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Do the miner bump...
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2012-06-28 22:36:06 UTC
Minmatar Freedom wrote:
TLDR: You cant protect against bumping.
Short claim deserves short answer:

Incorrect.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-28 22:38:34 UTC
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:

Is it doable? Yes.


Numbers, please?

Not that I doubt you personally, but there are lots of things claimed as universal truths around here that really reflect only the most narrow of circumstances.
Josef Djugashvilis
#23 - 2012-06-28 22:48:46 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Minmatar Freedom wrote:
Cpt Roghie wrote:
Uhm... I fail to see the point. Are you moaning about bumping being OP, do you want it nerfed... Are you simply stating a point? I'm lost.


I'm stating a point.

The argument that "if miners just protected themselves, they wouldn't get shot" is irrelevant because there's no way to protect yourself once bumping gets involved.


Enter warp before they manage to get the bump?

Also fit a tank.


Please feel free to post this mythical gank proof fit for Hulks.


It does not have to be gank proof, just good enough that the gankers go for someone else.


A Hulk simply cannot be made gank proof.

The gankers can just bring one more ship to the party. In fact, one could argue that a well fit Hulk could just make them more determined to gank said Hulk.

There is nothing wrong with ganking Hulks. What is foolish is to pretend that it is the fault of the miner for not fitting his ship correctly.

This is not a signature.
Pipa Porto
#24 - 2012-06-28 22:49:33 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Minmatar Freedom wrote:
Cpt Roghie wrote:
Uhm... I fail to see the point. Are you moaning about bumping being OP, do you want it nerfed... Are you simply stating a point? I'm lost.


I'm stating a point.

The argument that "if miners just protected themselves, they wouldn't get shot" is irrelevant because there's no way to protect yourself once bumping gets involved.


Enter warp before they manage to get the bump?

Also fit a tank.


Please feel free to post this mythical gank proof fit for Hulks.


[Hulk x2]
High Slots:
Stuff

Low Slots:
Stuff

Rigs:
CPU stuff

Midslots:
4x Meta 4 webs.

Mining aligned at 6m/s

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2012-06-28 22:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
A Hulk simply cannot be made gank proof.
It can be made just as gank proof as any other ship.

Quote:
The gankers can just bring one more ship to the party.
No, they can't, because if they do, they will not be able to afford their habit (not to mention that, contrary to popular victim belief, they are limited by simple numbers).
Pipa Porto
#26 - 2012-06-28 22:52:04 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:

Is it doable? Yes.


Numbers, please?

Not that I doubt you personally, but there are lots of things claimed as universal truths around here that really reflect only the most narrow of circumstances.


Align up, Align Left, Align Down, Align Right, repeat.

5 steps.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-06-28 22:54:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Simetraz
Irrelevant, 17 seconds is more then enough time to kill a hulk.

This comes up from time to time mainly about frigates bumping capitals, never heard of anyone taking this argument down the hulk path before.

It all comes down to extra server power to do calculations for something that doesn't add enough to the game to bother with.
A - you remove bumping
B - you add in damage based on PE & KE.
C - leave it alone.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Josef Djugashvilis
#28 - 2012-06-28 22:55:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
A Hulk simply cannot be made gank proof.
It can be made just as gank proof as any other ship.

Quote:
The gankers can just bring one more ship to the party.
No, they can't, because if they do, they will not be able to afford their habit (not to mention that, contrary to popular victim belief, there are a limited number of them).


I have never suggested that a Hulk can, or should be gank proof.

Yes they can - most ganking is done for fun, any profit is just a bonus.

This is not a signature.
Pipa Porto
#29 - 2012-06-28 22:55:36 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


A Hulk simply cannot be made gank proof.

The gankers can just bring one more ship to the party. In fact, one could argue that a well fit Hulk could just make them more determined to gank said Hulk.

There is nothing wrong with ganking Hulks. What is foolish is to pretend that it is the fault of the miner for not fitting his ship correctly.



That's true of Every single ship in the game (that can be found in HS for tautological reasons). The wrong question to ask is "Can it be ganked" because the answer is yes (but so can my 1m EHP [1.7m vs Quake] Damnation). The right question is "Can it be ganked profitably. And a properly fit Hulk cannot be ganked profitably (in .5 it's a breakeven proposition). A properly fit Hulk that's properly supported is unprofitable anywhere.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#30 - 2012-06-28 22:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Simetraz wrote:
Irrelevant, 17 seconds is more then enough time to kill a hulk.
Incorrect. Killing a tanked Hulk in 17 seconds requires a damage output of ~2000 DPS, which costs a bit to generate…

…and of course, there's nothing to say that they'll have as much as 17 seconds.

Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I have never suggested that a Hulk can, or should be gank proof.
Then stop bringing it up as an argument. It's foolish to not tank your Hulk, when it's a simple measure that goes a long way to protect the ship.

