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Do the miner bump...

Author
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2012-06-29 14:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alaya Carrier
Did not think it was possible to cram so much bad posting and suggestions in one thread.

Glad we have the "I circumvent forum ban and keep my main in my signature to show it off" guy plus the "I am denser than Angela Merkel" other forum white knights to help us accomplish that.


Let me give a real useful suggestions to miners: mining is a "numbers over time" game. You plan profitability by taking losses as cost of business. With basic precautions you can happily mine in actual useful setups raking in far more profits than losses due to ganks.

If you are so adverse to ever lose a mining ship, then play Asteroids, not EvE.
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#142 - 2012-06-29 14:21:45 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Andoria Thara wrote:
I was talking about the distance between the Orca and one Hulk, not a group of hulks.

With the Orca bonuses to the survey scanner range, you can scan the entire belt and then broadcast targets to your hulk pilots.


How do you see distance from asteroid to Hulk from survey scanner?



My Orca is usually parked within 2500m so I can dump ore into the corp hangar...


Tractor beam, dump the roid scanner. A real miner mines everything to the last drop.

The thing is not to make it 'easy' for the gankers, so always spread out.
But, meh, what I've seen no-one does this, so cluster up and give the gankers an easy big lump of targets all in the same tidy spot.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-06-29 14:28:10 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
The thing is not to make it 'easy' for the gankers, so always spread out.
But, meh, what I've seen no-one does this, so cluster up and give the gankers an easy big lump of targets all in the same tidy spot.


This is mostly because hisec belts are small. You can pretty much mine everything on belt from one spot. Also can flippers like this because if miners put ore straight into Orca's corp hangar they can't bait and get easy kills.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#144 - 2012-06-29 14:28:34 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:

Tractor beam, dump the roid scanner. A real miner mines everything to the last drop.

The thing is not to make it 'easy' for the gankers, so always spread out.
But, meh, what I've seen no-one does this, so cluster up and give the gankers an easy big lump of targets all in the same tidy spot.


My Orca sits around 280k EHP, if someone wants to gank it, they'll need to bring more than a couple catalysts. If they go through that much trouble, more power to them.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#145 - 2012-06-29 14:32:25 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:

This is mostly because hisec belts are small. You can pretty much mine everything on belt from one spot. Also can flippers like this because if miners put ore straight into Orca's corp hangar they can't bait and get easy kills.


This too.

Another thing to mention is dead rats. Even if mining directly in to an Orca, a "can flipper" can steal loot from one of your rat wrecks, which is an aggressive act.

Just hope you don't have your drones out on aggressive mode when that happens :)
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#146 - 2012-06-29 14:53:34 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field


25M faction mod in paper tanked Hulk...



Or you can use a meta resist amp.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

15th Century Portrait
Doomheim
#147 - 2012-06-29 14:55:04 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
You can also counterbump the bumper. Or move to another belt, or system, or etc. etc. etc.

counterbump? how does that work? are we talking about trying to deflect a bullet with a bullet? that sounds... unlikely.

This halaima guy is theoretically avoiding a griefing ban by saying what he's doing has a financial purpose. So theoretically CCP won't stop him. Sure you could warp away, if a cloaked ship wasn't on a head-on collision course. But even if you warp away every time someone warps to the belt (which is what you'd have to do for everyone you don't know), the bumper accomplishes the same goal of denying the miner a chance to mine without actually having to bump him. Leaving to go to another belt will only result in a change of scenery for the Bump Fest.

If someone really wanted to press the issue and get CCP to clarify their position, that person would copy the Halaima model and go to Uedama or Niarja, put up cans at the gates with following note: You must pay [Insert Name] 50 million ISK to move freighters through here, otherwise we'll be bumping you off your alignment and preventing you from flying through. (okay so it would take a few cans). Then we'd see something interesting stuff.
Betrinna Cantis
#148 - 2012-06-29 17:03:39 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
The Bumping mechanic made sense with the limitations of 2003 computers, in 2012 CCP can do better.


What? Huh?


Guess I need to spell it out ... ships should collide and cause damage to each other. Not bounce off like rubber balls.

