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The War of Lies, and the Merchants of Death
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#81 - 2012-06-28 19:52:08 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I don't think he's a pawn, Ms. Jenneth. If he were, I doubt he would be quite so insistant that the Jovian's and their brainchild CONCORD need to have their influence curbed, nor would we be working towards making that dream a reality.


Did you hear that, just now?

It sounded ... a little like ...

... the largest and most sophisticated intelligence network in human history ...

... snickering.

Believe what you like, Mr. Thessalonia, but you may want to keep an open (and free-willed, if possible) mind, just in case.


I'm afraid your attempts to sow doubt in my mind will be unsuccessful, Ms. Jenneth. I've spent relative decades since my conversion thinking of my decision and its consequences, and I have thousands of minds behind me providing additional weight to my thoughts. I've gone over the logical process of my decision, considered the consequences and the meaning behind it. The chances of you making an argument towards me that I have not already made to myself are quite slim.

You will likely not believe me when I say that I made my decision on my own (I won't dignify the use of the term 'free-will' in this case through its use) but to be quite frank?

Your belief is not required.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#82 - 2012-06-28 19:59:52 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:


With all respect, Morwen, the "game" is more than just the militias. The militias are merely one field on which the "game" is played.

Also, there is more than one path to opposing the game. That you and countless others can't seem to realize that not everyone who flies in the militias is trying to accomplish the same thing is of no concern to me, I've dealt with the countless criticisms, accusations and generalizations from the start and will continue to do so.




Indeed.

Many of the militia are just pirates.
Uraniae Fehrnah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-06-28 20:24:42 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

With all respect, Morwen, the "game" is more than just the militias. The militias are merely one field on which the "game" is played.

Also, there is more than one path to opposing the game. That you and countless others can't seem to realize that not everyone who flies in the militias is trying to accomplish the same thing is of no concern to me, I've dealt with the countless criticisms, accusations and generalizations from the start and will continue to do so.



Quite right, quite right. The game is so much more than just the militias, the militias just seem to be the novel new board on which to move the pieces about. That much I'll very much agree with.

However, with the game being so much larger, so much more intricate, there is something that might need to be said of it. It is still a game like all others, with players and pieces. Some pieces fall, other pieces are pushed across the board masterfully. Some players move their pieces to and fro to capture new areas or to block an attack. Some players sacrifice a piece here or there so that another can make a more lasting impression on the game. Some players even move their pieces contrary to the rest of the game, those pieces are shuffled about in such a way that sometimes they come to think they are not pieces at all but new players instead.
Verone
Veto Corp
#84 - 2012-06-28 20:24:47 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Maybe someone else will set you straight. I did not become what they call a "war hero" for nothing. It took the blood of many for that, in fact.


The most significant part of becoming a "war hero" is that one doesn't have to take the time themselves to emphasize that they are one. It's a title earned by reputation, and reputation alone. It's not a title earned by self proclamation and public boasting.

There are many more that have done far more for the Federation and don't have an overinflated opinion of themselves and their self importance, and whom are humble enough to simply comment that as a professional, skilled and trained officer of the Federal Military they were simply doing their duty.

If you think that by any means the measure of becoming a war hero relates to how much blood laces your hands and is spilled at your feet, you're sadly mistaken. Trust me, after taking enough lives with my own purpose in mind to be able to be wanted for charges of genocide and mass murder, I'm in a good position to say that regardless of our motivation, what we do as capsuleers is neither noble or heroic.

We do the same, simply for different reasons, and as a means to different ends.

The sooner you realise this, the sooner you'll be a competent leader and an effective soldier, and not a public relations tool branded with advertising for the latest fashions and carbonated soft drinks.

Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM
Faelan Maris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-06-28 21:27:44 UTC
Verone wrote:
[....]and not a public relations tool branded with advertising for the latest fashions and carbonated soft drinks.

In Himself's defense, I am not aware that he is either of those. I believe that it is the young daughter that peddles such consumer wares in that family. Or did I miss something?
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-06-28 21:30:24 UTC
Verone wrote:
and not a public relations tool branded with advertising for the latest fashions and carbonated soft drinks.

That would be a professionalism from a gallentean point of view Lol

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
Khimi Harar
#87 - 2012-06-28 21:36:32 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
I will use my status to further the cause outlined above, but as I am still a soldier, I have my obligations. The corporation-run State is still an enemy, and they will remain an enemy as long as capitalism is at their core. One might say capitalism is also fundamental to the Federation but, last I checked, the ability to choose one's own fate is at the core of a democratic society.


Can you explain to me why you think capitalism and the ability to chose one's own fate cannot co-exist?
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#88 - 2012-06-28 22:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I'm afraid your attempts to sow doubt in my mind will be unsuccessful, Ms. Jenneth. I've spent relative decades since my conversion thinking of my decision and its consequences, and I have thousands of minds behind me providing additional weight to my thoughts. I've gone over the logical process of my decision, considered the consequences and the meaning behind it. The chances of you making an argument towards me that I have not already made to myself are quite slim.


