These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

TwoStep call out on SDing

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-06-29 16:04:43 UTC
Every time a cap self destructs, I smile.

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!
Eternal Error
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-06-29 17:34:27 UTC
I can agree with preventing SDing inside a bubble, but see no reason to prevent SDing while aggressed.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-06-29 18:01:12 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
Cybus Max wrote:
It should be same as logoffski if your aggressed you can't SD for 15 mins and you can't SD in a POS ( or you can't SD in bubbles???)



No, not it shouldn't. Self Destruct is there to prevent time griefing, where you get pointed, bubbled and re-aggressed to keep you there indefinitely. Thats the whole point of SD, if you get caught by assholes who are ok with idling for an hour or more while preventing you from playing the game. Everyone should have the ability to SD whenever the **** they want, except that a KM should be generated if the player was aggressed. CCP does not even have to make a lot of changes, just add Self Destruct as an involved party to the KM with the amount of damage that resulted from SDing. Simple.

Yeah. It's the loss of records that drives me crazy; if someone wishes to scuttle their ship to deny the enemy assets, that's fine.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#24 - 2012-06-30 13:28:57 UTC
I couldn't give two ***** about showing the fit of the SD'd ship. I just want the battle report to show it was there and that is was lost due to our aggression.

No trolling please
Malken
Sleiipniir
#25 - 2012-06-30 14:15:13 UTC
just the fact that you are able to blow a ship up inside the shields of a pos is wrong.

add KM when under agression timer and stop SD in pos shields.

wanna blow your ship up then go out of shields and take it like a real man, in the face smiling.

☻/ /▌ / \
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-30 14:32:09 UTC
Malken wrote:
just the fact that you are able to blow a ship up inside the shields of a pos is wrong.

add KM when under agression timer and stop SD in pos shields.

wanna blow your ship up then go out of shields and take it like a real man, in the face smiling.

I'm undecided on the SDing inside of shields part of the issue. If SDing can't happen, then invasions could become very profitable. This could push people into bigger alliances (or coalitions) with bigger fleets and exacerbate the escalation problem we've been seeing. Either there's relative peace or World War Wormhole.

It might also drive people to fight rather than SDing their entire WH, but if they're already at that point, it would probably be a massacre rather than a fight.
Joran Jackson
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#27 - 2012-06-30 14:54:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Jackson
Klarion Sythis wrote:
Malken wrote:
just the fact that you are able to blow a ship up inside the shields of a pos is wrong.

add KM when under agression timer and stop SD in pos shields.

wanna blow your ship up then go out of shields and take it like a real man, in the face smiling.

I'm undecided on the SDing inside of shields part of the issue. If SDing can't happen, then invasions could become very profitable. This could push people into bigger alliances (or coalitions) with bigger fleets and exacerbate the escalation problem we've been seeing. Either there's relative peace or World War Wormhole.

It might also drive people to fight rather than SDing their entire WH, but if they're already at that point, it would probably be a massacre rather than a fight.


What's the worst that could happen? People come and get massacred instead of sitting in their POS throwing their isk into the sun. At least a fight happens. People come and try to alpha something in siege or triage before they are cleaned up.

Or they come outside the POS and SD their capitals then which will generate killmails. I see only good things.
Cybus Max
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2012-06-30 16:40:27 UTC
Gnaw LF wrote:
Cybus Max wrote:
It should be same as logoffski if your aggressed you can't SD for 15 mins and you can't SD in a POS ( or you can't SD in bubbles???)



No, not it shouldn't. Self Destruct is there to prevent time griefing, where you get pointed, bubbled and re-aggressed to keep you there indefinitely. Thats the whole point of SD, if you get caught by assholes who are ok with idling for an hour or more while preventing you from playing the game. Everyone should have the ability to SD whenever the **** they want, except that a KM should be generated if the player was aggressed. CCP does not even have to make a lot of changes, just add Self Destruct as an involved party to the KM with the amount of damage that resulted from SDing. Simple.



this is a much better idea Gnaw as one thing i didn't consider, especially with no SD'ing in a POS it would make evicting small groups very profitable and would lead to a big depopulation in w-space or peopel being forced to merge into largers groups which will just make other issues in w-space alot worse
G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#29 - 2012-06-30 23:09:51 UTC  |  Edited by: G0hme
Its gonna be hard to find a common ground on SDing when and where. Does it seem reasonable that you can SD inside a POS without the POS taking damage from the explosion? No not really. And why are you able to initiate SD when the forcefield harmonics disallows you from doing anything else? (lock targets, change pos pw etc.)

Argueing that evicting smaller corps would suddenly become profitable? Well move to C1-C4 as C5-C6 has no room for 5man farmer corps anyway, hence the ability to move around Capitals as you see fit.

SDing while aggressed should produce a KM, no doubt about it. This should have been added yesteryear.
I would also like to see scaling SD timers. Sub-BS 1min - BS 2min - Capitals 5min - Supers 10mins.

Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD.

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#30 - 2012-07-01 04:01:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
If you guys in Exhale didn't blob every-snip- you saw with a 80 man blue fleet, maybe they wouldn't self destruct. Why should they bother wait as suffer as they are bored to death by your blob?

Post edited to remove ethnic slur.

