figure out how your skills, ship, ship fitting, probe type and implants all contribute to the signature strenght. However, the rule of thumb is to throw out one probe and set it to 32AU, position it in such a way that its the same distance to as many sigs as possible. All sigs that have the highest strength (%) are size 10, all the lowest ones will probably be size 2.2, those that have half the strength are size.

The caveat is that there is no telling which system will have what sig size, you can stumble into a system with size 10 sigs only (static, couple of crappy ladars and a few k162s) or you can get into a system that does not have any 2.2. The trick is to keep observing and noting and soon you will have a hunch.

Lastly about d-scan, learn the AU distances, so when you d-scan you can pinpoint not just the direction of the object but also the range of it. Set up an overview with control towers, pos modules, moons and force fields only. When you d-scan towards the POS, you can then reduce the angle and scan again, rinse repear till you get down to 30 degree scan, then switch to this new overview and viola you will narrow down the pos to a single moon or just a few moons.


I'm going to have a read of the websites you mentioned. I am still confused as to what you are refering too. I'm sure it will fall into place, but you have been very patient already so I don't want to ask for a further explanation.Ugh


Regards

Barrak
Svodola Darkfury
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-06-30 18:38:09 UTC
Not sure why this forum has gotten so "troll-ey" lately but you can ignore anything above that sounds ridiculous.

Start in a C1 or C2 while you're learning; it's easier to scan, you usually have a k-space connection, and in the case of C1s you usually have fewer gankers coming through.

C2s will be higher traffic because there are a lot of wormhole types that connect into C2s.

You don't need a tower to start: in fact I'd advise doing day-trips until you get the hang of everything. A tower adds a whole layer of logistics that is quite frankly annoying to deal with.

Here's your order of operations:
1. Learn about what you want to do
2. Do day-trips to do anomalies or radar/mag sites that you find
3. Live in a well stocked wormhole for a week or so without a tower (so scout alt, kill ship, and a salvager on one of those two)
4. If you decide you can deal without having stations, start with a small or medium tower in an uninhabited wormhole
5. With at least a Medium Tower, preferably a Large Tower, begin developing the wormhole (POCOs, grav/ladar site operations)
6. Production of T3 or other

So far I haven't found the need to do beyond Step 5, so I'm not really sure if there are additional steps that I'm not aware of yet :) This of course gets more cash, etc. if you can do deeper quality wormholes (c4-c6), but if you're looking at solo operations, you want C3 or under.

Hope that helps,

Svodola Darkfury.

Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
Marsan
#17 - 2012-06-30 20:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsan
MadbaM wrote:


For this to work your orca must be named "I'm not Bait"



Funny my Orca is named Obvious Trap.....

PS- My advice is join a corp to explore WH.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
joes Bazooka
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-06-30 21:00:09 UTC  |  Edited by: joes Bazooka
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Not sure why this forum has gotten so "troll-ey" lately


What would you expect in a thread where all the answers to life are being asked. if the OP read some guides first, dabbled his feet in a few holes then asked some specific questions he/she did not understand then more answers would be forthcoming but to write up a thread saying whats some hint and tips? Look above at the detailed responses given when he/she asks a specific question.

RULE 1: Hide at the sun like all the other noobs.
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#19 - 2012-06-30 21:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrak
joes Bazooka wrote:
RULE 1: Hide at the sun like all the other noobs.


Thank you Angry man.

Regards
Barrak
The Painted Ones
#20 - 2012-06-30 22:02:29 UTC
Svodola Darkfury wrote:
Not sure why this forum has gotten so "troll-ey" lately but you can ignore anything above that sounds ridiculous.

Start in a C1 or C2 while you're learning; it's easier to scan, you usually have a k-space connection, and in the case of C1s you usually have fewer gankers coming through
Svodola Darkfury.



Thanks....


I am in conversation with a WH corp, but want to learn a little more before i committ myself
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