And yet you present me with your decision-making process in place of the logic you ultimately found persuasive.

... You do realize that you've just declared that you are confident of your conclusions because you discussed this in a committee?

Quote:
You will likely not believe me when I say that I made my decision on my own (I won't dignify the use of the term 'free-will' in this case through its use) but to be quite frank?

Your belief is not required.


Oh, I'm quite willing to believe that to be a possibility. There are enough zealots in the world allergic to examining their own assumptions too closely that it seems only natural that a whole network of brains might merely create one more.

... Though I do find it a little unlikely that Kuvakei would permit such an entity to persist in his service without some limits on its behavior. Crowds are notoriously fickle.
Verone
Veto Corp
#89 - 2012-06-28 22:52:09 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Verone wrote:
and not a public relations tool branded with advertising for the latest fashions and carbonated soft drinks.

That would be a professionalism from a gallentean point of view Lol


Damn my genetics. Damn them to hell.

Verone CEO & Executor Veto Corp WWW.VETO-CORP.COM
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#90 - 2012-06-29 13:04:29 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Ava Starfire wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:
What separates us from mindlessness is our capacity to oppose the game.


So... oppose the game?


Have I not stated time and again that this is exactly what I'm doing? Have you not observed so for yourself?



Yes, you have, and yes, I have.

It is out of respect that I said it, my friend, not maliciousness. It is possible to remain in the militia, fight in a defensive capacity, and divorce oneself from all those things which make the militias more harmful than helpful. I trust you can do this, with grace and courage.

It is still, however, the militia.

If I work for an Amarrian holder, seeing to it that all of his slaves are healthy and happy, that they have full bellies, clean clothes, and toys for their children, I am still, at the end of the day, working for an Amarrian holder.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-06-29 13:30:43 UTC
Ava Starfire wrote:

If I work for an Amarrian holder, seeing to it that all of his slaves are healthy and happy, that they have full bellies, clean clothes, and toys for their children, I am still, at the end of the day, working for an Amarrian holder.


Indeed so and it is with wisdom that you make this clear.

There is honor and merit in this type of duty. Even if you are never able to liberate them from slavery, your kindness and your integrity will be what they remember most - even while others would criticize you for your employer. You have summarized my struggle aptly.

~Malcolm Khross
Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#92 - 2012-06-29 14:01:30 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
Ava Starfire wrote:

If I work for an Amarrian holder, seeing to it that all of his slaves are healthy and happy, that they have full bellies, clean clothes, and toys for their children, I am still, at the end of the day, working for an Amarrian holder.


Indeed so and it is with wisdom that you make this clear.

There is honor and merit in this type of duty. Even if you are never able to liberate them from slavery, your kindness and your integrity will be what they remember most - even while others would criticize you for your employer. You have summarized my struggle aptly.


There is no dishonor in working for a good cause.

I suppose the rub is determing what "a good cause" is.

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#93 - 2012-06-29 17:50:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Diana Kim
deleted because of misunderstanding

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#94 - 2012-07-08 08:58:07 UTC
I love all these little pieces patting themselves on the back for being on the board.

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#95 - 2012-07-08 13:21:31 UTC
Gorion Wassenar wrote:
I love all these little pieces patting themselves on the back for being on the board.


Indeed...

So much for "Self-Determination", it's a noble Ideal but in the end you find that you nothing more than a slave to the cause.
Every day I find myself rejoicing in that I surrendered my struggle and submitted myself to my Amarr Patron. It would seem that the only "choice" given in this existence is your choice of masters to whom you serve. I do believe that I have chosen wisely.

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Benjamin Eastwood
#96 - 2012-07-08 17:26:52 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

It is fully possible to support the State while not agreeing with everything it does as a collective body, that is rather the point of having a collective panel of leadership from differing viewpoints. That we Caldari are capable of putting aside the individual in order to better serve the community as a whole is something we are quite proud of it, in spite of your attempts to decry it.


It is impossible to explain this to a Gallentean narcissist.

"Endless ISK, the sinews of war"
Amaki Mai
Doomheim
#97 - 2012-07-09 08:38:59 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
So much for "Self-Determination", it's a noble Ideal but in the end you find that you nothing more than a slave to the cause.Every day I find myself rejoicing in that I surrendered my struggle and submitted myself to my Amarr Patron. It would seem that the only "choice" given in this existence is your choice of masters to whom you serve. I do believe that I have chosen wisely.


I have used the autonomy granted to Capsuleers to choose to leave the service of masters whose goals I deemed unworthy. My path has been painful, because it is SO hard to find a worthy master and because the decision to forsake an unworthy one is so easy for a Capsuleer.

I have always wondered if I would have been happier had I simply elected to remain loyal to my first master.