Quote:
Yes they can - most ganking is done for fun, any profit is just a bonus.
…so they'll pick a target that is sure to blow up. I.e. not the tanked Hulk.
Pipa Porto
#31 - 2012-06-28 22:58:33 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
A Hulk simply cannot be made gank proof.
It can be made just as gank proof as any other ship.

Quote:
The gankers can just bring one more ship to the party.
No, they can't, because if they do, they will not be able to afford their habit (not to mention that, contrary to popular victim belief, there are a limited number of them).


I have never suggested that a Hulk can, or should be gank proof.

Yes they can - most ganking is done for fun, any profit is just a bonus.


If you don't mind that a Hulk can be ganked, what's the problem?

It can't be ganked profitably if you fit it well, and it can't be ganked at all if you fly it well.

Sounds good to me.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-06-28 23:06:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Irrelevant, 17 seconds is more then enough time to kill a hulk.
Incorrect. Killing a tanked Hulk in 17 seconds requires a damage output of ~2000 DPS, which costs a bit to generate…

…and of course, there's nothing to say that they'll have as much as 17 seconds.


Now your feeding a Troll if anything this is a stealth Nerf bumping for other ships thread.

Bumping a Hulk is no different then bumping any other ship in game, and it isn't going to get special attention.
They are ALL subject to the same Issue.

IF you can bump a Titan then who cares about a Hulk or any other sub capital class ship.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
15th Century Portrait
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-06-28 23:09:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Minmatar Freedom wrote:
TLDR: You cant protect against bumping.
Short claim deserves short answer:

Incorrect.

please elaborate. what is the counter to bumping?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2012-06-28 23:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Simetraz wrote:
Bumping a Hulk is no different then bumping any other ship in game, and it isn't going to get special attention.
They are ALL subject to the same Issue.
Well, there is one difference: the Hulk can do its business in a near bump-proof state whereas other common bump targets will often not have that option…

15th Century Portrait wrote:
please elaborate. what is the counter to bumping?
Warping out (which is what you want to do anyway if it's a prelude to a gank).
Raiz Nhell
PeregrineXII
#35 - 2012-06-28 23:21:33 UTC
Another miner saying that something needs to be changed in my favour cause they can't adapt...

I mine (I'm not proud)...
And when I do orbit or zigzag at 3/4 speed aligned to whatever I like and when I go into the last cycle I align to the station... Anyone appears on grid I'm goneski...

Gankers going to gank, can't do much about that, once your locked its going to hurt... But you should never get bumped, there are simple things you can do to avoid it...


There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.
Pipa Porto
#36 - 2012-06-28 23:22:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:

15th Century Portrait wrote:
please elaborate. what is the counter to bumping?
Warping out (which is what you want to do anyway if it's a prelude to a gank).


INB4 17s to Warp.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
15th Century Portrait
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-06-28 23:28:12 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
Bumping a Hulk is no different then bumping any other ship in game, and it isn't going to get special attention.
They are ALL subject to the same Issue.
Well, there is one difference: the Hulk can do its business in a near bump-proof state whereas other common bump targets will often not have that option…

15th Century Portrait wrote:
please elaborate. what is the counter to bumping?
Warping out (which is what you want to do anyway if it's a prelude to a gank).

i think the OP is referring to bumping for the purpose of keeping you from warping. how do you warp away while you're being bumped? isn't that the core of the issue?
Raiz Nhell
PeregrineXII
#38 - 2012-06-28 23:28:36 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Tippia wrote:

15th Century Portrait wrote:
please elaborate. what is the counter to bumping?
Warping out (which is what you want to do anyway if it's a prelude to a gank).


INB4 17s to Warp.



When should it ever take your complete align time to get to warp... No matter what ship your in...
If it does your doing it wrong, cause your stationary or not aligned and at speed...

There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#39 - 2012-06-28 23:30:56 UTC
15th Century Portrait wrote:
i think the OP is referring to bumping for the purpose of keeping you from warping. how do you warp away while you're being bumped? isn't that the core of the issue?
You warp away before being bumped by being aligned, since that causes the warp-out time to be zero seconds, leaving very very very little time for the bumper to get the bump in.

He could try to use a cloaked ship, but even then it's avoidable if you're really quick (and if they go to those lengths, they've rather earned a successful bump should you be too slow on the draw).
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-06-28 23:36:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
15th Century Portrait wrote:
i think the OP is referring to bumping for the purpose of keeping you from warping. how do you warp away while you're being bumped? isn't that the core of the issue?
You warp away before being bumped by being aligned, since that causes the warp-out time to be zero seconds, leaving very very very little time for the bumper to get the bump in.

He could try to use a cloaked ship, but even then it's avoidable if you're really quick (and if they go to those lengths, they've rather earned a successful bump should you be too slow on the draw).


I can't believe you just said that in regards to miners LolLolLol


EVERYBODY KNOWS