ISD Tyrozan
QT McWhiskers
MultiPass Inc.
The 5th Seal
#31 - 2012-07-01 04:29:32 UTC  |  Edited by: QT McWhiskers
Honestly... I never understood that. If they are in a pos shield you just log them off for a little while and set a REALLY long skill train while the gankers get the tower. Then you just set up a temp pos and slowly get your caps out, if its a c5 or c6 with a good static.

Self destructing when you can have a backup plan is just dumb.


Of course self destructing while you are under attack is even dumber. These should generate killmails. That way, if you see a cap SDing inside of a pos you simply put a dic or hic on it and put the bubble up. (of course I am speaking hypothetically if they generated killmails.)
Robot Monster
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-07-01 05:02:05 UTC
No one mentioning insurance... All they need to do is create Km's when they sd and remove insurance payouts. Job done
Myz Toyou
Nekkid Inc.
#33 - 2012-07-01 10:05:21 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
If you guys in Exhale didn't blob every jew you saw with a 80 man blue fleet, maybe they wouldn't self destruct. Why should they bother wait as suffer as they are bored to death by your blob?



Cos we not as elite as you guys Roll
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-07-01 10:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
there are 3 things that need to happen:

1. Self destruct generates a KM. (This will effectively stop SDing in combat since it's the reason people do it, to avoid the loss mail.)

2. No insurance payout from SDing. (Seriously, just makes sense.)

3. No SDing inside POS shield. (We all know why.)

Quote:
Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD


^i like this actually.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Indo Nira
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-07-01 11:30:29 UTC
G0hme wrote:

Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD.



The whole point of the pod is to keep your body and your implants safe when your ship blows up, whether it's blown up by someone of self destructed. If you just want to get an easy kill on a pod get a hic and you're done with that pilot for a while.
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-07-01 12:52:34 UTC
Indo Nira wrote:
G0hme wrote:

Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD.



The whole point of the pod is to keep your body and your implants safe when your ship blows up, whether it's blown up by someone of self destructed. If you just want to get an easy kill on a pod get a hic and you're done with that pilot for a while.

It's not about the KM on the pod, nor even all that relevant to people who SD in combat. It's to make it more difficult to burn your POS to the ground from the inside when under siege.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#37 - 2012-07-01 15:33:16 UTC
Klarion Sythis wrote:
Indo Nira wrote:
G0hme wrote:

Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD.



The whole point of the pod is to keep your body and your implants safe when your ship blows up, whether it's blown up by someone of self destructed. If you just want to get an easy kill on a pod get a hic and you're done with that pilot for a while.

It's not about the KM on the pod, nor even all that relevant to people who SD in combat. It's to make it more difficult to burn your POS to the ground from the inside when under siege.


So what you are advocating is more isk for blobbers and the eviction of every small alliance/corp entity from wspace for isk?
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-07-01 15:47:56 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
So what you are advocating is more isk for blobbers and the eviction of every small alliance/corp entity from wspace for isk?


No, pretty much the opposite.

Klarion Sythis wrote:
Malken wrote:
just the fact that you are able to blow a ship up inside the shields of a pos is wrong.

add KM when under agression timer and stop SD in pos shields.

wanna blow your ship up then go out of shields and take it like a real man, in the face smiling.

I'm undecided on the SDing inside of shields part of the issue. If SDing can't happen, then invasions could become very profitable. This could push people into bigger alliances (or coalitions) with bigger fleets and exacerbate the escalation problem we've been seeing. Either there's relative peace or World War Wormhole.

It might also drive people to fight rather than SDing their entire WH, but if they're already at that point, it would probably be a massacre rather than a fight.


The point I was making about not being able to burn the POS down around you under siege was to clarify what that point of the debate is really about. Not advocate that opinion.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#39 - 2012-07-01 16:12:04 UTC
Messoroz wrote:
If you guys in Exhale didn't blob every jew you saw with a 80 man blue fleet, maybe they wouldn't self destruct. Why should they bother wait as suffer as they are bored to death by your blob?


This post makes absolutely no sense (and whats with the Jew comment? Racism isn't cool, man)... when there's huge blobs then taking them out before the timer is easy peasy.

In general, I think SDing as a way to escape griefing (indefinitely pointed, etc) or as a way to deny the aggressors loot is fine. What bothers me though is that there's absolutely no record of it being involved in the fight. Either make the timer on capitals longer so they can't just quickly explode when things go wrong or add some additional info somewhere to say extra ships were involved and lost (even if it isn't a full killmail showing aggressors, fits, etc)
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-07-01 16:43:05 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
there are 3 things that need to happen:

1. Self destruct generates a KM. (This will effectively stop SDing in combat since it's the reason people do it, to avoid the loss mail.)

2. No insurance payout from SDing. (Seriously, just makes sense.)

3. No SDing inside POS shield. (We all know why.)

Quote:
Furthermore, SDing should kill your pod aswell, if your pod is tied to the overall stats and effects of your ship then the SD sequence should be aswell. Eject and the timer stops, go down with the ship and lose your pod. This could also be considered a compromise towards SDing inside a POS as you will lose 1 pod pr ship you SD


^i like this actually.



I would agree with 1and 2. I don't see the big issue with self destructing inside the pos shield. But more importantly, it seems that 1 and 2 would be relatively easy to implement since it doesn't change how sd works, just the aftermath. Implementing 3 would require changing the act of sd.

And wait you can set the self destruct and not eject? Had no idea.