Volkswagon going 120 kp/h slams into the side of a Semi truck sitting at a stop light.... what happens to the volkswagon???
If you bump a ship with a ship 1/4 its size said ship should explode on impact.

Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares.....

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#149 - 2012-06-29 17:13:34 UTC
15th Century Portrait wrote:

are you saying the miner should warp away if anyone gets anywhere near him? or warps to belt? time to warp may be minimal, but there is still the question of when to warp at all. if the miner is constantly warping away, the bumper accomplishes the same goal without actually executing a bump.


If the target is moving fast at zero transversal then he is going for a bump. Warp out.


Personally I just brick tank the bugger and laugh as my drones jam it.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#150 - 2012-06-29 19:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
An aligned and unfitted Hulk, from a dead stop, takes ~17 seconds to spin up it's warp drive and go into warp.


As previously pointed out, you should always be aligned at 3/4 speed for instant warp out ability. Mining/strip lasers have different ranges for a reason, and it isn't for being able to reach more roids while sitting still.

Warping out has always been your best defense, particularly if you use your ability to set standings and share intel so that you can make educated decisions on when this action would be necessary.

If you do have to warp out, and are sure an attempt was made, set your standings and share the information. You do have an intel channel for mining right? RIGHT?

If known gankers/bumpers come into your system, go to another system.

Every other ship in the game must make these same decisions, regardless of size. The Carrier in an anom, the battleship ratting in a belt, mission runners scanned out while running their missions... if someone suspicious warps to your location you must make a decision as to the level of threat and decide if it is wise to warp out so as not to be trapped and overwhelmed by the hostiles friends.

Miners are being asked to follow the game mechanic realities that every other player in the game faces.

Soon you will have even more options for survivability. However if you fail to take the simple steps already available to you, it is doubtful that the new mining barges will change the situation significantly.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Pipa Porto
#151 - 2012-06-29 20:02:15 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Why is the Orca 40km away when the Hulk isn't moving more than 7m/s?


"250% bonus to tractor beam range"

Tell me one good reason why I should ignore that.


Because the normal range is fine. Your Hulks are aligned. They will escape a smartbomb gank.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#152 - 2012-06-29 20:04:24 UTC
15th Century Portrait wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
You can also counterbump the bumper. Or move to another belt, or system, or etc. etc. etc.

counterbump? how does that work? are we talking about trying to deflect a bullet with a bullet? that sounds... unlikely.

This halaima guy is theoretically avoiding a griefing ban by saying what he's doing has a financial purpose. So theoretically CCP won't stop him. Sure you could warp away, if a cloaked ship wasn't on a head-on collision course. But even if you warp away every time someone warps to the belt (which is what you'd have to do for everyone you don't know), the bumper accomplishes the same goal of denying the miner a chance to mine without actually having to bump him. Leaving to go to another belt will only result in a change of scenery for the Bump Fest.

If someone really wanted to press the issue and get CCP to clarify their position, that person would copy the Halaima model and go to Uedama or Niarja, put up cans at the gates with following note: You must pay [Insert Name] 50 million ISK to move freighters through here, otherwise we'll be bumping you off your alignment and preventing you from flying through. (okay so it would take a few cans). Then we'd see something interesting stuff.


They Decloak 2500m off of you. The fastest they can be doing is like 600m/s before they decloak. You'll have plenty of time to warp out.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2012-06-29 21:39:19 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field


25M faction mod in paper tanked Hulk...


It costs 7M in Jita.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

Pipa Porto
#154 - 2012-06-30 02:16:52 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field


25M faction mod in paper tanked Hulk...


It costs 7M in Jita.


Shh, he'll come gank us in his 80k EHP cruisers (He still owes us 6 fits).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Antisocial Malkavian
Antisocial Malkavians
#155 - 2012-06-30 02:45:00 UTC
Kyle Ward wrote:
Minmatar Freedom wrote:
Cpt Roghie wrote:
Uhm... I fail to see the point. Are you moaning about bumping being OP, do you want it nerfed... Are you simply stating a point? I'm lost.


I'm stating a point.

The argument that "if miners just protected themselves, they wouldn't get shot" is irrelevant because there's no way to protect yourself once bumping gets involved.


Miners aren't supposed to protect themselves, they're supposed to pay the goonies for a mining pass...

Cool


THEN they come here and ***** when theyre killed by them anyways and the guy you bought the pass from says "Oh crap, I forgot to tell him"

Go mine in 0.0. Its safer

And, isn't sanity really just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you're good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit.

Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
#156 - 2012-06-30 03:24:03 UTC
Betrinna Cantis wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
The Bumping mechanic made sense with the limitations of 2003 computers, in 2012 CCP can do better.


What? Huh?


Guess I need to spell it out ... ships should collide and cause damage to each other. Not bounce off like rubber balls.

Volkswagon going 120 kp/h slams into the side of a Semi truck sitting at a stop light.... what happens to the volkswagon???
If you bump a ship with a ship 1/4 its size said ship should explode on impact.



I think It would be funny to be exiting warp at a gate and see an explosion and a pod show up on overview only to find out someone MWD'd an inty into my freighter.

Negative, picking inty parts out of the engine intakes. but I guess that is what my crew is for.

EVE is like swimming on a beach in shark infested waters,  There is however a catch...  The EVE Beach you also have to wonder which fellow swimmer will try and eat you before the sharks.

Pipa Porto
#157 - 2012-06-30 03:28:16 UTC
Viktor Fyretracker wrote:
Betrinna Cantis wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Sentamon wrote:
The Bumping mechanic made sense with the limitations of 2003 computers, in 2012 CCP can do better.


What? Huh?


Guess I need to spell it out ... ships should collide and cause damage to each other. Not bounce off like rubber balls.

Volkswagon going 120 kp/h slams into the side of a Semi truck sitting at a stop light.... what happens to the volkswagon???
If you bump a ship with a ship 1/4 its size said ship should explode on impact.



I think It would be funny to be exiting warp at a gate and see an explosion and a pod show up on overview only to find out someone MWD'd an inty into my freighter.

Negative, picking inty parts out of the engine intakes. but I guess that is what my crew is for.


Or we'll just start MWDing things with more EHP that your Freighter into it until the Freighter explodes.

Bump damage goes both ways. Pirate

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#158 - 2012-06-30 03:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Pipa Porto wrote:
Because the normal range is fine. Your Hulks are aligned. They will escape a smartbomb gank.
…also, let's talk about that mythical smartbomb gank.

A full rack of large T2 smartbombs does 2400 damage per pulse. In the 20 seconds it takes for CONCORD to respond in the deepest 0.5-sec, you can get off 3 or maaaaybe 4 such pulses, for a total of 7,200 / 9,600 damage (in 0.7–0.6, that third and pulse are pretty much impossible, and above 0.7, it's questionable if the ganker will get off more than one or two). If the ganker wants to keep pulsing after CONCORD arrives, he will have to fit pretty much every last midslot with cap boosters and be very precise in his timing, at which point he might be able to get two more pulses in there for a total of 12,000–14,400 damage.

A completely unfitted Hulk stands a fair chance of surviving such an attack— that's how dangerous it is.

This means you need at least two or three such suicide smartbombers to have a fair chance of taking out… well… anything, really. Two problems immediately arise from this: you must manage to warp all ships in precisely enough to cover the same ships with their piddling 6km range and yet not bump each other out of position. Oh, and if pyfa is to be believed (which, admittedly, is doubtful), each such ship will set you back close to 250M ISK. Congratulations — the gank costs three times more than the victim's loss and the chances of catching more than one ship is slim (and requires the victims to be pretty darn stupid to begin with)… oh, and you're still not assured of destroying even one of the miners.
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#159 - 2012-06-30 04:12:10 UTC
my hulk has 21k hp 70+ resists across the board and mines at 5k m3 per cycle? i dont see whats so hard about defending and mining well in 1 complete package (of course i havent actually equiped/flown the siege warfare link thingo on my alt yet either, up to siege warfare spec 4 now)
Ron Maudieu
#160 - 2012-06-30 04:16:08 UTC
I can see it now... tractor beam repulsion module... lol